2017 U.S. Nationals Championship Pairs FS

ice coverage · Jan 21, 2017

Hyena said:
Does the USFS *have* to name the team tomorrow? What would happen it they didn't?

Because I think this situation is begging to send top 3 here to 4CC and Scimeca/Knierim to a senior B if there is one, and then make the decision for Worlds. Cain/Leduc are definitely a team of the future, Denney/Frazier had the best results from the first half of the season, Scimeca/Knierim have had the best international results from the last few season, and Castelli/Tran...well, I just like them and want to believe they can pull it together.

Mathman said:
...By the way, in light of the new rules that give the federation more leaway to send anyone they want to worlds, there is no need for anyone to file a "petition" any more.

Per IN, USFS says that Alexa and Chris did file a petition.

https://twitter.com/icenetwork/status/822916887059333121

Which suggests that a petition is necessary.
IIRC, the latest USFS rules say (I'm paraphrasing) that the top five at Nats (including the champion) automatically will be considered in light of the three tiers of criteria.
And that it is possible to consider others -- who file a petition.

Hersh tweeted that tomorrow morning USFS will name the Pairs team for Worlds. And the Ladies team. (Dance team tonight.)
So the question of whether USFS *must* (for some reason) name the team tomorrow seems to be moot.

Just my two cents:

The question of Four Continents is (IMO) trickier this year b/c it is the test event at the Olympic venue.

If Alexa and Chris are looking on track to be ready to compete by the time of Four Continents and want to go, I hope USFS will consider them for a slot there (as well as a Worlds slot).
In a way, perhaps it is less important to send Marissa and Mervin to Four Continents, b/c 2018 apparently will be too soon for him to have citizenship in time for the Olympics. (Pls don't get me wrong: I love Mervin.)

Anyway, congratulations to Haven and Brandon, Marissa and Mervin, Ashley and Timothy, and Deanna and Nate :yay:.

I adore Brandon for taking every opportunity to say how proud he is of Haven. What a lovely partnership.

I knew nothing about Deanna until her partnership with Nate. And I find her to be delightful as well as inspiring.

skatemouse · Jan 21, 2017

ice coverage said:
Per IN, USFS says that Alexa and Chris did file a petition.

https://twitter.com/icenetwork/status/822916887059333121
Which suggests that a petition is necessary.
IIRC, the latest USFS rules say (I'm paraphrasing) that the top five at Nats (including the champion) automatically will be considered in light of the three tiers of criteria.
And that it is possible to consider others -- who file a petition.

Hersh tweeted that tomorrow morning USFS will name the Pairs team for Worlds. And the Ladies team. (Dance team tonight.)
So the question of whether USFS *must* (for some reason) name the team tomorrow seems to be moot.

Just my two cents:

The question of Four Continents is (IMO) trickier this year b/c it is the test event at the Olympic venue.

If Alexa and Chris are looking on track to be ready to compete by the time of Four Continents and want to go, I hope USFS will consider them for a slot there (as well as a Worlds slot).
In a way, perhaps it is less important to send Marissa and Mervin to Four Continents, b/c 2018 apparently will be too soon for him to have citizenship in time for the Olympics. (Pls don't get me wrong: I love Mervin.)

Anyway, congratulations to Haven and Brandon, Marissa and Mervin, Ashley and Timothy, and Deanna and Nate :yay:.

I adore Brandon for taking every opportunity to say how proud he is of Haven. What a lovely partnership.

I knew nothing about Deanna until her partnership with Nate. And I find her to be delightful as well as inspiring.

I think I read that S/K petitioned for 4CC and Worlds just for the reasons you mentioned above. They looked amazing at NYC and I am sure being monitored as they live in Co Spgs. by USFS my guess is this is a good thing? All I know is we need them and need them now our Champion won with a single axel. They need to go! Worlds and 4CC's for S.K !!

gold12345 · Jan 21, 2017

Mathman said:
If I remember correctly the wording in the USFSA bylaws says that I medical bye will be considered in the case of a "dominant" team that cannot compete at Nationals because of injury or illness. Dominant usually means someone like Michelle Kwan, or at least Nancy Kerrigan or Todd Eldredge.

By the way, in light of the new rules that give the federation more leaway to send anyone they want to worlds, there is no need for anyone to file a "petition" any more.

I'd say they are the dominant US pair among US pairs right now on an international level. Anytime they go to Worlds, they've been the highest US finisher. Denney/Coughlin petitioned successfully to Worlds a couple seasons ago. Aside from showing up for events this season, you can't make a case for Castelli/Tran over them. I believe when they are healthy they are stronger than anything Denney/Frazier has put out so far this season as well.

skatemouse said:
I think I read that S/K petitioned for 4CC and Worlds just for the reasons you mentioned above. They looked amazing at NYC and I am sure being monitored as they live in Co Spgs. by USFS my guess is this is a good thing? All I know is we need them and need them now our Champion won with a single axel. They need to go! Worlds and 4CC's for S.K !!

Are you allowed to petition to 4CC too? If they were ready, I'd send them there as well. They were so good for the US last season, and given the field, are probably the only chance at a medal again this season. Plus, it would give them a warmup event for Worlds- not that I think they necessarily need one, as they are relatively experienced, but I'd be curious to know if they are interested.

Weathergal · Jan 21, 2017

Mrs. P said:
One advantage the Knerims have is that they're based in Coloraldo Springs and train at World Arena, so it's likely USFS sees them train regularly and have a good sense of where they're at.

True enough. Please don't get me wrong--I like Scimeca / Knierim (or I guess technically Scimeca Knierim / Knierim

), and I love Alexa's fierceness. I just think it's a big ask to not compete all season and have your first and only competition be Worlds. I'd feel much better with 4CCs being a sort of test skate. But I will certainly be cheering for whoever is selected!

gold12345 · Jan 22, 2017

Weathergal said:
True enough. Please don't get me wrong--I like Scimeca / Knierim (or I guess technically Scimeca Knierim / Knierim ), and I love Alexa's fierceness. I just think it's a big ask to not compete all season and have your first and only competition be Worlds. I'd feel much better with 4CCs being a sort of test skate. But I will certainly be cheering for whoever is selected!

I'd be a little concerned if it was their first Worlds, but it would be their fourth Worlds. One of their cleaner LPs all last season was at their very first event of the year, at Nebelhorn Trophy, and that's in September. So I'm not very concerned about that. They tend to be very consistent aside from the jumping, and their scores are normally pretty good even when the jumps are off, so I don't see any risk in sending them. Castelli/Tran's best total score in their entire career is 176, and S/K could fall literally several times and still hit that number.

ice coverage said:
The question of Four Continents is (IMO) trickier this year b/c it is the test event at the Olympic venue.

If Alexa and Chris are looking on track to be ready to compete by the time of Four Continents and want to go, I hope USFS will consider them for a slot there (as well as a Worlds slot).
In a way, perhaps it is less important to send Marissa and Mervin to Four Continents, b/c 2018 apparently will be too soon for him to have citizenship in time for the Olympics. (Pls don't get me wrong: I love Mervin.)

I had forgotten that this year's 4CC is at the Olympic venue. I agree that if they are on pace to be ready by then, it would be wise to send them there as well.

I don't see a pressing need to send Cain/LeDuc to an ISU Championship event right now. How about a Grand Prix season first. They only have Sr Bs under their belt, and their scores weren't riveting. By Nationals standards, their LP score was quite low today. They are still a new team finding their way.

skatemouse · Jan 22, 2017

gold12345 said:
I'd say they are the dominant US pair among US pairs right now on an international level. Anytime they go to Worlds, they've been the highest US finisher. Denney/Coughlin petitioned successfully to Worlds a couple seasons ago. Aside from showing up for events this season, you can't make a case for Castelli/Tran over them. I believe when they are healthy they are stronger than anything Denney/Frazier has put out so far this season as well.

Are you allowed to petition to 4CC as well? If they were ready, I'd send them there as well. They were so good for the US last season, and given the field, are probably the only chance at a medal again this season. Plus, it would give them a warmup event for Worlds- not that I think they necessarily need one, as they are relatively experienced, but I'd be curious to know if they are interested.

I think that is what phil H wrote in his article but maybe I read that wrong? i thought he mentioned 4CC's and I am sure you can add that and make a case for it as well especially since it is at the Olympic venue and before Worlds.

NAOTMAA · Jan 22, 2017

Mathman said:
If I remember correctly the wording in the USFSA bylaws says that I medical bye will be considered in the case of a "dominant" team that cannot compete at Nationals because of injury or illness. Dominant usually means someone like Michelle Kwan, or at least Nancy Kerrigan or Todd Eldredge.

By the way, in light of the new rules that give the federation more leaway to send anyone they want to worlds, there is no need for anyone to file a "petition" any more.

But this is pairs we're talking about. So I'm sure the standards of "dominant" are A LOT lower then that of Michelle Kwan, Nancy Kerrigan or Todd Eldredge :slink:

The question is do the USFSA care enough about pairs like they do the other three disciplines? Because if they don't care then they will most likely just go with the nationals results regardless of S/K's superior international results :eek:

:

gold12345 · Jan 22, 2017

skatemouse said:
I think that is what phil H wrote in his article but maybe I read that wrong? i thought he mentioned 4CC's and I am sure you can add that and make a case for it as well especially since it is at the Olympic venue and before Worlds.

He mentioned their 4CC silver from last season being a good reason for accepting their petition. No other mention of 4CC, but it would be nice to have as a warmup event for Worlds if they are ready to go.

ice coverage · Jan 22, 2017

Mathman said:
... By the way, in light of the new rules that give the federation more leaway to send anyone they want to worlds, there is no need for anyone to file a "petition" any more.

ice coverage said:
Per IN, USFS says that Alexa and Chris did file a petition.

https://twitter.com/icenetwork/status/822916887059333121
Which suggests that a petition is necessary.
IIRC, the latest USFS rules say (I'm paraphrasing) that the top five at Nats (including the champion) automatically will be considered in light of the three tiers of criteria.
And that it is possible to consider others -- who file a petition. ...

My apologies, MM. My post above was not quite right.

I looked back at Hersh's article.
Although Alexa and Chris did file a petition, the latest USFS language (from what we know) does not say anything about a "need" to petition.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/01/20/214003280/new-rule-impacts-world-team-selection-procedure

So maybe their petition was not required, but was a way for them to make the strongest possible case for themselves???

jimini · Jan 22, 2017

I think if Kayne/O'Shea hadn't pulled out and had finished top 2, Scimeca/Knierim's petition probably wouldn't really be considered. However, with both teams out of Nationals, I could see S/K's petition being more heavily considered.

skatemouse · Jan 22, 2017

Weathergal said:
True enough. Please don't get me wrong--I like Scimeca / Knierim (or I guess technically Scimeca Knierim / Knierim ), and I love Alexa's fierceness. I just think it's a big ask to not compete all season and have your first and only competition be Worlds. I'd feel much better with 4CCs being a sort of test skate. But I will certainly be cheering for whoever is selected!

I'm confused when we say season though. Didn't S/K skate until April of 2016? If you look at terms of that even with the injury if they are back to full training as the article said. I think it is not that much to ask. They are a seasoned team. Still loads of growth in them too. Her fierceness is great true. Well I guess we'll see. Either way 4CC' s and Worlds look to be packed this year. Send our best and pray for top 10.

That said I was rewatching D/F's programs and she is not bending her knee at all there should be much concern there. It is dangerous and looks scary. Not sure that is a good thing. Will that get better? Or is that something she has to put up with skating and landing on a straight leg?

cathlen · Jan 22, 2017

Alexa Scimeca/Chris Knierim are selected for both 4CC and Worlds: http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=90301&type=media The other team is of course Denney/Frazier. Cain/LeDuc join them for 4CC. Interesting decisions. Especially regarding 4CC, cause I thought C/T booked the spot with second place for it.

Nathan13 · Jan 22, 2017

so thrilled that Cain/Leduc get to go to 4CC!!

Kitt · Jan 22, 2017

cathlen said:
Alexa Scimeca/Chris Knierim are selected for both 4CC and Worlds: http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=90301&type=media The other team is of course Denney/Frazier. Cain/LeDuc join them for 4CC. Interesting decisions. Especially regarding 4CC, cause I thought C/T booked the spot with second place for it.

I am happy about this decision to send S/K. I was hoping they would get their title back this year....she is fierce and fearless! Hope they do well at Worlds and 4CC.

Probably USFS considered the fact that C/T can't go to the Olympics......?

LiamForeman · Jan 22, 2017

ice coverage said:
I knew nothing about Deanna until her partnership with Nate. And I find her to be delightful as well as inspiring.

Deanna was such a pleasantly unexpected surprise. She is exquisite as always, I love her posture. If I wasn't a fan of hers 16 years ago, I would not believe she is 34! She looks amazing. And I see a lot of potential. I'd love to see her go to the Olympics.

mintx · Jan 22, 2017

Does anyone have a video of the of S B free skate? I'm happy about both the worlds and 4CC teams.

Skater Boy · Jan 23, 2017

The American team selection is based on what is best for the nation first - to get more spots. Hence why Gracie keeps on getting alternate spots and bumped up the list and how we have the American second team getting bumped out of both 4ccs and worlds. Though perhaps the USFA (LOL) could have told Castelli and Tran that they weren't likely going anywhere. Maybe this is sort of karma for Tran switching countries all the time to go to the olympics or to compete? I know some will get mad - I am of joking of course but going through the American roster it goes much against nationals - I know the criteria is different. I understand they want to give ie chen and bell some more international exposure - I would have loved to seen Zhang go for sentimental sake to 4CCs

semosk8tfan · Jan 23, 2017

I am very confused by the Pairs selections for Worlds and 4CC. The only thing that Mervin and Marissa got out of nationals was a medal. They were so happy on the medal stand, I bet they aren't now. I don't understand this at all.

Chemistry66 · Jan 24, 2017

semosk8tfan said:
I am very confused by the Pairs selections for Worlds and 4CC. The only thing that Mervin and Marissa got out of nationals was a medal. They were so happy on the medal stand, I bet they aren't now. I don't understand this at all.

I'm not quite sure about the order of the Worlds alternates, but the idea for the 4CCs selection seems to be influenced by the fact that this year, 4CCs is in the 2018 Olympic venue. Since Mervin and Marissa are not eligible for the Olympics because of citizenship, USFS may be sending Cain/LeDuc over them for the experience in the chance that C/L are selected for the Olympic team.

2017 U.S. Nationals Championship Pairs FS

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skatemouse

gold12345

Weathergal

gold12345

skatemouse

NAOTMAA

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skatemouse

cathlen

Team Gorgeous Cacti!

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Kitt

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semosk8tfan

Chemistry66

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