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It is only a rumor from FSU, but Orford/Hill. Which has me :sad21:
because I adore them.
2017 Worlds Spots
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It is only a rumor from FSU, but Orford/Hill. Which has me :sad21:
because I adore them.
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Orford and Hill performed in some kind of show sponsored by MacKenzie Bent back in April, so I am crossing my fingers for them to keep skating.
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It is, after all, possible that Virtue and Moir, like many returning skaters before them, will decide that they do not want to go back to competing after they try it for a while, especially if they do not win every competition they enter.
And Weaver and Poje may retire too; they are not that young.
Paul and Islam might equally see the writing on the wall that they have stalled and retire.
Canadian dancers should not dispair yet.
And Weaver and Poje may retire too; they are not that young.
Paul and Islam might equally see the writing on the wall that they have stalled and retire.
Canadian dancers should not dispair yet.
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I totally agree with you, and you were able to explain this much better than myself. So, perhaps someone will finally undertand no one is being desrespectful for the skaters who come from "small" countries, but we ara advocating a fairer system to all, big and small countries.
However, again, the number of spots cannot be based on the bad performance of one day or the wonderful performance of one day, but from the whole accomplishments, in the season, of this country and athletes. Simply as it happens in other sports for their World championships.
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alebi
i think you are correct that the system has many flaws... however, if in ski for instance, a nation can send many athletes.... in other sports, like diving or swimming, only a maximum of 2 athletes if they qualify, can represent their country.... sometimes even just 1.
I feel that figure skating cannot sustain having 3 contestants per nation.... can you imagine the number of entries for a lady SP ?
Then, do you only keep the top 24 for the FP ? Because we know that the bigger federations, and the second tier ones would claim pretty much all those 24 spots....
adding more and more skaters is increasing ice time, and so on... is it possible ? would it be cost prohibitive?
Actually, a workable solution may be to include the top 2 skaters of every nation that meets the TES requirements ... but I am not sure Japan, Russia, USA would agree with this in the women field
but that way, you would be able to have 2 French, 2 Italians, 2 Australians, and countries like Canada wouldn't have to worry so much about losing their 2 spots.... this would help the second and third tier countries but not the top...
I think that there should be perhaps another system
perhaps allowing top 2 qualified skaters from each country and then, up to a certain number, allow for the next skaters to join in, up to a maximum to be defined, whether it is 3 or 4 or 5, depending on world ranking or season's highest score etc.... for instance... for a country like russia, that may allow a few more skaters to join in... which would definitely raise the level of skating in ladies.
However, not to penalize smaller federations, perhaps that there could be a rule that limits the number per country to 2 or 3 to reach the final... That is done in some sports as well.
In the end, there's probably no perfect solution and perhaps the current system is the one that is best within the context of figure skating.... by making skaters earn spots at worlds for the following year, it creates competition nationally for bigger federations which eliminates the 4-5-6th skaters from WC, stimulates second tier federations to keep their spots, and allows the small countries to qualify skaters IF they meet the TES requirements.... and because getting 3 spots is limited, the field is not too big to handle at worlds... I guess viewed like this, the current system does it job... despite its flaws.
i think you are correct that the system has many flaws... however, if in ski for instance, a nation can send many athletes.... in other sports, like diving or swimming, only a maximum of 2 athletes if they qualify, can represent their country.... sometimes even just 1.
I feel that figure skating cannot sustain having 3 contestants per nation.... can you imagine the number of entries for a lady SP ?
Then, do you only keep the top 24 for the FP ? Because we know that the bigger federations, and the second tier ones would claim pretty much all those 24 spots....
adding more and more skaters is increasing ice time, and so on... is it possible ? would it be cost prohibitive?
Actually, a workable solution may be to include the top 2 skaters of every nation that meets the TES requirements ... but I am not sure Japan, Russia, USA would agree with this in the women field
but that way, you would be able to have 2 French, 2 Italians, 2 Australians, and countries like Canada wouldn't have to worry so much about losing their 2 spots.... this would help the second and third tier countries but not the top...I think that there should be perhaps another system
perhaps allowing top 2 qualified skaters from each country and then, up to a certain number, allow for the next skaters to join in, up to a maximum to be defined, whether it is 3 or 4 or 5, depending on world ranking or season's highest score etc.... for instance... for a country like russia, that may allow a few more skaters to join in... which would definitely raise the level of skating in ladies.
However, not to penalize smaller federations, perhaps that there could be a rule that limits the number per country to 2 or 3 to reach the final... That is done in some sports as well.
In the end, there's probably no perfect solution and perhaps the current system is the one that is best within the context of figure skating.... by making skaters earn spots at worlds for the following year, it creates competition nationally for bigger federations which eliminates the 4-5-6th skaters from WC, stimulates second tier federations to keep their spots, and allows the small countries to qualify skaters IF they meet the TES requirements.... and because getting 3 spots is limited, the field is not too big to handle at worlds... I guess viewed like this, the current system does it job... despite its flaws.
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I understand what is being argued for the alternative systems, and I do respect the logic behind it. However, one sentence I may need to point out is not true for US track and field:
"However, again, the number of spots cannot be based on the bad performance of one day or the wonderful performance of one day, but from the whole accomplishments, in the season, of this country and athletes. Simply as it happens in other sports for their World championships."
In the US, you qualify for the Olympic marathon track team based on *one day's* performance, the Olympic trials. If you are the fastest that day, even if you have been dead last in every other race that year, you are on the team and you go to the Olympics. I actually prefer this system, but that is my preference. I understand why others do not.
"However, again, the number of spots cannot be based on the bad performance of one day or the wonderful performance of one day, but from the whole accomplishments, in the season, of this country and athletes. Simply as it happens in other sports for their World championships."
In the US, you qualify for the Olympic marathon track team based on *one day's* performance, the Olympic trials. If you are the fastest that day, even if you have been dead last in every other race that year, you are on the team and you go to the Olympics. I actually prefer this system, but that is my preference. I understand why others do not.
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Wow catching up on this thread and boy there are a lot of angry people here. Why direct this anger at each other? Direct it at the ISU, who sets the rules. Petition them to make the sport more inclusive.
Though seeing some of these demands, I'm beginning to think the ISU would be better off going the IIHF route and having divisions. Rank countries by world ranking points of their competitors or something akin to the points used for World Team Trophy. Top ranked countries compete amongst each other in the top division. Lower ranked countries can compete in lower divisions. Then you have division champions. Maybe you can even have the winners from each division (or top 3) face off against each other in a world championship to determine who's the best without people getting upset about it.
That would be a harsh way to do things, and might even cost more money, but then Australia and Korea and every nation could send 3 athletes. And they'd compete on more equal footing.
Though seeing some of these demands, I'm beginning to think the ISU would be better off going the IIHF route and having divisions. Rank countries by world ranking points of their competitors or something akin to the points used for World Team Trophy. Top ranked countries compete amongst each other in the top division. Lower ranked countries can compete in lower divisions. Then you have division champions. Maybe you can even have the winners from each division (or top 3) face off against each other in a world championship to determine who's the best without people getting upset about it.
That would be a harsh way to do things, and might even cost more money, but then Australia and Korea and every nation could send 3 athletes. And they'd compete on more equal footing.
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Mango, believe me, no one here is angry with other users It's the system, and only the system, that makes us angry!
I agree that the only consequence would be a time problem, but then you can work on different solutions, not the "limiting the numbers of skaters" one.
But still I don't agree with other sports' comparison. In every other sports there is a minimum, but this cap is fixed, it's not based on previous performance. In swimming and diving you have a limit of 2 and is ALWAYS two, in track&field a limit of 3 and is ALWAYS three. Can you imagine if in diving the spots were based on previous year's performance? We would never had a North Korean World champion, for example!
Especially in these kind of sports, were the final result is always precarious because even if you're Hanyu you can make a mess in a wrong day, you can't rely on something so uncertain. It's not like in time sports (track&field, swimming etc...) that if you run 10.10 you suddenly don't run 10.60 in a bad day....
el henry it's something inner the trials nature (and works for every T&F discipline, Sanya Richard-Ross lost a ticket to Worlds for example). BUT it's damaging athletes from the same country, not that USA earns fewer spots because of results at major competitions. USA Will always have 3 spots, than it's up to athletes to be one of the three.
Well unfortunately we can go on and on talking about this problem, but we're not ISU member in disguise (at least not me :cool14, so we can't do nothing for it!
Just vent our dissatisfaction :angry2:
It's the system, and only the system, that makes us angry!alebi
i think you are correct that the system has many flaws... however, if in ski for instance, a nation can send many athletes.... in other sports, like diving or swimming, only a maximum of 2 athletes if they qualify, can represent their country.... sometimes even just 1.
I feel that figure skating cannot sustain having 3 contestants per nation.... can you imagine the number of entries for a lady SP ?
Then, do you only keep the top 24 for the FP ? Because we know that the bigger federations, and the second tier ones would claim pretty much all those 24 spots....
adding more and more skaters is increasing ice time, and so on... is it possible ? would it be cost prohibitive?
Actually, a workable solution may be to include the top 2 skaters of every nation that meets the TES requirements ... but I am not sure Japan, Russia, USA would agree with this in the women field
I think that there should be perhaps another system
perhaps allowing top 2 qualified skaters from each country and then, up to a certain number, allow for the next skaters to join in, up to a maximum to be defined, whether it is 3 or 4 or 5, depending on world ranking or season's highest score etc.... for instance... for a country like russia, that may allow a few more skaters to join in... which would definitely raise the level of skating in ladies.
However, not to penalize smaller federations, perhaps that there could be a rule that limits the number per country to 2 or 3 to reach the final... That is done in some sports as well.
In the end, there's probably no perfect solution and perhaps the current system is the one that is best within the context of figure skating.... by making skaters earn spots at worlds for the following year, it creates competition nationally for bigger federations which eliminates the 4-5-6th skaters from WC, stimulates second tier federations to keep their spots, and allows the small countries to qualify skaters IF they meet the TES requirements.... and because getting 3 spots is limited, the field is not too big to handle at worlds... I guess viewed like this, the current system does it job... despite its flaws.
I agree that the only consequence would be a time problem, but then you can work on different solutions, not the "limiting the numbers of skaters" one.
But still I don't agree with other sports' comparison. In every other sports there is a minimum, but this cap is fixed, it's not based on previous performance. In swimming and diving you have a limit of 2 and is ALWAYS two, in track&field a limit of 3 and is ALWAYS three. Can you imagine if in diving the spots were based on previous year's performance? We would never had a North Korean World champion, for example!
Especially in these kind of sports, were the final result is always precarious because even if you're Hanyu you can make a mess in a wrong day, you can't rely on something so uncertain. It's not like in time sports (track&field, swimming etc...) that if you run 10.10 you suddenly don't run 10.60 in a bad day....
el henry it's something inner the trials nature (and works for every T&F discipline, Sanya Richard-Ross lost a ticket to Worlds for example). BUT it's damaging athletes from the same country, not that USA earns fewer spots because of results at major competitions. USA Will always have 3 spots, than it's up to athletes to be one of the three.
Well unfortunately we can go on and on talking about this problem, but we're not ISU member in disguise (at least not me :cool14
, so we can't do nothing for it!Just vent our dissatisfaction :angry2:
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well, i am following diving loosely right now and divers still needed to qualify the second entry for the olympics... at least for Canada... not all spots have been earned from previous worlds... so not all disciplines will have 2 divers from Canada... and that is based on what happened at worlds and other competitions prior to the OG.
swimming; there are national trials...yes... it's a completely different sport... but trust me, it is possible to be nervous for a race and tense up and miss your standard... it happened to me not at the Olympic level HAHA but yeah... i didn't qualify in the 100 m butterfly by one tenth of a second for college finals... something I was very able to do but I choked that day
I think what is fair though is that the rules are the same for everyone... and people know about the chance of qualifying way ahead of time....
first get the TES requirements...
second get selected by your national federation.
third, the better you do at worlds, the better your chances are that you may go back the year after
It is cruel for many, but it works okay for others....
swimming; there are national trials...yes... it's a completely different sport... but trust me, it is possible to be nervous for a race and tense up and miss your standard... it happened to me
not at the Olympic level HAHA but yeah... i didn't qualify in the 100 m butterfly by one tenth of a second for college finals... something I was very able to do but I choked that day I think what is fair though is that the rules are the same for everyone... and people know about the chance of qualifying way ahead of time....
first get the TES requirements...
second get selected by your national federation.
third, the better you do at worlds, the better your chances are that you may go back the year after
It is cruel for many, but it works okay for others....
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