2017 Worlds Dance pre-event thread | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2017 Worlds Dance pre-event thread

Ares

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Country
Poland
to be honest, top 10 could evolve in so many ways I can't even....:drama:

I just wish that everyone will go clean and strong - no falls, botched lifts, stumbles, weird twizzle fails and then I wish judging will reflect on actual performances...

deep in my gut I'm expecting a close-knit top 7 or even 8 after SD (if everyone goes clean with same levels, sort of) and A LOT of teams going above 70 pts and regarding FD, it could come about execution...

I am always nervous about twizzles :drama: They can ramdomly let down even the best of the best. About the only team that I always feel comfortable before twizzles is Shibutani / Shibutani and in the past Davis / White around in their last competitive years. Either way twizzle set from all top teams is a spectacular element so often. :thumbsup:
 
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WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
VM are favorites to win and should do so. The bigger question mark for me is if PC have finally figured out how to temper their nerves and deliver two clean skates... or will their recurring mistakes (especially in the SD) give the Shibutani's the opening they have been consistently creeping towards?

The fight for pewter (IMO) is between CB, CL and WP... and that should round out the top 6.


P/C have never been great SD participants. They certainly have the skating skills, so it would be interesting to discuss why this is so. Is it because their contemporary style is somehow conflicting with the demands of a preset pattern? Is it nerves? Do they like to go into the FD as "come from behind" players?
 

Ice Dance

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
P/C have never been great SD participants. They certainly have the skating skills, so it would be interesting to discuss why this is so. Is it because their contemporary style is somehow conflicting with the demands of a preset pattern? Is it nerves? Do they like to go into the FD as "come from behind" players?

Is this accurate? They've been together a long time. I did not follow them as juniors. Looking up their Junior Worlds results, twice they finished higher in the SD and twice higher in the FD.

During their senior seasons, it does appear to be accurate. They finished higher at Worlds in the FD in 2014 & 2015 and higher at Europeans in the FD in 2016 & 2017.

Personally, I preferred their SD program to their FD in 2013-14; but I never saw their Worlds performances that year so I can't speak to how well they performed each dance there. In 2014-15, I would say their FD was clearly stronger than their feel for the Paso Doble. The Paso is a sharp dance, and they did not have the exactitude of some of the other teams. 2016, I think, was just a wash. They didn't compete enough for us to say one way or the other.

This season, I think there are two things. The first is that we have seen nerves. It's always tough to live up to surreal, high expectations, and we saw that at NHK against V&M. The second is that P&C added difficulty to their footwork this season, something I greatly appreciate & that many of us wanted to see. They added it, and guess what? It's hard. I think we have seen this play out in both their dances this season, not just the short. Finally, I believe there are more twizzles required in the footwork sequences this season (perhaps I'm incorrect?), and the twizzles haven't been P&C's best element over the past several seasons in either dance.

But perhaps they are better at their own style and when their backs are against the wall. We'll learn a lot about them as competitors this season and next. There are always new challenges for any championship team. Last year it was injury. This year, V&M's comeback & knowing there is no room for error. And next year will be the Olympics.
 
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Crossover

All Hail the Queen
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
VM first (yawn). PC or Shibs second; CB third or fourth. I wish VM would just get lives and move on.

The current lives of V/M belongs to competitive skating, so I'm very grateful for that as I'm not a type of people more enthusiastic about ice shows than competitive skating. Their Prince SD was so refreshing to my eyes. They are moving on to the next phase of their career for 2018 Olympics, so you need to deal with it. :)
 

Crossover

All Hail the Queen
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
This is the competition that I'm going to be the most nervous about. After the "excitement" at Europeans, I'm going be on pins and needles. :gaah:

The dance podium finishers would probably be a lock, so honestly, I won't be as much nervous about as the other disciplines especially men and pairs, both of which can make complete overturns in the top squads depending on how well they handle their big tricks. However, the Worlds will decides which country can represent in PyeongChang, so the dance event will be exciting for sure. :)
 
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skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
I think Chock and Bates could be the spoilers. I hope that they have used the last month to sharpen up their OD.

I just listened to their teleconference on IN ... you have your wish. :)

This is off-topic, but I can't find where else to ask and I need to finalize my plans for watching all the competitions. It looks like IN will be showing ALL the events, unlike last year when NBC coverage prevents IN coverage. Is this true? I really hope so, as my internet is more dependable than my lake effect TV channels.

:thank: in advance to anyone who answers!

p.s. Go :hap10: Maddie and Evan. I dearly hope you're right about their being spoilers. It would put such a kink in so many people's convictions! Plus, they so deserve to do well.
 
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bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I just listened to their teleconference on IN ... you have your wish. :)

This is off-topic, but I can't find where else to ask and I need to finalize my plans for watching all the competitions. It looks like IN will be showing ALL the events, unlike last year when NBC coverage prevents IN coverage. Is this true? I really hope so, as my internet is more dependable than my lake effect TV channels.

:thank: in advance to anyone who answers!

p.s. Go :hap10: Maddie and Evan. I dearly hope you're right about their being spoilers. It would put such a kink in so many people's convictions! Plus, they so deserve to do well.

Honestly, I think the top 3 is a lock, in terms of the teams, but I think final placements could depend on the performances at the time. I think it will be nail biting.:popcorn:

Places 4 - 6 will provide the most excitement. Evan has tightened up too many times this season on the twizzles and I honestly preferred the first version of their FD. I also find their interpretation of the music disjointed, I always get the vibe watching them skate that they're showing of their elements rather than being true to the overall programme, that doesn't work for music like this, it needs their full and equal committment. As for the SD its a bit too rough for my tastes, its really going to be a struggle.

I find C/Ls SD a yawn but I really love their FD, who knew it would grow on me this much? I find B/S programs contrived but under pressure these two can keep their cool. However, C/L also know how to dig really deep come WC. C/B will be lucky to crack the top 5 this year, somebody has to give them a hand, IMHO.

Vying for places 7 -14, we have G/P, H/D, W/P, S/B, T/T, G/F, F/B-S, N/N. Literally, this is one of the most exciting years to watch Ice dance. I am really excited to watch:yahoo:
 

Mango

Royal Chinet 👑🍽️
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Joined
Apr 5, 2016
^I'm not as sure as you about 4-6. I think there can be movement from those you've placed in 7-14 and those you have in 4-6. We've seen some surprising results this season, even at Grand Prix Final.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
^I'm not as sure as you about 4-6. I think there can be movement from those you've placed in 7-14 and those you have in 4-6. We've seen some surprising results this season, even at Grand Prix Final.

Precisely, this WC could be really unpredictable for a change :)
 
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Astrid56

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
I think Chock and Bates could be the spoilers. I hope that they have used the last month to sharpen up their OD.

I think they will be. If they perform with confidence, they will medal. Of course, the make-up of the judging panel will predict the outcome: if the Eastern block dominates, expect the predicted top 3 to be a lock. If not, there will be some interesting results. If the current trend continues, ice-dancing will lose its appeal.
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
I think they will be. If they perform with confidence, they will medal. Of course, the make-up of the judging panel will predict the outcome: if the Eastern block dominates, expect the predicted top 3 to be a lock. If not, there will be some interesting results. If the current trend continues, ice-dancing will lose its appeal.

Do you mean european judges? or Asian judges?
 

Astrid56

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Do you mean european judges? or Asian judges?

Eastern European Judges. Based on the 4CC/GPF judging results (specifically the PCS), I noticed these judges favored the lyrical, classical ... traditional styles. Look at the top dances - very lyrical ... very traditionally classical even their SDs despite the inclusion of watered down Hip hop/modern movements/patterns. C/B medaled because their competent performances could not be ignored. If the current trend continues, expect the 2018 Olympic Ice dances to be mostly traditionally classical styles (I see the Dubreuil/Lauzon styles dominating _ Marina Zueva coached teams (although the Shibs have slightly changed - I heard they've become very involved in shaping their programs and music) who surprisingly have remained true to their skating styles but D/L's influence remarkably strong on their teams with the exception of V/M). Anyway, I bet, only the ones who are not high-ranked will try new approaches as they have nothing to lose and they just want to be noticed. The Shibs advanced because they learned the way to go ... After the 2015-16 season, they've followed the path that led to the success of P/C.
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Eastern European Judges. Based on the 4CC/GPF judging results (specifically the PCS), I noticed these judges favored the lyrical, classical ... traditional styles. Look at the top dances - very lyrical ... very traditionally classical even their SDs despite the inclusion of watered down Hip hop/modern movements/patterns. C/B medaled because their competent performances could not be ignored. If the current trend continues, expect the 2018 Olympic Ice dances to be mostly traditionally classical styles (I see the Dubreuil/Lauzon styles dominating _ Marina Zueva coached teams (although the Shibs have slightly changed - I heard they've become very involved in shaping their programs and music) who surprisingly have remained true to their skating styles but D/L's influence remarkably strong on their teams with the exception of V/M). Anyway, I bet, only the ones who are not high-ranked will try new approaches as they have nothing to lose and they just want to be noticed. The Shibs advanced because they learned the way to go ... After the 2015-16 season, they've followed the path that led to the success of P/C.

The problem is not the lyrical style of the programs of V/M, P/C or Shibs, the problem is that the other options are not better, C/B program is different but that does not mean it is good or better, Aranjuez, 4 seasons and Chaplin are not original neither, the Bollywood program of I/Z is a parody. If you are looking for different to lyrical and good programs you have to G/P, unfortunately their skating is not so great to medal. You can´t say that G/P are being holding back because they are not skating classical or lyrical, their problems are their mistakes.
 

Astrid56

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
The problem is not the lyrical style of the programs of V/M, P/C or Shibs, the problem is that the other options are not better, C/B program is different but that does not mean it is good or better, Aranjuez, 4 seasons and Chaplin are not original neither, the Bollywood program of I/Z is a parody. If you are looking for different to lyrical and good programs you have to G/P, unfortunately their skating is not so great to medal. You can´t say that G/P are being holding back because they are not skating classical or lyrical, their problems are their mistakes.

As regards options, as long as the Ice-dance world is dominated by the same coaches ... judges, innovative change is nearly hopeless. By the way, if you are talking about W/P's Aranquez, C/L's Chaplin and even I/Z's Bollywood _ they all have similar bent/inclination/approach but they differ in the delivery _ tend to be more thematic. Shibs and P/C concentrate more on the 'look' ... lines and shapes. W/P's look has gone softer ....
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Eastern European Judges. Based on the 4CC/GPF judging results (specifically the PCS), I noticed these judges favored the lyrical, classical ... traditional styles. Look at the top dances - very lyrical ... very traditionally classical even their SDs despite the inclusion of watered down Hip hop/modern movements/patterns. C/B medaled because their competent performances could not be ignored. If the current trend continues, expect the 2018 Olympic Ice dances to be mostly traditionally classical styles (I see the Dubreuil/Lauzon styles dominating _ Marina Zueva coached teams (although the Shibs have slightly changed - I heard they've become very involved in shaping their programs and music) who surprisingly have remained true to their skating styles but D/L's influence remarkably strong on their teams with the exception of V/M). Anyway, I bet, only the ones who are not high-ranked will try new approaches as they have nothing to lose and they just want to be noticed. The Shibs advanced because they learned the way to go ... After the 2015-16 season, they've followed the path that led to the success of P/C.

You should call it the lyrical block! Eastern block brings to mind benefit to Russia in historical skating judging terms and they are not benefiting at all. If people here eastern block how do you not think of Russia? These judges are Establishing extreme North American domination.
 

Mango

Royal Chinet 👑🍽️
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Joined
Apr 5, 2016
I feel that Chock/Bates will hit their levels. They can definitely do that. The issue will be PCS. They will be behind the Shibs in PCS. And GOEs likely as well. The Shibs get good PCS and GOEs even if they don't hit their levels. Though I don't expect the same kind of funky judging that we got at 4CC.
 
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