2015 Ondrej Nepela Trophy Ice Dance SD and FD

I will say that the Shibs have been doing the same basic/ easy lifts and spins for years now. I'm quite sure than can do something more difficult and original. I'd love to see something new from them in this department.
With these programs if they don't reach podiums with these, they really do need to leave Marina.

Yep the protocols show that the disaster was limited to two elements - the step sequences. The dance spin was actually scored super well. I think this doom and gloom for the Shibs is premature, as always. They are hard workers and I expect we'll see improvement in a few weeks.

Plisskin said:

I will say that the Shibs have been doing the same basic/ easy lifts and spins for years now. I'm quite sure than can do something more difficult and original. I'd love to see something new from them in this department.

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I think that last lift is new! And it scored pretty well, as the dance spin.

gmyers said:

Shibs are far more established and aren't desperate to be a real team with sd tech minimums. Until s/k get tech mins they aren't even a real team and I'm sure marina wants them to be a real team.

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oh, it does sense now, give priority to a team that can´t even get the tech minimus :sarcasm:

Mrs. P said:

Yep the protocols show that the disaster was limited to two elements - the step sequences. The dance spin was actually scored super well. I think this doom and gloom for the Shibs is premature, as always. They are hard workers and I expect we'll see improvement in a few weeks.



I think that last lift is new! And it scored pretty well, as the dance spin.

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Ah, okay. And for some reason I thought they got dinged on that. Lemme go look at the scoring sheet again, lol.

chapis said:

oh, it does sense now, give priority to a team that can´t even get the tech minimus :sarcasm:

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I'm sure there was open communication well beforehand about who was going to this event with the Shibs. I agree strongly Marina's not the coach for them and have been saying that for literally years, but attacking her for this is a bit ridiculous. Many coaches can't go with their skaters to EACH competition for a huge variety of reasons, and have to make difficult choices- some coaches weren't here for example because they went to the JGP with other skaters or vice versa.

I am sure if the Shibs themselves had an issue with Marina's coaching they would leave. They are both highly intelligent people, and have obviously decided to stay with her for some reason that makes sense to them even if it doesn't to us. I highly doubt they have any issue with her not having been there today and I also highly doubt they'd have hit the levels today if she was there. It's not like your coach is going to be able to teach you which edge to hit when during the 6 minute warmup.

Plisskin said:

I will say that the Shibs have been doing the same basic/ easy lifts and spins for years now. I'm quite sure than can do something more difficult and original. I'd love to see something new from them in this department.
With these programs if they don't reach podiums with these, they really do need to leave Marina.

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I do wish their first two lifts had more impact. I wanted them to be "wow" moments for me, but they ended up feeling anticlimactic. Still - their focus right now should probably be on the steps since that's where they're losing the points.

I'm starting to repeat myself Time for a palate cleanser and then to watch the men.

Sackie said:

What were the final scores - they are not posted yet!

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It's kind of annoying that the official site doesn't update quickly - as in, actually displaying livescores...
However, the FD scores are up now: http://www.kraso.sk/wp-content/uploads/sutaze/2015_2016/20151001_ont/SEG008.HTM
Still waiting for the protocols...

(sidenote: I wish I hadn't had to leave the computer before FD was over )

tulosai said:

I'm sure there was open communication well beforehand about who was going to this event with the Shibs. I agree strongly Marina's not the coach for them and have been saying that for literally years, but attacking her for this is a bit ridiculous. Many coaches can't go with their skaters to EACH competition for a huge variety of reasons, and have to make difficult choices- some coaches weren't here for example because they went to the JGP with other skaters or vice versa.

I am sure if the Shibs themselves had an issue with Marina's coaching they would leave. They are both highly intelligent people, and have obviously decided to stay with her for some reason that makes sense to them even if it doesn't to us. I highly doubt they have any issue with her not having been there today and I also highly doubt they'd have hit the levels today if she was there. It's not like your coach is going to be able to teach you which edge to hit when during the 6 minute warmup.

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I was very well with that, but then I saw Igor with C/B and other second team when he has the possible next world champions (Chock/Bates), who will be competing at Skate america too like S/K and I can´t help wonder if Igor´s success is because he is more commited with their teams. Anyway, you are right Shibs decided to stay with Marina. They are not obligated.

Liked all top 3
Shibs indeed have a great prog I did like the EX song bettert than Fix u. They better Fix levers obviously!
& G/P is Moar crazyness!

finally had a chance to catch up some performances...

For Maia and Alex - I am confused and really don't know how to evaluate this highly anticipated FD...At first it was a WOW moment, but then after re-watching it this feeling quickly faded. Why? Because if this is supposed be a competetive program, it is nowhere near this now (unfortunately). For me, this is STILL a beautiful vision/promise or already missed opportunity (I hope it's not...). First - I do not associate this song with black color - at least Maia should wear something light-colored, maybe with a hint of sparkles. Then, first half of the program is definitely better than second one - in first half all elements and choreo transitions are well placed with music I feel, in second one I feel that they should separate these 2 step sequences (maybe take one into the first half?) now being performed back to back and rework the end...

They should work really hard on all lifts and flow during step sequences - as many of you pointed their lifts look easy and there is no innovation. I really hope they'll put it all together, I really do because they are great skaters, talented, with lots of personality...

On the other hand...Giles and Poiries really shocked me - whereas Shibutanis elements looked familiar and usual, their stuff was really innovative and oozed creativity. I love this kind of programs - yes, it is not for every taste, yes, it seems strange and 'too much' for some, but I appreciate them for pushing the envelope further with choosing fresh music, taking some new choreo/elements and taking a huge risk overall. They looked really strong there (points proved this) and definitely made some strong impression. I have a feeling that that kind of programs - quirky, a little creepy, modern - are made for Paul to skate, he has such great technique and natural dancing flow in his body while skating to emphasise all these musical niuances. All lifts were amazing - fresh, looking difficult, spin and choreo sequence were fabulous also. I think that this could be a breaktrough moment for them and a vehicle which would get them on the top shelf in ice dance

NoNameFace said:

finally had a chance to catch up some performances...

For Maia and Alex - I am confused and really don't know how to evaluate this highly anticipated FD...At first it was a WOW moment, but then after re-watching it this feeling quickly faded. Why? Because if this is supposed be a competetive program, it is nowhere near this now (unfortunately). For me, this is STILL a beautiful vision/promise or already missed opportunity (I hope it's not...). First - I do not aasociate this song with black color - at least Maia should wear something light-colored, maybe with a hint of sparkles. Then, first half of the program is definitely better than second one - in first half all elements and choreo transitions are well placed with music I feel, in second one I feel that they should separate these 2 step sequences (maybe take one into the first half?) now being performed back to back and rework the end...

They should work really had on all lifts and flow during step sequences - as many of you pointed their lifts look easy and there is no innovation. I really hope they'll put it all together, I really do because they are great skaters, talented, with lots of personality...

On the other hand...Giles and Poiries really shocked me - whereas Shibutanis elements looked familiar and usual, their stuff was really innovative and oozed creativity. I love this kind of programs - yes, it is not for every taste, yes, it seems strange and 'too much' for some, but I appreciate them for pushing the envelope further with choosing fresh music, taking some new choreo/elements and taking a huge risk overall. They looked really strong there (points proved this) and definitely made some strong impression. I have a feeling that that kind of programs - quirky, a little creepy, modern - are made for Paul to skate, he has such great technique and natural dancing flow in his body while skating to emphasise all these musical niuances. All lifts were amazing - fresh, looking difficult, spin and choreo sequence were fabulous also. I think that this could be a breaktrough moment for them and a vehicle which would get them on the top shelf in ice dance

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Looking at fancams you can see how weak they are in the step sequences, quite slow and tentative at times. The lifts also need polishing. Were they injured during the summer? Does Marina pay any attention to them at all? Or is it that this team peaked in 2011?

NoNameFace said:

On the other hand...Giles and Poiries really shocked me - whereas Shibutanis elements looked familiar and usual, their stuff was really innovative and oozed creativity. I love this kind of programs - yes, it is not for every taste, yes, it seems strange and 'too much' for some, but I appreciate them for pushing the envelope further with choosing fresh music, taking some new choreo/elements and taking a huge risk overall. They looked really strong there (points proved this) and definitely made some strong impression. I have a feeling that that kind of programs - quirky, a little creepy, modern - are made for Paul to skate, he has such great technique and natural dancing flow in his body while skating to emphasise all these musical niuances. All lifts were amazing - fresh, looking difficult, spin and choreo sequence were fabulous also. I think that this could be a breaktrough moment for them and a vehicle which would get them on the top shelf in ice dance

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My thoughts exactly. It is hard to put originality into a free dance with so many rules to observe, but they manage it. AND using music which hasn't been heard a hundred times before. I like the 'modern' style, and their dance steps and moves are well synchronised. No arm-flailing and looking like they are trying too hard (which I too often see with the Russian teams). We NEED originality in dance.

As for the Shibutanis, I thought their programme was nice, but that's it. I preferred Coomes/Buckland and that's not just because I am British. I think they have shaped up into very accomplished ice dancers and hope it continues.