2015 Croatia Cup Ladies FS Oct 10

samkrut@mail.ru · Oct 10, 2015

TheGrandSophy said:
Back on topic, I have watched Marin again and I really enjoy her so much. What are her chances of medaling at JGPF, do we think?

I am may be a bit biased sometimes but that's what I wrote after the first time I saw Honda in Colorado: "Having Tsurskaya, Sotskova, and Honda competiting side by side in the JGPF will be very big fun to watch. They all are so different yet so good each in their own sense". And I will stick to that adding Alisa who managed to show that she can skate both programs with charm and youthful grace. I do not think it is proper to move just Marin to the pedestal dismissing all the top Russians. And in fact it is possible that one of the other two Japanese will act as a spoiler. But I will be happy to see at the podium any three of the "magnificent four" both at JGPF and the junior worlds.

koheikun90 · Oct 10, 2015

cl2 said:
Could school of technique be the differentiating factor? I notice that Japanese jump technique looks different from the Russian school, which looks different from the North American school. I would posit that the Japanese and Russian have perfected the art of teaching jump technique from a young age. On the other hand, that can't be the only cause for the poor US showing, can it? It's clear that many US skaters have the goods, but can't deliver when it counts, which means that it's not solely the grassroots development program to blame.

to me it seems more of a lack of competitve drive to why the US has fallen so off the map. US figure skatings need to restructure and bring skaters together for training camps.

andyjo24 · Oct 10, 2015

Lol. The US is so hopeless in ladies. We're even losing to the Koreans..

Icey · Oct 10, 2015

I wish they would set the age limit for juniors to 16 or even 15.

jace93 · Oct 10, 2015

Icey said:
I wish they would set the age limit for juniors to 16 or even 15.

Why? so that essentially all pair and dance couple and most of the men, all who aren't some kind of monster like Plushenko or Hanyu, get forcibly sent up to the senior rank way before they've developed enough to compete with the others?

MasterB · Oct 10, 2015

Marin's movement on the ice reminds me of Yukina Ota.

silverfoxes · Oct 10, 2015

jace93 said:
Why? so that essentially all pair and dance couple and most of the men, all who aren't some kind of monster like Plushenko or Hanyu, get forcibly sent up to the senior rank way before they've developed enough to compete with the others?

:thumbsup: Not only that, but a lot of skaters, esp. from smaller feds don't have all the developmental opportunities that would make them competitive as seniors by 16/17. Lack of decent rinks and ice time, access to good coaches, few local competitions, etc. Plus what about skaters who started very late...should they just get thrown into the senior shark tank without adequate experience? Like Princess Alexandra for example, who is 16. Is she just not supposed to compete at all, or would you like to see someone with her current ability in a senior comp?

MaxSwagg · Oct 10, 2015

Tamura-chan's hotness helped Marin win. :biggrin:

Interspectator · Oct 10, 2015

MAXSwagg said:
Tamura-chan's hotness helped Marin win.

It cracks me up to see him sit along side the girls in the kiss and cry, cause I remember him in his sequins and frilly costumes and know for sure he can out-diva any lady out there.
--But looking at his students, Yuna S. and Marin, he is obviously doing a great job as a coach now.

AprilS · Oct 10, 2015

MasterB said:
Marin's movement on the ice reminds me of Yukina Ota.

Same coach :bow:

Hamada's students always seemed to have elegant, lyrical movements and small, UR jumps, but that seems to be getting better since Tamura joined their team (IMO)

koheikun90 · Oct 10, 2015

MAXSwagg said:
Tamura-chan's hotness helped Marin win.

yep hes pretty fierce.

Perdita · Oct 10, 2015

I just woke up and saw the result... Wakaba...

Marin was superb! I'm so looking forward to seeing how far she can go this season.

I really wish if the scoring system rewarded the difficult combinations more though. Even if Wakaba didn't pop 3F, it would only allow her to score 1.27 higher than Marin in BV. I know there's no point in blaming the scoring system but looking at Marin' score, I wonder what's the point of doing 3Lz+3T, let alone 3Lz+3Lo? Or Paulina T.'s 3Lz+3T+2T or Yuna's 3S+3Lo?

mirai4life · Oct 10, 2015

Yeah, there really is no point of doing 3Lz-3lo and 3Lz-3T under the current system.

burntBREAD · Oct 11, 2015

perdita said:
I just woke up and saw the result... Wakaba...

Marin was superb! I'm so looking forward to seeing how far she can go this season.

I really wish if the scoring system rewarded the difficult combinations more though. Even if Wakaba didn't pop 3F, it would only allow her to score 1.27 higher than Marin in BV. I know there's no point in blaming the scoring system but looking at Marin' score, I wonder what's the point of doing 3Lz+3T, let alone 3Lz+3Lo? Or Paulina T.'s 3Lz+3T+2T or Yuna's 3S+3Lo?

I agree, since there isn't an additional bonus for combos, what stops someone from maximizing base value by doing a layout like two 3Lz (one in combo with a double), two 3F (one in combo with a double), 3Lo, 3S, and then a 2A-3T? That's seven jumping passes right there and doesn't do something like repeat 2A or 3T, instead repeating the highest value triples.

Marin doesn't even max out her base value since she repeats 3F and 3T, not 3Lz and 3F. Wakaba sort of does because she repeats 3Lz and 3Lo (her 3F has edge issues), but she also "wastes" two jumping passes with double axels in the second half.

largeman · Oct 11, 2015

burntBREAD said:
I agree, since there isn't an additional bonus for combos, what stops someone from maximizing base value by doing a layout like two 3Lz (one in combo with a double), two 3F (one in combo with a double), 3Lo, 3S, and then a 2A-3T? That's seven jumping passes right there and doesn't do something like repeat 2A or 3T, instead repeating the highest value triples.

That's quite right... for someone completely comfortable with both her lutz and her flip, that could be a safe and TES maximizing layout! The thing is most of these girls don't seem to have both lutz and flip technique/consistency down. Polina and Wakaba, who have a breathtaking lutz, still struggle with their flip takeoff edge. Marin doesn't put a lutz in her SP, etc. Masha seems to be the only one in this bunch who has both jumps nailed, am I correct?

Perdita · Oct 11, 2015

Actually, having two 3F (so that you end up having two 2T and a 2Lo) doesn't worth the risk compared to having two 2A (because you either have two 3T or 3Lo).

Compare BV of these three jumping layout (without considering the second half bonus):

1. Marin's: 3Lz, 3S+3T, 2A, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lo, 2A+3T, 3F = 44.4
2. Wakaba's: 3Lz+3Lo, 3S, 3Lz+3T, 2A, 3Lo, 3F, 2A+2T+2Lo = 45.9
3. Two 3F plan: 3Lz, 3Lz+2T, 3F, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3S, 3Lo, 2A+3T = 44.1

The question, for me, is that Wakaba can switch 3Lz+3T and 2A to 3Lz and 2A+3T and it won't change anything (You could argue the difference in GOE factor though). And, while having 3Lo and 3T as combination jumps instead of two 3T gives 0.8 point gap, I don't think it's worth the risk and the effort put into to do something like 3Lz+3Lo...

Leonardo · Oct 12, 2015

perdita said:
Actually, having two 3F (so that you end up having two 2T and a 2Lo) doesn't worth the risk compared to having two 2A (because you either have two 3T or 3Lo).

Compare BV of these three jumping layout (without considering the second half bonus):

1. Marin's: 3Lz, 3S+3T, 2A, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lo, 2A+3T, 3F = 44.4
2. Wakaba's: 3Lz+3Lo, 3S, 3Lz+3T, 2A, 3Lo, 3F, 2A+2T+2Lo = 45.9
3. Two 3F plan: 3Lz, 3Lz+2T, 3F, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3S, 3Lo, 2A+3T = 44.1

The question, for me, is that Wakaba can switch 3Lz+3T and 2A to 3Lz and 2A+3T and it won't change anything (You could argue the difference in GOE factor though). And, while having 3Lo and 3T as combination jumps instead of two 3T gives 0.8 point gap, I don't think it's worth the risk and the effort put into to do something like 3Lz+3Lo...

ITA :thumbsup:

2015 Croatia Cup Ladies FS Oct 10

[email protected]

Medalist

koheikun90

andyjo24

Icey

jace93

MasterB

silverfoxes

MaxSwagg

Match Penalty

Interspectator

AprilS

koheikun90

Perdita

mirai4life

1Lo <

burntBREAD

largeman

choice beef

Perdita

Leonardo

Similar threads

Connect with us