Random Confessions | Page 143 | Golden Skate

Random Confessions

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Ugh, it's been 3 months since I could write more than 3 sentences and nearly a year since I've finished a story. I desperately want to write, something, anything. Something that'll fill this void of not writing. Words and phrases flit around in my head, characters that are fleshed out in varying degrees poke in every now and then, I just don't have the vessel, the story to let them out. Only bits and fragments. The young mage got exiled to a foreign land where his magic doesn't work. What happens to him? The cynical once-human ghost-catching office employee got her deviant teenage angsty spirit. What else does she do? A whole fantasy world about 70% built is there. How do the main characters live in it? It's terrifying, the notion that I might never have a new story in me.

Oh the fellow feeling here.... have you tried clustering?
http://www.efrogpress.com/2014/07/22/clustering-a-prewriting-technique-that-overcomes-writers-block/

It sometimes works for me, as does simply sitting and writing the first rubbish that comes into my head just to get going (it very carefully gets deleted later of course :laugh: )

I love those character ideas! Do you 'cast' your characters? I find that sometimes helps because I then hear the voices....
 

Ichatdelune

Long live the Queen and her successors
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Country
South-Korea
Oh the fellow feeling here.... have you tried clustering?
http://www.efrogpress.com/2014/07/22/clustering-a-prewriting-technique-that-overcomes-writers-block/

It sometimes works for me, as does simply sitting and writing the first rubbish that comes into my head just to get going (it very carefully gets deleted later of course :laugh: )

I love those character ideas! Do you 'cast' your characters? I find that sometimes helps because I then hear the voices....

Tried clustering, now I have like 10 more ideas/fragments and 0 new stories (deep sigh) but thanks a million. I guess I'll have to wait again for my cat of a muse to come with one that'll make me just unable to stop typing, in the meantime I can always write like three sentences then erase everything :eek:hwell:
 

Ichatdelune

Long live the Queen and her successors
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Country
South-Korea
I just got scolded by maman for being up at 3:40 am, I got caught because I couldn't help scream out in delight when the talented and cute :eek:: Oh Sanguk won his first individual World championship. I was just watching because well it's the off-season and a good-looking Korean who does well is always nice to watch, but I think I might kinda be into the sport of Sabre Fencing now... :eek:
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Tried clustering, now I have like 10 more ideas/fragments and 0 new stories (deep sigh) but thanks a million. I guess I'll have to wait again for my cat of a muse to come with one that'll make me just unable to stop typing, in the meantime I can always write like three sentences then erase everything :eek:hwell:

"Writer's block.... when your imaginary friends won't talk to you."
 

hanyuufan5

✨**:。*
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
Looked up Oh Sanguk, and wow, he is tall! (And definitely cute. :eek::)

Here's a random confession: I haven't met many Koreans, but every single one I have met has been taller than my tiny self. Too bad no one ever took a picture from behind of my Korean classmate and me in middle school gym class. It would have been such a great April Fool's prank to try to pass it off as Yelim Kim and Anna Shcherbakova warming up for the 2018 JGPF. :laugh:
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
A colleague has tweeted "If you are interested in doing a postdoc in my group, please don't start your email with "Dear Madam"". It is so annoying to see such ignorance in academia. There are many countries and cultures that are teaching "Dear Madam" and "Dear Sir" as a respectful way to address people you have not met before. I and husband and many others confronted this colleague but she insists that she has the right to be called "by the degree that she has earned". Like I do not have a PhD, seriously...:unsure:

Have we earned PhD just to urge people to call us Doctor or Professor? Does it give us the right to reject people's applications without looking at their scientific background? Just because they did not call us by our degree?
 

hanyuufan5

✨**:。*
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
Wow, and shaming the person on Twitter, too. Think of it this way: that postdoc dodged a bullet.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Wow, and shaming the person on Twitter, too. Think of it this way: that postdoc dodged a bullet.

Exactly!!! But it is so sad to see that comment has more than 100 likes. We are academics for God sake, we are not supposed to encourage such egoistic behaviours :noshake:
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Exactly!!! But it is so sad to see that comment has more than 100 likes. We are academics for God sake, we are not supposed to encourage such egoistic behaviours :noshake:

That is really sad, with that explanation. Spousal unit, now emeritus, earned his doctorate in 1974, and I can't think of a time where he insisted on using the title at his university. Honorifics don't mean much in our household.;)

That said, in the US "Dear Sir" can be seen to be far too impersonal for someone looking for a position. In my (non academic) work, it would be expected that you would at least try to look up the name of someone in the company, even if a total guess. So if the Chair of the Department is Yuzuru Hanyu:biggrin:, you would be expected to figure that out and write "Dear Professor Hanyu" or some other more personalized greeting.

Also, some women my age would get worked up about being called Professor or Dr. because they did not want to be assumed to be staff or secretaries or some other gender specific job. As a female person myself, I never got that, and hoped that it was different for the younger folk today:)
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
El Henry made some valid points.

Using Professor Lastname or Dr. Lastname is much more personal than "Sir" or "Madam".

Her point about confusing Professors and other staff is also valid.

Also, many women prefer gender-neutral terms. There are many available, and using Sir or Madam implies (maybe) that the Madam Professors are less or inherently different from the Sir Professors. Would you call a woman physician a "Lady Doctor"? Maybe you would, but if I were a physician and a patient referred to me that way (or called me ma'm), I would correct them. And if they persisted in the face of correction, I would kick them out of my practice.

I don't know why you felt you needed to confront your colleague. She has a right to be called by her preferred title, as long as it is accurate (for example, a sessional lecturer shouldn't ask to be called professor).

It wouldn't be fair to reject a student for using ma'm once, but if it continued after correction, that would show unwillingness to learn and a lack of respect.

You can have your students call you honeybunch if you want, but your colleagues deserves to have their preferences respected as well.

I was at a University where the graduate students were asked to call the department secretary by her first name. Students from some other cultures were uncomfortable with that, and those students were allowed to call her "Mrs. Anna." Everyone was happy and no one felt disrespected or disrespectful.

My daughter is a Doctor (PhD) Professor, and she does not answer to ma'm. If students can't handle Prof Lastname, Prof Firstname, Dr Lastname, Dr Firstname, or Firstname, she will answer to Sir.
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Well, according to Miss Manners (American doyenne of all things etiquette and a joy to read as well) addressing yourself, or insisting on being addressed, by your professional title is actually poor etiquette in the US, at least socially.

I work at a university in a, shall we say culturally relaxed? country :biggrin: which has an international student intake from all over the world. Both the academics and the admin staff get used to, and accept, a wide range of approaches, from "Hey Joe" to "Greetings to your most noble, esteemed and august self" (and no I am not kidding, even the clerical staff get something like that from some countries. You learn to compromise on what makes them comfortable as well)

I do agree that if you are approaching academic staff by phone or email, it's pretty much a given that you at least try to find out the name of the right person... though given the labyrinthine nature of places such as ours, I never blame them for trying, failing and going for something as neutral as possible :laugh:
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I don’t think that the professor did anything wrong by saying I prefer Doc so and so.

I think she was incredibly wrong for shaming a job applicant on social media. For reals? Your self worth depends on an honorific?:sarcasm:

Spousal unit tried and tried to get students to call him by his first name, to no avail. “Hey Joe” would have sufficed:laugh:
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
I don’t think that the professor did anything wrong by saying I prefer Doc so and so.

I think she was incredibly wrong for shaming a job applicant on social media. For reals? Your self worth depends on an honorific?:sarcasm:

Actually, shaming anyone you deal with on social media in this day and age is IMO like holding a large sign saying "I am Naive, Stupid or Both". Haven't we all seen how fast, unexpectedly and devastatingly it can backfire?
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Thank you everyone for sharing your opinion. Honestly, it was very educational for me especially hearing the opinions from the other side. What we argue is the three points that:

1. There are many cultures where people learn to address their professors Sir/Madam as the correct and respectful manner. If you have an Indian student, for example, you will notice that for the first few months he/she addresses you that way. We think a part of being inclusive in academia is to understand and respect other cultures.

2. If you don't like the way someone addresses you, it does not mean that you disvalue his/her scientific background and do not consider his/her application. Even if it is not your intention, you may convey this feeling to the rest of community by the wrong choice of words or tone. The impression that we received through tweets and replies was that applicants are being dismissed for a very non-scientific reason. Frankly, you can have any reason, let it be logical or stupid, for hiring people but you better not share them with the whole community.

3. A person that applies for a postdoc position has already earned a PhD. When they are applying for a first year Assistant Professor they are not that different from that person. Only, that assistant professor has got his/her PhD two years before them. I am also a first year Assistant Professor and trying to hire people and I deeply believe that a post-doc fellow is a colleague that works with me not for me.

Maybe these are minor details for some people but I think are very important to notice by a young faculty. Sorry for long rambling :pray: It's random confessions anyhow :)
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Well, according to Miss Manners (American doyenne of all things etiquette and a joy to read as well) addressing yourself, or insisting on being addressed, by your professional title is actually poor etiquette in the US, at least socially.

I work at a university in a, shall we say culturally relaxed? country :biggrin: which has an international student intake from all over the world. Both the academics and the admin staff get used to, and accept, a wide range of approaches, from "Hey Joe" to "Greetings to your most noble, esteemed and august self" (and no I am not kidding, even the clerical staff get something like that from some countries. You learn to compromise on what makes them comfortable as well)

I do agree that if you are approaching academic staff by phone or email, it's pretty much a given that you at least try to find out the name of the right person... though given the labyrinthine nature of places such as ours, I never blame them for trying, failing and going for something as neutral as possible :laugh:

The thing is these applicants are replying to our job ads. They know our name, address,... and their cover letter/email, most of time, covers areas of our research and how they can contribute to it (after all it is a postdoc application from someone who is already Dr. someone). It is just they arrange the title of their emails in a way that they are taught as being respectful. As simple as that. We don't think we should get offended or judge these applicants from a biased point of view :shrug:
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
Well, according to Miss Manners (American doyenne of all things etiquette and a joy to read as well) addressing yourself, or insisting on being addressed, by your professional title is actually poor etiquette in the US, at least socially.

I think the magic word here is "socially". You don't expect your neighbors, friends, plumber, or mother to address you by your professional title. But in a professional setting, you do or might. Especially if the alternative is or can be regarded as sexist.

I have an unusual dual relationship with one of the many doctors I see semi-regularly. One is related to a friend/neighbor, and she naturally talks about him by his first name. I have also met him and talked to him several times.

I have to remember that he's Dr Lastname when I talk to him or his staff. When I actually see him, he looks at me like he's never seen me before in his life, and he may genuinely not recognize me out of context. So it's not so much like he is two different people whether he's in the office or outside, but like I am two different people depending on the context.

I haven't slipped up yet. It's highly unlikely that I would actually call him by his first name, but I might slip with his staff. And you know, I think they'd know who I mean!


I do agree that if you are approaching academic staff by phone or email, it's pretty much a given that you at least try to find out the name of the right person... though given the labyrinthine nature of places such as ours, I never blame them for trying, failing and going for something as neutral as possible :laugh:

My point is that Madam is about as un-neutral as you can get. Professor or Doctor are both neutral in the circumstances. Professor is safer as it is the person's actual title.

I was also taught, back in the dark ages, to head business letters with "Dear Sir or Madam". That seems so strange and stilted to me. So if you're writing to the phone company, what do you put? Dear billing clerk? Dear you? Dear reader? Dear Telus? I usually just skip the salutation and cut right to the body of the letter.
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
I think that your colleague has a right to be addressed as Professor, if that's what they prefer.

However, such requests should be made politely and in a respectful manner, and preferably privately. Certainly not through a twitter rant.

Rejecting applications based on use of certain words could be interpreted as discrimination based on race or country of origin. It is unfair both to the applicants and to the University/research group, as it is replacing an evaluation of what should count (credentials, areas of interest) with something quite superficial.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Again, I thank you all that share your opinions. As a non-American who is working in the US it is really precious for me to learn about different perspectives on social/professional encounters like this :thank:
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland
I think the problem is that “Sir” and “Madam” are used all the time in all sorts of contexts in America. Just answering a simple yes or no question, the answer is invariably followed by “Sir” or “Madam”. So, they have lost their air of respect.

Over on this side of the Atlantic in the British Isles, “Sir” and “Madam” are only ever used in a formal context. And in formal letters (such as job applications), it is expected that they are used. It is seriously frowned upon to address somebody by a form of their actual name in a formal letter.

As for using titles, it depends on the context. As NanaPat said, you would never call a medical doctor by their first name. It is always “Dr. W”. Same with teachers – it is always “Mr. X” or “Miss Y”, or “Mrs. Z”. It’s a way of showing respect.

The exception is when there are multiple people in the workplace with the same surname, and you have to differentiate them. At the High School I went to, all the teachers in the History Department were from one of two families. A set of brothers, and a father and son. Interestingly, how they were referred to evolved over time:

BrothersFather And Son
At start“Mr. Last Name Initial”“Mr. Last Name Junior” and
“Mr. Last Name Senior”
After 2 or 3 years“Mr. Last Name First Name”
Last couple of years“First Name Last Name”

With the latter set, the father’s brother also taught at the school, but in the English Department. He was actually the Vice-Principal, and he got called by his title of “Dr. Last Name”. Funnily enough, the other male VP had the same surname as the brothers in the History Department, but was not related to them. I can’t actually remember how he was referred to in formal circumstances, but I do remember what all the pupils called him behind his back... :p

EDIT: I do remember now. It was “Mr. Last Name VP”.​

And just to complete the set, the female VP and her son both taught in the PE Department. But, as there was no danger of getting them confused, “Mrs. Last Name” and “Mr. Last Name” was sufficient.

I have some of my former teachers as friends on Facebook. And even now, I still refer to them the same way as I did when I was at school. Even though they have all told me that I can use their first name now, it just doesn’t feel right. Especially since one of them actually told my class off when we were at school for using her first name. I may get on really well with them, but I still feel really uncomfortable using their first names.

Now, I don’t know if the School Of Archaeology was more relaxed than other schools at the University I went to, but all the staff were referred to by “First Name Last Name”. It may have been different in other Schools, but I just plain don’t know. On the one hand, after referring to teachers by their title all the way through school, it was strange doing it like this when there weren’t surname clashes. But, on the other hand, we weren’t dealing with academic titles when we were at school; we were dealing with social titles. So, referring to people by academic titles would have been strange.

Here’s a couple of funny stories. Ever since my Mum’s younger brother got his PhD, when my Granny has been posting him birthday cards or whatever, she has always addressed the envelope “Dr. First Name Last Name”. And he HATES being referred to like that. He prefers to keep his achievements quiet. One time that my Granny was in hospital, she was bragging to the staff that her son was a doctor. And, understandably, they assumed he was a doctor of medicine. Except, he is actually a doctor of geology! :laugh:

Then you come to one of my Dad’s brothers. He always insists on him and his wife being called “Uncle First Name” and “Auntie First Name” by their nephews and nieces. And he always corrects them if they don’t. Perhaps unsurprisingly, their daughter always refers to her Aunts and Uncles in this way.

Just to finish off, one thing I really hate is the way that when somebody in the public eye is given a title of honour, the media start calling said person by that title all the time, and never use the name that said person have been called their whole life up to now. So, most of the time, you haven’t a clue who they’re talking about! Like, it is ridiculous the number of times over the past few years that there has been a story in the news, and I have thought that it was about some of these elderly cousins of the Queen’s, and it has turned out to be about Prince William and Kate Middleton! And now it is happening all over again with Prince Harry and Meghan Markle.

Oh, and that just reminded me of another thing. I hate the way that when somebody dies, the media suddenly stops referring to their namesake child as “XXXX Junior”. They start calling them just “XXXX”. Which is highly confusing, because after hearing this name used to refer to the parent for so long, you still think they are talking about the parent.

OK, so I have waffled on about so much that I don’t know any more what the point I was trying to make was. :laugh: But, I hope you found my ramblings interesting.

CaroLiza_fan
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
I was also taught, back in the dark ages, to head business letters with "Dear Sir or Madam". That seems so strange and stilted to me. So if you're writing to the phone company, what do you put? Dear billing clerk? Dear you? Dear reader? Dear Telus? I usually just skip the salutation and cut right to the body of the letter.

I sometimes get "To Whom It May Concern" (an on a bad day have to fight the urge to write back with "Yours Sincerely, Not Concerned in the Least"

Problem is, whatever we use is possibly going to offend/irritate someone...
 
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