2017 Canadian Nats Senior Mens SP

4everchan said:

well we agree on that... the top 4 or 5 skaters nowadays pretty much all score the same in PCS... I have only seen 2 of these guys so far... Patrick should be scored much higher than the other in PCS.

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It's an area where Chan is the best, period. But that is not reflected in the scoring. It really is like giving the same number of points to a great triple lutz and a great quad toe.

I felt for Liam but really the judges could have hammered him. He needed to skate clean if he didn't even try a quad or a triple axel and he wasn't. Plus the delay with the suspenders and catching up to the music while not a deduction should have reduced score. I am sorry Liam really does not fit in with the current movement in skating. As for Balde - great energy.

Saddened by the viciousness of some posters towards Liam. Sounds like he is not a human being

xox said:

Saddened by the viciousness of some posters towards Liam. Sounds like he is not a human being

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I don't think it's vicious to question how judging for Liam at previous nationals has been, to be honest, out of sync with what he gets internationally.

Or to question how those placements have impacted the well-being and development of equally promising skaters with different strengths.

As I said earlier...saw the promise in him 3 years ago, and am saddened that it hasn't been fulfilled by his becoming a fully rounded skater. He was and is beautiful to watch, even without jumps.

But this is sport, and I want the judging be as realistic and reputation-effect free at every event.

And on the suspenders, there is quite a history of posters raising concern about suspenders [especially in dance and pairs where they can be an actual hazard]......we've all been waiting for a major fail in some skater's program...

...As Kurt Browning says, if the vocals or the bow tie or whatever doesn't add more than it risks, don't use it. And so, the exasperation when inevitably a skater had a costume failure with suspenders, is not just about Liam...

Lastly, there is a deduction in the IJS for costume failures, and for stopping the program for more than a certain amount of time. Keegan Messing was given no latitude at all at ACI 2016 when a skate came untied....folks expected the same, in fairness, for Liam.

kresslia said:

Not gonna lie. Bit tired of hearing about Liam's skating skills every time he screws up at Nationals. He doesn't have the jumps. Never has, never will. Skating skills can only get you so far

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I browse these threads from time to time, but after reading the vitriolic comments today I felt the need to actually create and account and address the absolutely hateful garbage I have read today from you and a couple of other people.

It is one thing not to like a skater, disagree with their scores and offer constructive criticism. You however, are a nasty piece of work my friend!
I wonder would you go up to this poor kid, who has just had a devastating performance, after presumably hours upon hours of practice and hard work and say this to his face. Not just Liam, but all of these kids work and train so hard, I am completely beyond shocked at this garbage you are spewing.
It is hateful, mean and hurtful.

The kid has had success, I feel this is somehow personal for you.

I will no longer browse any of these threads for info and updates, and will encourage others to avoid them, hopefully cyber bullying keyboard warrior trolling will be dealt with on this forum and some point.

God forbid you have a friend, child or person for whom you care that struggles and has to deal with someone like you.

I hope beyond hope that this kid's family doesn't see this garbage. Heartbreaking on so many levels for you to be so nasty.

Sending this to a few of you who need a wake up call on how to treat other human beings.

Done and done with ever coming on here again.

Should you feel the need to reply to this, do so by all means, I however will not be reading it.

TGee said:

I don't think it's vicious to question how judging for Liam at previous nationals has been, to be honest, out of sync with what he gets internationally.

Or to question how those placements have impacted the well-being and development of equally promising skaters with different strengths.

As I said earlier...saw the promise in him 3 years ago, and am saddened that it hasn't been fulfilled by his becoming a fully rounded skater. He was and is beautiful to watch, even without jumps.

But this is sport, and I want the judging be as realistic and reputation-effect free at every event.

And on the suspenders, there is quite a history of posters raising concern about suspenders [especially in dance and pairs where they can be an actual hazard]......we've all been waiting for a major fail in some skater's program...

...As Kurt Browning says, if the vocals or the bow tie or whatever doesn't add more than it risks, don't use it. And so, the exasperation when inevitably a skater had a costume failure with suspenders, is not just about Liam...

Lastly, there is a deduction in the IJS for costume failures, and for stopping the program for more than a certain amount of time. Keegan Messing was given no latitude at all at ACI 2016 when a skate came untied....folks expected the same, in fairness, for Liam.

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People need to take a page from your book on this forum!
I truly applaud your unbiased and clearly well thought out concerns and opinions. Whether or not someone agrees with you, you made your points clearly and without nastiness or just flat out meanness.
I mean this in all seriousness, people on here should really read this a a study on how to behave online and treat others.

unbelievable said:

People need to take a page from your book on this forum!
I truly applaud your unbiased and clearly well thought out concerns and opinions. Whether or not someone agrees with you, you made your points clearly and without nastiness or just flat out meanness.
I mean this in all seriousness, people on here should really read this a a study on how to behave online and treat others.

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Thank you for your kind words....:

TGee said:

I don't think it's vicious to question how judging for Liam at previous nationals has been, to be honest, out of sync with what he gets internationally.

Or to question how those placements have impacted the well-being and development of equally promising skaters with different strengths.

As I said earlier...saw the promise in him 3 years ago, and am saddened that it hasn't been fulfilled by his becoming a fully rounded skater. He was and is beautiful to watch, even without jumps.

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I saw 2011 nationals live and Chan was in a category all his own, with Shawn Sawyer a clear second. Then, of the rest of the skaters, Liam is the one who really stood out immediately. His skating skills are reminiscent of Chan, but unfortunately he struggles with the jumps. I've never thought he was unfairly held up over other skaters in Canada. Many of them in the medium tier struggle with the jumps, on one day and off the next. But what's always on are Liam's gorgeous skating skills, for which he deserves to be richly rewarded. It's not the Canadian judges' fault that four or five quads means an automatic PCS boost to the international judges.

In fact, I felt so, so sorry for him that someone talked him out of his rightful place competing last year at worlds. He could scarcely have done worse than Nyugen who didn't even make the free skate. I felt like that should have been his opportunity. He was totally robbed of having that experience.

I live in hope that he puts the jumps together one day, but even if he never does, I will have enjoyed immensely watching him skate.

My recap of the event ( which by the way I rejudged with the nationals in "the judges table" ) went something like this.

Ice Dance:

OMG V/M are a wonder to watch.. seriously.. how can they get better? They are SO GOOD! I also really really liked W/P FD and both skates by G/P. Canada is pretty strong in the ice dance category. Will be interesting to see which of the new slates of teams stay and make a push for podium in the next few years if at all.

Women:

Kaetlyn Osmond this year is the Canadian girl to beat hands down. She isn't perfect yet but she's leaps and bounds over last year. Her Skate Canada Int. SP score was only 1.9 points from Medvedeva. The other two girls have a bit of work to do. Gabby had improved a lot this year as well. I love her speed. I wish all 3 of the women could make it to worlds.. who knows next year at olympics.. with some good skates by both girls Canada has the potential for 3 spots next year!! 8th and 5th? Possibility is there!

Men:

UGH.. lol.
not the most perfect even I have seen men skate but it is what it is. Patrick was by far the cream of the crop. For worlds though Patrick is going to have to skate 1000% clean to hope for a medal. There are too many men doing more quads than him that have scores far beyond what he's got this year. The others that stood out to me were Nic Nadeau for his SP.. what a great skate to see. That Elvis number was fantastic. Keegan Messing's FS.. also very well done. He deserved that move up to 5th overall. I can honestly say though Reynolds and Nam have a lot to work on. Their speed is just not there. I find it painfully slow to watch. Even with some good jumps.. I really dont see those boys pushing for any podium at worlds ever. Even Kevin with his quads.. his PCS scores will be far too low to catch anyone. IMO Kevin and Nam are very lucky to have places where they did. I feel is Nic had skated two clean skates and Keegan had skated two clean skates then they would of been very likely to challenge those podium spots. What happened to Liam?!?! poor guy, he just looked terrible on that ice. His heart wasn't there this year. I was really hoping he was going to do well.


Pairs:

Very nice to see D/R skate clean. Well done by them. The other pairs that skated didnt shock me, no one in the standings really wowed me. I do however LOVE that new pair of Ruest and Wolfe. They have some fantastic lines and chemistry for such a new team. I can't wait to see what they come up with after a year or two of being together and once they figure out timing etc. They had a GREAT SP.

Out of curiosity, why did 21 men compete at this year's Nationals when 18 is usually the maximum? The ladies' event had 18 competitors.

siberia82 said:

Out of curiosity, why did 21 men compete at this year's Nationals when 18 is usually the maximum? The ladies' event had 18 competitors.

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because 3 guys (roman, nic and keegan) went to golden spin and didn't attend challenge so the fed decided to include the 18 from challenge plus those 3