2015 JGP Colorado Springs Mens FS Sep 4 | Page 10 | Golden Skate

2015 JGP Colorado Springs Mens FS Sep 4

Tavi...

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Wow I vastly prefer this to anything Jason Brown has produced except 'may be' River Dance. It is probably one of the best Junior men's performance I have seen since watching Hanyu years ago. Why can't Han Yan get a decent classical program like this? It has the hall mark of 'I am gunning for the Olympic GOLD in a few years time' written all over it.

It will be a shame if his PCS get repressed at US nationals because of his apparent lack of cheap schtick schlock due to some crap reason like apparent lack emotion due to 'Asianess' lol...

He has huge potential, he already improved massively from what I remember. I was never a fan, but I may just be in the future if he keep doing good work like this, like how I felt about Patrick Chan. The MJ SP makes a nice combo with this one I thought.

Because of his apparent lack of cheap shtick? What is that supposed to mean?
 

shmay

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I don't see the point of keeping Nathan out of senior Worlds if he continues to skate this well. Send Vincent Zhou and Andrew Torgashev to Debrecen and call it a day.
 
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OS

Sedated by Modonium
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Because of his apparent lack of cheap shtick? What is that supposed to mean?

Stuff applies to Brown. General campiness, kitscheness to mask his artistic deficiencies or temperament which are more apparent with the the current choice of FS, a potential beautiful program without gimmick (jazzy hands are banned). Along with his FS last year he showed he does not have natural ability to really feel the subtlety of music or understand the nuances except with greater practice and refinement. He is a very good Junior skater, but these are Junior programs that been artificially inflated as the best of US likely to due to his likability and popularity to River Dance (legendary category, but it is no more than Gangnam Style to me). If he had skated for Latvia, he wouldn't have nearly got the marks he has got.

Brown is the Russian Lenova with doubled inflated PCS :p Good and bad.
 
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chuckm

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Sure, that's why Brown finished 4th at Worlds 2015: he pulled the wool over nine judges' eyes. BTW, there was no US judge on the panel---they were nearly all European, with 3 from former SSRs (RUS, KAZ, UKR) plus POL and ISR. They all wanted a junior skater close to the podium :sarcasm:.

Reads to me like sour grapes from a Vassiljevs fan.
 
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el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Sure, that's why Brown finished 4th at Worlds 2015: he pulled the wool over nine judges' eyes. BTW, there was no US judge on the panel---they were nearly all European, with 3 from former SSRs (RUS, KAZ, UKR) plus POL and ISR. They all wanted a junior skater close to the podium :sarcasm:.

Reads to me like sour grapes from a Vassiljevs fan.
:agree:

I'll stick with the judge's assessment of Jason's PCS right now. And Nathan should pray, work and hope that he gets half of Jason's performance skills (likewise, what would happen if Jason had Nathan's quad triple combo?:drama:). But as of yet, that perfect male US skater does not exist, so I'll watch the ones we have....
 

silverfoxes

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Feb 16, 2014
Sure, that's why Brown finished 4th at Worlds 2015: he pulled the wool over nine judges' eyes. BTW, there was no US judge on the panel---they were nearly all European, with 3 from former SSRs (RUS, KAZ, UKR) plus POL and ISR. They all wanted a junior skater close to the podium :sarcasm:.

Reads to me like sour grapes from a Vassiljevs fan.

What does Vasiljevs have to do with anything? :confused: He wasn't in this competition...or at Worlds...why bring him up? Sour grapes for what reason?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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I don't understand the need to bring up either skater. I mean I know that that AZE skater is a doppelgänger of Jason's and all... :laugh:

Hey, Larry...your ears must be burning!

In all seriousness, let's not get into a D/R-esque PCS/artistry discussion here especially regarding a skater who wasn't even at this competition. It's clear that his style is not for everyone, but there are others -- including judges -- who do like it.

That said, we have a lovely US Men's thread where this matter could be discussed. :)
 
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Ice Dance

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Jan 26, 2014
That said, we have a lovely US Men's thread where this matter could be discussed. :)

We do. LOL! And I don't think anyone is arguing that Nathan's artistry is comparable to Jason's. Shoot. Three competitions ago, I thought it was pretty impressive that Nathan looked like he was going to give Richard Dornbush something to worry about. Now, we're somehow talking about Jason? That's pretty incredible in my mind. (Comes with landing four triple axles & how many quads in a row? Six?) If Jason loses at Nationals to Nathan, it will be Jason's fault. But Josh? Adam? Max? I look back at last season and try to find a guy who hit a clean short & a clean long with two triple axles & two quads. About the only guys who spring to mind were standing on the world podium.

For me, the question isn't does Nathan have the presentation of the seasoned guys. It's can Nathan develop that kind of presentation? And--yeah--I think he has the potential. He hears his music. And he can move. I don't think he's a natural artist the way some of these guys are, but I think he is a student. I think someone tells him he needs choreography, and he listens. He studies. He keeps it. He perfects it.

One thing I do feel pretty certain about is that if Nathan goes out into the senior men’s field and knocks off three solid free skates in a row the way he has just done, his score rises every time. We’ve seen it happen again and again and again.
 
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WeakAnkles

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Wow I vastly prefer this to anything Jason Brown has produced except 'may be' River Dance. It is probably one of the best Junior men's performance I have seen since watching Hanyu years ago. Why can't Han Yan get a decent classical program like this? It has the hall mark of 'I am gunning for the Olympic GOLD in a few years time' written all over it.

It will be a shame if his PCS get repressed at US nationals because of his apparent lack of cheap schtick schlock due to some crap reason like apparent lack emotion due to 'Asianess' lol...

He has huge potential, he already improved massively from what I remember. I was never a fan, but I may just be in the future if he keep doing good work like this, like how I felt about Patrick Chan. The MJ SP makes a nice combo with this one I thought.


Watch the Korean pair's short program to Whiplash and the long program and see just how silly that "Asian lack of emotion" charge really is. Nathan strikes me as someone basically a bit shy and more than a bit reserved (see his TSL interview, for instance). It has nothing whatsoever to do with his ethnicity. I would haul his butt right off to an acting class, or 5. I think it would do him a world of good at breaking him out of his shell. You might say he could use a little more ham in his (emotional) diet. ;)

And the comments about Jason are just to laugh at. Sour grapes indeed.
 

CaroLiza_fan

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Yes, I like Coughlin, he's very pleasant to listen to.

Love Stairway to Heaven...I wish Led Zep was as popular as Queen, Muse and the Beatles in skating

Agree with you regards John Coughlin. Up until John's arrival in the booth, Ted was starting to sound like he was running on autopilot. But having somebody sitting beside him has really revitalised the commentary.

As for "Stairway To Heaven", I have been calling out for years for people to skate to it. It is one of my second favourite song of all time, and I have always thought that it would be perfect for skating to.

Now, I'm not so sure.

My favourite song of all time is "Bohemian Rhapsody". Yet, I hate it being used in figure skating, because the recordings used are never as good as the original Queen version (I think there has only been one time when I have liked a version that has been used, and I can't remember now who used it!)

Based on what I have just watched, it looks like the same is the case with "Stairway"!

That version that Hugh BRABYN-JONES used in his Free Skate was absolutely AWFUL!!! :eek:

I have no idea who it was playing it, but it certainly wasn't Led Zeppelin! And then they have the cheek to have Robert Plant singing a line of it at the very end of the routine, even though it wasn't him and the boys for the rest of the routine!

And that is before we even get to the editing! OK, so "Stairway" is far too long a song to be used in its entirity. But, the way it was chopped up to fit the time was brutal!

PLEASE don't anybody else torture me by doing this to one of the greatest songs of all time!

(On a side note, I do still think "Kashmir" would work well...)

CaroLiza_fan
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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I agree John Coughlin was great! I hope to hear more...maybe ISU could be persuaded to take him on in the future. That said, while I agree Ted is a bit autopilot, I've seen improvement in his solo commentary compared to last season. It was really bare bones befor and now we hear more of his thoughts on specific elements and the such.
 

CaroLiza_fan

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I agree John Coughlin was great! I hope to hear more...maybe ISU could be persuaded to take him on in the future. That said, while I agree Ted is a bit autopilot, I've seen improvement in his solo commentary compared to last season. It was really bare bones befor and now we hear more of his thoughts on specific elements and the such.

I hope so too. Because commentary is always more enjoyable (and informative) when there are 2 people talking. For me, 2 commentators is the optimal number to have, no matter what the sport. One is too few, and three is too many. With one commentator, you're only getting the opinions of one person, and they may have their own biases. With 3 commentators, they are having to fight with each other to get the chance to speak.

As for Ted, I have seen an improvement in his commentating even from the Riga Cup. But, I do think the intense schedule of the Junior GP schedule is starting to affect him. Like, in the space of 3 weeks he has commentated on competitions in Riga, Bratislava and Colorado Springs. That would be OK if it was Eurosport, where the commentators are talking from a studio in Paris. But Ted has been rinkside for all of these competitions. OK, so travelling from Latvia to Slovakia wouldn't have been too bad. But travelling from Eastern Europe to the west coast of America would leave you very tired! And I think that was coming through when he was on his own in the commentary box in Colorado.

If the ISU are going to have commentators rinkside every week, they would be better off with a team of at least 3 or 4 commentators. That way, we could have a different combination talking to us each week, while the other(s) would get the chance for a well deserved rest!


Thank you so much for the info, but you've also managed to upset me by posting the video link. Because there is a copyright claim on that video, and I can't hear the music. :disapp: :bang:

CaroLiza_fan
 
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dorispulaski

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Agree with you regards John Coughlin. Up until John's arrival in the booth, Ted was starting to sound like he was running on autopilot. But having somebody sitting beside him has really revitalised the commentary.

As for "Stairway To Heaven", I have been calling out for years for people to skate to it. It is one of my second favourite song of all time, and I have always thought that it would be perfect for skating to.

Now, I'm not so sure.

My favourite song of all time is "Bohemian Rhapsody". Yet, I hate it being used in figure skating, because the recordings used are never as good as the original Queen version (I think there has only been one time when I have liked a version that has been used, and I can't remember now who used it!)

Based on what I have just watched, it looks like the same is the case with "Stairway"!

That version that Hugh BRABYN-JONES used in his Free Skate was absolutely AWFUL!!! :eek:

I have no idea who it was playing it, but it certainly wasn't Led Zeppelin! And then they have the cheek to have Robert Plant singing a line of it at the very end of the routine, even though it wasn't him and the boys for the rest of the routine!

And that is before we even get to the editing! OK, so "Stairway" is far too long a song to be used in its entirity. But, the way it was chopped up to fit the time was brutal!

PLEASE don't anybody else torture me by doing this to one of the greatest songs of all time!

(On a side note, I do still think "Kashmir" would work well...)

CaroLiza_fan


I took a chance, and dailymotion has a version with sound :)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzkh_zhang-hao-zhang-dan-sp_sport
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
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I took a chance, and dailymotion has a version with sound :)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzkh_zhang-hao-zhang-dan-sp_sport

Brilliant!!! Absolutely brilliant!!! :points:

But, there again, I wouldn't expect anything less from the Zhangs! ;) :biggrin:

Much as I like Zhang Hao's partnership with Peng Cheng, watching this reminds me of how much I miss his partnership with Zhang Dan.

Thank you so much for looking this up, Doris! :bow:

And thank you for reminding me about Daily Motion. I keep forgetting about it! I'll have to try to remember in future, as there might be skating videos on there that could be used in my Fan Fests...

CaroLiza_fan
 
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ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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... Up until John's arrival in the booth, Ted was starting to sound like he was running on autopilot. But having somebody sitting beside him has really revitalised the commentary. ...

... That said, while I agree Ted is a bit autopilot, I've seen improvement in his solo commentary compared to last season. It was really bare bones befor and now we hear more of his thoughts on specific elements and the such.

... As for Ted, I have seen an improvement in his commentating even from the Riga Cup. But, I do think the intense schedule of the Junior GP schedule is starting to affect him. Like, in the space of 3 weeks he has commentated on competitions in Riga, Bratislava and Colorado Springs. ... But Ted has been rinkside for all of these competitions. OK, so travelling from Latvia to Slovakia wouldn't have been too bad. But travelling from Eastern Europe to the west coast of America would leave you very tired! And I think that was coming through when he was on his own in the commentary box in Colorado. ...

Strongly agree that Barton's nightmare-ish schedule is absolutely GRUELING, so I appreciate the supportive comments for him from both of you.

No disrespect for Coughlin, but he was delivering his limited Colorado Springs commentary (which I liked) under far cushier conditions than Barton.

By the time Coughlin joined him for the final two groups of the Men's FS, Barton already had given solo commentary that day for the SD (14 couples) + Ladies SP (30 ladies) + the first two groups in the Men's FS (10 men).
Not to mention that Barton had given solo commentary the day before for the Men's and Pairs SPs (22 men + 8 pairs).
On the third day of Colorado Springs competition, Barton already had given solo commentary for the FD before Coughlin joined him for the Pairs FS.

Not to mention the previous two weeks of Barton's solo commentary, globetrotting, and living out of a suitcase.
Not to mention the interviews that Barton books and conducts, plus probably a thousand other "invisible" responsibilities related to the live streaming.
(And not to mention that I imagine that he keeps tabs to some extent on his job back home running Skating BC/YT.)

And not to mention that many of the JGP skaters are new on the scene, and Barton (understandably) prob. has little or no personal knowledge of some of them. I bet he spends as much time as he can attending practice sessions to prep for his commentary.

In contrast, Coughlin's cameos in Colorado Springs were a drop in the bucket: commentary with a partner for the free skates of a mere 12 men (some being quite well-known quantities) on one day and 8 pairs on the next.
On the familiar ground of his home turf, where he could sleep in his own bed.

For me, Barton is by far the real hero :bow: doing the heavy lifting.
If anyone else were willing to walk in his shoes for the entire JGP season, I bet that her or his solo commentary would not be free of auto-piloting either. And the commentary would feel revitalized if/when a co-commentator were temporarily available.
 
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dorispulaski

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Dailymotion is much less skilled at enforcing copyright claims...or else, those claiming ownership forget that it exists, just as we do.
 

silverfoxes

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Feb 16, 2014
Strongly agree that Barton's nightmare-ish schedule is absolutely GRUELING, so I appreciate the supportive comments for him from both of you.

I think Barton is doing a fabulous job. Just watching all of the JGP events is tiring (and I don't even watch ice dance)! So many skaters to keep track of, such long days! I hope he feels appreciated.
 

CaroLiza_fan

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Strongly agree that Barton's nightmare-ish schedule is absolutely GRUELING, so I appreciate the supportive comments for him from both of you.

...

For me, Barton is by far the real hero :bow: doing the heavy lifting.
If anyone else were willing to walk in his shoes for the entire JGP season, I bet that her or his solo commentary would not be free of auto-piloting either. And the commentary would feel revitalized if/when a co-commentator were temporarily available.

I think Barton is doing a fabulous job. Just watching all of the JGP events is tiring (and I don't even watch ice dance)! So many skaters to keep track of, such long days! I hope he feels appreciated.

Agree with EVERYTHING you have both said! :agree:

(Sorry for having to shorten the quote of your comment, Golden, but it was kinda taking over this post!)

Ted has done a great job so far, and I really appreciate all the hard work he has put in. In fact, I would go as far as to say that he deserves a medal for it!

I'm sure he'll be grateful for the weekend off that we are going to have between the Austrian and Polish competitions! ;) :biggrin:

Although, I can't help wondering if it would not have made more sense to have the weekend off between the American and Austrian rounds, rather than in between two European rounds...

CaroLiza_fan
 
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