Anastasiia Gubanova | Page 12 | Golden Skate

Anastasiia Gubanova

sjid

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Can she maybe not do a lutz in the SP? She just can't get that program right.

I have thought about recurrent mistakes like the lutz that seem impossible to correct. How can a skater do well in one program (FS or SP) with the same elements that they crash with in the other program? Why is this condition so hard to fix? There was a discussion about two years ago in another thread that focused on skaters' reliance on auto-pilot during performances. Sports psychologists know that athletes in many areas, especially areas involving performance such as figure skating, do not think while competing. Skaters often talk about this mental state of being on auto-pilot. Some claim that they can't perform if they think. It would follow that if there were some thoughts that interrupt the auto-pilot sequence, then the skater would make a mistake at that point. Skaters also talk about success in practice but failure in competition. That again supports the auto-pilot disruption theory. Recurrent mistakes of this type have little to do with physical ability (the skater is okay in practice and okay in another program), it is some psychological disruption that is triggered by a specific thought or circumstance. Think of it as a bug in software. The more this happens, the more the skater is spooked and the more likely it will happen again. I have no experience with athletes, these ideas seem to fit what we know about these recurring, contradictory, difficult-to-fix mistakes. It stands to reason that this ought to be corrected as early as possible. In Nastya's case, some of her mistakes may be related to disrupted autopilot, and some are related to technique. She is fortunate there is plenty of time to work it out.
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Can she maybe not do a lutz in the SP? She just can't get that program right.

It's crazy because the swan program is amongst the best programs choreographed this season. Hopefully she gets more quality programs because skating from the heart is not something easily taught and hard to replicate. If she can find another vehicle to express herself with we'll all be in for a treat. :yes:
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Her best performance was Marseilles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIsRr57IXKA This was her first competition with Zagitova, Nastya set a world record which lasted only a few minutes when Zagitova scored higher. She and her coaches then added about 30 seconds to the program for competitive purposes, there was an in-progress presentation of this longer program at Russian Nationals. .

The Nationals program was for seniors so they added time (required) which was basically the choreographed sequence and had to go back to the junior program (shorter version) for this event.
 

Miller

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
I have thought about recurrent mistakes like the lutz that seem impossible to correct. How can a skater do well in one program (FS or SP) with the same elements that they crash with in the other program? Why is this condition so hard to fix? There was a discussion about two years ago in another thread that focused on skaters' reliance on auto-pilot during performances. Sports psychologists know that athletes in many areas, especially areas involving performance such as figure skating, do not think while competing. Skaters often talk about this mental state of being on auto-pilot. Some claim that they can't perform if they think. It would follow that if there were some thoughts that interrupt the auto-pilot sequence, then the skater would make a mistake at that point. Skaters also talk about success in practice but failure in competition. That again supports the auto-pilot disruption theory. Recurrent mistakes of this type have little to do with physical ability (the skater is okay in practice and okay in another program), it is some psychological disruption that is triggered by a specific thought or circumstance. Think of it as a bug in software. The more this happens, the more the skater is spooked and the more likely it will happen again. I have no experience with athletes, these ideas seem to fit what we know about these recurring, contradictory, difficult-to-fix mistakes. It stands to reason that this ought to be corrected as early as possible. In Nastya's case, some of her mistakes may be related to disrupted autopilot, and some are related to technique. She is fortunate there is plenty of time to work it out.

Wonder if she should go down the 3F-3T route, at least temporarily. She's UR'd the 3T part in both Nationals but it was in the 2nd half. How about something like 3F-3T / 2A-3T-2T / 3Lz-2T / 3Lz etc. Still 2 * 3Lzs, but no need to worry about combo parts, can just concentrate on Lutz as effectively a solo jump (break your auto-pilot theory - seems plausible), plus skaters of her quality can put a 2T on just about anything. Once Lutz is hopefully much better, revert back.
 

sjid

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Wonder if she should go down the 3F-3T route, at least temporarily. She's UR'd the 3T part in both Nationals but it was in the 2nd half. How about something like 3F-3T / 2A-3T-2T / 3Lz-2T / 3Lz etc. Still 2 * 3Lzs, but no need to worry about combo parts, can just concentrate on Lutz as effectively a solo jump (break your auto-pilot theory - seems plausible), plus skaters of her quality can put a 2T on just about anything. Once Lutz is hopefully much better, revert back.

That is brilliant. Let's assume something is disrupting her auto-pilot. There are just two ways to work around these disruptions. Either trick the mind, or detour around the disruption (your idea). I hope Nastya and her coaches read your suggestion.


Your suggestion is all about avoiding and changing neural paths (detours around disruptive synapses). Practicing the mistake to death only reinforces the disruptive neural paths, practice makes it worse (therefore the skater can't learn). Talking doctors (psychologists) won't do any better than coaches because the problem in the brain is physical, although it can have psychological origins (there are coaches who are psychologically unfit to work with children and teens, or skaters who learn it wrong from an early coach). Your solution would require lots of practice in order to build up the new synaptic paths (detours) so that the auto-pilot can function smoothly. There's a chance the defect may eventually disappear if not reinforced, but if it has reached the point of near certainty (falls every time), then it's probably permanent. It's possible that future programs will avoid the troublesome path.

It is also important to consider that some begin skating at age 4 when the brain is still in primary development (the brain continues to develop until at least age 20, which accounts for the vulnerability of teen skaters). Paths from earlier stages are the most stubborn.
 

YesWay

四年もかけて&#
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Sep 28, 2013
Here are some photos I took of Anastasiia at the Junior GP final in Marseille.

Her performances that week were very memorable for me - I love her graceful, elegant style of skating.

No photos can do justice to such expressive movement... and yet, she strikes such positions while skating, that her still photos are beautiful anyway - in their own (different) way...
 

Sam-Skwantch

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Yeah that was some Ashley like stink face at the score!! :devil:

Thanks for the video Sabinfire.
 
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sjid

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
It's crazy because the swan program is amongst the best programs choreographed this season. Hopefully she gets more quality programs because skating from the heart is not something easily taught and hard to replicate. If she can find another vehicle to express herself with we'll all be in for a treat. :yes:

The last 3 short programs were cut from the same cloth, and there is a good chance we will see something similar next year. The music of Samson, Storm and Swan have the same pattern. The basic musical element in each is a phrase consisting of one long held note alternating with a cluster of shorter notes. The music layout is simple: the long note-short notes phrase is repeated over and over. Each repetition is changed a little, sometimes louder, sometimes different instruments, usually a change of pitch, etc.

Nastya has a wonderful ability to quickly shift gears between slow and fast skating gracefully, so a musical pattern that alternates slow-fast (long note-short notes) lets the choreographer feature this strength. The music of Samson (2014), Storm (2015) and Swan (2016) all use repeating slow-fast phrases that change with each repetition. The imaginative ways she expresses these changes while at the same time respecting the basic slow-fast base, gives her performances an emotional quality that really does express the emotion of the music. This is her signature style, it is a drama of contrasts. Here are my favorite performances from 2014 and 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k62nGQoN0io (Samson); https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73VWjOW9Ao (Storm). The repeating long note-short notes phrase pattern is most obvious in Storm. As long as she continues to emphasize her slow-fast skating style, she will have programs similar to the last 3. There are dozens of gorgeous pieces using this long note-short notes technique, and many of those have the slow tempo and lyrical melody she prefers. There is huge potential after she puts the jump issues behind her. I see no reason to change.

R&J will be harder to follow. The music was unusual and it took them a year of experiments to get the choreography right. They set the bar high with R&J.
 
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Sam-Skwantch

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She didn't end the program with the Loop today and instead did a salchow and didn't even fist pump. Totally caught me off guard there. :biggrin:

3z-3t looked good too :yay:

I hope her scores go up next year and I hope she gets good programs again. Her choreography this year was amazing.
 
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