2017 U.S. Nationals Championship Men SP | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2017 U.S. Nationals Championship Men SP

Nathan13

Medalist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Karne, I DO know how much you love Max and I just don't understand how he seems to have fallen out of favor with "Some" of the judges. It's so clear to me how far he's come since he won his Championship in 2013. He has done everything right and even took the risk to take on a new SP just for Nationals. Even without Adam, the US still has a deep group of Men. It's how they perform under pressure that I care about. Nathan was under a Tremendous amount of pressure at the GPF and unless he falls more than once, I'm sure he'll win. It's the Silver Medalist who needs to be able to deal with this time. Nathan has proven he can beat the best in the world when he defeated Patrick and Javi. The new #2 needs to bring it at Worlds. I don't know it will be but, there's almost as much pressure on him as he needs to get that 3rd spot back for the US.

Actually, I would say that Nathan wasn't (comparatively) under all that much pressure at the GPF--he was not a favorite to medal against the likes of Patrick, Javi, Yuzuru, and even Shoma...If he ended up 5th or 6th it wouldn't have surprised anyone. At Nationals though, he is the heavy favorite, and everyone expects him to hit all of his quads (and his 3A's) like he did at the GPF. I think he's definitely going to World's no matter what, but I'm interested to see how he performs as the heavy favorite instead of the outside chance.
 

shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Karne, I DO know how much you love Max and I just don't understand how he seems to have fallen out of favor with "Some" of the judges. It's so clear to me how far he's come since he won his Championship in 2013. He has done everything right and even took the risk to take on a new SP just for Nationals. Even without Adam, the US still has a deep group of Men. It's how they perform under pressure that I care about. Nathan was under a Tremendous amount of pressure at the GPF and unless he falls more than once, I'm sure he'll win. It's the Silver Medalist who needs to be able to deal with this time. Nathan has proven he can beat the best in the world when he defeated Patrick and Javi. The new #2 needs to bring it at Worlds. I don't know it will be but, there's almost as much pressure on him as he needs to get that 3rd spot back for the US.

It required some major bombing from both these guys though. Both of their free was about 35-40 points below their PB. None of the top 3 guys brought it in the free because even Hanyu was 30+ points below his PB.

We have yet to see how Nathan stacks up to champs when they're all in top form. I would not be so quick to crown him as the "new #2" based on one competition this season.
 
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mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Actually, I would say that Nathan wasn't (comparatively) under all that much pressure at the GPF--he was not a favorite to medal against the likes of Patrick, Javi, Yuzuru, and even Shoma

This is true. However, with Adam out. Nathan is the skater on top the Worlds Radar when it comes to the US Men. His performance at the GPF was praised by the BESP guys and also on the Russian feed and those are the only two I listened to. I'm sure that Javi and Patrick will be watching to see how Nathan performs at Nationals. This is going to be a very exciting event and more than anything, I want these skaters to go clean and let chips fall where they may....
 

Nathan13

Medalist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
This is true. However, with Adam out. Nathan is the skater on top the Worlds Radar when it comes to the US Men. His performance at the GPF was praised by the BESP guys and also on the Russian feed and those are the only two I listened to. I'm sure that Javi and Patrick will be watching to see how Nathan performs at Nationals. This is going to be a very exciting event and more than anything, I want these skaters to go clean and let chips fall where they may....

Indeed, this is my impossible wish as well. There's also the Vincent Zhou wild card---has anyone heard if he is going to try the 4Lz in KC?
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
It required some major bombing from both these guys though. Both of their free was about 35-40 points below their PB. None of the top 3 guys brought it in the free because even Hanyu was 30+ points below his PB.

We have yet to see how Nathan stacks up to champs when they're all in top form. I would not be so quick to crown him as the "new #2" based on one competition this season.

I certainly don't think Nathan is the new World #2. I still can't imagine how he beat Patrick and Javi but, I don't think it will happen again. Especially not this year. However, Nathan has certainly made a name for himself and I doubt he'll ever be "overlooked" by anyone again. I think the US Judges are rightly going to hold him up due to his GPF performance and unless he bombs, I would agree with their sentiment. Like I said.....it's all about who gets the Silver.....
 
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Heleng

Medalist
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Country
United-States
I'm personally finding it virtually impossible to decide who I want to be on the World team this year. I honestly love all three of the front runners - Jason, Max, Nathan - for different reasons. I think each of them is capable of making an excellent showing at Worlds to gain the U.S. three OG spots, and I wish they all could go. It will be heartbreaking for the one who can't. I'm also rooting for Tim, Grant, and Ross, beautiful skaters all, to skate to the best of their abilities and place highly.
 
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merrywidow

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
I can't be the only person who thinks that a clean Max will beat Nathan, Can I? I definitely see Nathan on the team but I still think Max is the Man.

I agree totally with you. Whether the judges will agree is another subject. Somehow I don't see them sending our 2 most consistent jumpers to Worlds. They have to keep one spot for an artistic skater, don't they?
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
I agree totally with you. Whether the judges will agree is another subject. Somehow I don't see them sending our 2 most consistent jumpers to Worlds. They have to keep one spot for an artistic skater, don't they?

This is going to be a sad Nationals for whomever finishes 3rd. Depending on how they skate, I still think I'd send Max and Nathan. Here's why. As artistic as Jason is, He's not strong enough to overcome the PCS of Hanyu, Javi, Patrick, or IMO, Mikhail Kolyada. He definitely didn't have a great GP and missed the final. Granted, so did the rest of the Men. With Adam out, I'd half to rely on the strongest, most consistent jumpers. Right now, that looks like Nathan and Max.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
The third place skater would likely get to go to 4CC, which is still a good assignment since it's the test event for the Olympics.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
The third place skater would likely get to go to 4CC, which is still a good assignment since it's the test event for the Olympics.

I have a question for anyone who's had a good look at Jason this year. How is he doing? It really feels like I haven't seen him if forever. I looked over the entrée list again and there are several skaters I haven't seen. Shotaro is another skater I like but I have no idea how's looking. Grant and Ross have been off my radar all year. Lastly, how old is Vincent Zhou? For some reason, I thought he was a Junior.
 
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Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Lastly, how is Vincent Zhou? For some reason, I thought he was Junior.

Vincent competed on the JGP this season. However, he also competed Senior at 2016 Nationals and was entered in a Challenger Series event this season but withdrew.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Jason was almost perfect at Skate America in the free skate - there was a reason the gate marshal was crying, and she was far from the only one. But after that the skate at NHK was likely affected by his injury. Even 80% Jason is going to be wonderful.

Grant and Ross had rough GP series.

Zhou did skate Junior Grand Prix, IIRC?

Three more days until the Bullfighter. Gaaaaaaaaaah.
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
This is going to be a sad Nationals for whomever finishes 3rd. Depending on how they skate, I still think I'd send Max and Nathan. Here's why. As artistic as Jason is, He's not strong enough to overcome the PCS of Hanyu, Javi, Patrick, or IMO, Mikhail Kolyada. He definitely didn't have a great GP and missed the final. Granted, so did the rest of the Men. With Adam out, I'd half to rely on the strongest, most consistent jumpers. Right now, that looks like Nathan and Max.

I think you might be operating under some mistaken assumptions.

Jason's poor performance at NHK - which is what opened the door for Adam to make the GPF - was due to an undiagnosed stress fracture. Had Jason placed fourth or higher at NHK, he would have been at the GPF, not Adam. The rest of his season was very strong. He finished second at Lombardia behind only Shoma, and well ahead of Max. He took gold at Salt Lake City, finishing ahead of Adam. He took silver at Skate America, finishing only behind Shoma and again ahead of Adam. He set a season's best / personal best score of 268.48 at Skate America, which is higher than the PBS of Adam, Kolyada and Max. In fact, Max's best score this season is about 25 points lower than Jason's, and his personal best - set at Skate America last year- is ten points lower than Jason's. The only US man with a higher score this season is Nathan. And Jason's international PCS is higher than Adam's, Kolyada's or Max's - in fact, it's only a point or so behind Shoma's.

Since Jason is still recovering from his stress fracture, it's hard to know how he'll skate or where he'll place at Nats. But when healthy, he's fully capable of scoring as high or higher than either Adam or Max.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
I think you might be operating under some mistaken assumptions.

Jason's poor performance at NHK - which is what opened the door for Adam to make the GPF - was due to an undiagnosed stress fracture. Had Jason placed fourth or higher at NHK, he would have been at the GPF, not Adam. The rest of his season was very strong. He finished second at Lombardia behind only Shoma, and well ahead of Max. He took gold at Salt Lake City, finishing ahead of Adam. He took silver at Skate America, finishing only behind Shoma and again ahead of Adam. He set a season's best / personal best score of 268.48 at Skate America, which is higher than the PBS of Adam, Kolyada and Max. In fact, Max's best score this season is about 25 points lower than Jason's, and his personal best - set at Skate America last year- is ten points lower than Jason's. The only US man with a higher score this season is Nathan. And Jason's international PCS is higher than Adam's, Kolyada's or Max's - in fact, it's only a point or so behind Shoma's.

Since Jason is still recovering from his stress fracture, it's hard to know how he'll skate or where he'll place at Nats. But when healthy, he's fully capable of scoring as high or higher than either Adam or Max.

This is true. The problem as we've seen, is Jason's health. His health caused him to miss the GPF and if he's not healthy, I have no problem with him not making the team. Adam isn't going to Nationals and if Jason is not 100%, I hope he isn't held up and beats Max off his reputation alone. Hopefully, It will play out on the ice and since it's not an Olympic year, there should be no Politics involved.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
This is true. The problem as we've seen, is Jason's health. His health caused to miss the GPF and if he's not healthy, I have no problem with him not making the team. Adam isn't going to Nationals and if Jason is not 100%, I hope he isn't held up and beats Max off his reputation alone. Hopefully, It will play out on the ice and since it's not an Olympic year, there should be no Politics involved.

He says he's at 80 percent strength in that leg, so while not 100 percent...he's closer to full-recovery than being injured. He may be affected by the lack of training time, but we'll see.
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
This is true. The problem as we've seen, is Jason's health. His health caused to miss the GPF and if he's not healthy, I have no problem with him not making the team. Adam isn't going to Nationals and if Jason is not 100%, I hope he isn't held up and beats Max off his reputation alone. Hopefully, It will play out on the ice and since it's not an Olympic year, there should be no Politics involved.

Like all of the guys at Nats, Jason will go out and skate to the best of his ability in the SP and the FS. And just like they did last year, the selection committee will choose the Worlds Team they think is best.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
As with last year, I will not be secure about Max's position on any team unless he wins.

I would not put it past the USFS to decide they can't possibly have two "jumpers", they must have an "artist" somewhere. Nor does Max have the same margins for error that Nathan and Jason do - again, as was proved last year.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Like all of the guys at Nats, Jason will go out and skate to the best of his ability in the SP and the FS. And just like they did last year, the selection committee will choose the Worlds Team they think is best.

I know, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. If someone doesn't skate well under pressure, they should not make the team over someone who does. I know it doesn't happen often and the only time I remember it happening was with Mirai and Ashley. However, that was for an Olympic spot and this is not. I hope they let the scores determine the winner.
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
As with last year, I will not be secure about Max's position on any team unless he wins.

I would not put it past the USFS to decide they can't possibly have two "jumpers", they must have an "artist" somewhere. Nor does Max have the same margins for error that Nathan and Jason do - again, as was proved last year.

Karne. Jason didn't compete and wasn't on the Worlds Team last year. Max was.
 
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