2017 Jr Worlds Short Dance

gmyers said:

The first paragraph is almost like there is no politics except pro Russia politics. That's how it seems to read. Russia did lose all its best talent in coaching and dance and now most work for Americans and Canadians. But like they took their talent but not any politics?

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gmyers said:

US and Canada had no pairs in contention here and both countries share a strident hatred of Russia. That's also true of Britain. You say they don't work together to harm Russia? They are doing so right now. I don't say they were working for Australia just against the Russian team that should have won. Ekaterina is working desperately every day to become Australian so how is giving her team a win good for Russia or even neutral?

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Completely true. Let's not forget that Politics play a part in any judged or subjective activity in the world. It has happened in Gymnastics as well. Any sport that doesn't have a finish line will suffer the same problems. I will also add that judges have preferences and there is absolutely no way around it. I don't know anything about surfing and I remember going to a surf contest in Huntington Beach, here in California. I thought all the surfers were awesome and as a Layman, I didn't understand what made certain moves get bigger scores. It's the same way with skating. Unless you really know from experience, you won't really recognize the difference between good and great skating.

The reason the Zayak rule came into play was because Elaine could whip a crowd into a frenzy by landing a bunch of easy jumps. It takes knowledge to realize that what she was doing, though exciting to watch, was quite simple and deemed to be over scored before they put the rule into place. The amount of training time and skill it takes to learn the varied take offs, arm variations, edges, and landings has finally started to show up in the scores.

Look at the SD judging panel:

KOR UKR RUS POL CZE AUS GER GBR AUT

1 Asian, 1 Australian, all the rest European.

For the FD, 4 of those judges will be replaced by BLR, CHN, ITA, USA

The FD panel could be worse than the SD if KOR, GBR and AUS are gone and RUS and UKR remain. Then the panel will be heavily Eastern Euro/former SSR and we might see a podium with two Russian teams.

Remember when Yanovskaia / Mozgov dominated in the JGP/JW for two seasons and waltzed off with the title?
When they went senior, they bombed badly. It doesn't do much good for a team to be artificially propped up by unbalanced judging panels, because ultimately they have to go on and contend with the top teams in the world. It becomes embarrassing when they just don't measure up.

gmyers said:

We also know about Canadian Jean Senft being suspended for national bias. You don't have to go back to the days of Sonja Henie to find non Russian politics!

The performance of b/k makes me think they should have won. Even with some problems they were so much better than any other team in both the sp and lp. The hatred is not overstated. It's just a fact US Canada and British all hate Russia. And they used the Australian team as a vehicle for their hatred.

She is becoming Australian. All her success is for Australia. Russia benefits in no way whatsoever.

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You are not giving the correct full details about Jean Senft. She was a whistle-blower who was punished. Senft tried to report a Ukrainian judge she thought acted inappropriately at 1998 Olympics but she herself was suspended. The Court of Arbitration for Sport overturned the citation and exonerated her of charges of bias judging. As proof Senft produced a secret recording of the conversation with the Ukranian judge, Yuri Balkov. He was suspended for one year by the isu. The isu then suspended Senft for six months. I've read that the reason for her suspension was for recording the conversation but I was unable to find corroboration.

If you want the full story here are two articles:

http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,203274,00.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/15/sports/sp-olyicedance15
(the part about Senft is in the middle of the article)

chuckm said:

Look at the SD judging panel:

KOR UKR RUS POL CZE AUS GER GBR AUT

1 Asian, 1 Australian, all the rest European.

For the FD, 4 of those judges will be replaced by BLR, CHN, ITA, USA

The FD panel could be worse than the SD if KOR, GBR and AUS are gone and RUS and UKR remain. Then the panel will be heavily Eastern Euro/former SSR and we might see a podium with two Russian teams.

Remember when Yanovskaia / Mozgov dominated in the JGP/JW for two seasons and waltzed off with the title?
When they went senior, they bombed badly. It doesn't do much good for a team to be artificially propped up by unbalanced judging panels, because ultimately they have to go on and contend with the top teams in the world. It becomes embarrassing when they just don't measure up.

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But these are the same judges that do seniors! If the judges are being crooked why not just be crooked in seniors too. Why did they dump y/m? Why not just make them the victors in seniors too. Sometimes Russian skaters can be deserving of victories. I'm not saying I believe that is all the time but you believe it never! Crooked euro judges are always trying to make undeserving Russians the winners in your writing.

blueberryhill said:

You are not giving the correct full details about Jean Senft. She was a whistle-blower who was punished. Senft tried to report a Ukrainian judge she thought acted inappropriately at 1998 Olympics but she herself was suspended. The Court of Arbitration for Sport overturned the citation and exonerated her of charges of bias judging. As proof Senft produced a secret recording of the conversation with the Ukranian judge, Yuri Balkov. He was suspended for one year by the isu. The isu then suspended Senft for six months. I've read that the reason for her suspension was for recording the conversation but I was unable to find corroboration.

If you want the full story here are two articles:

http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,203274,00.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/15/sports/sp-olyicedance15
(the part about Senft is in the middle of the article)

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Guilty people call themselves the heroes all the time. That's senft. Having secret meetings with other judges.

gmyers i know this is a forum but IMHO you are going too far with falsely accusing people of corruption. I will just leave it at that.

4everchan said:

gmyers i know this is a forum but IMHO you are going too far with falsely accusing people of corruption. I will just leave it at that.

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Based on what do you say it is false? Every post of chuckm is about corrupt European judges

gmyers said:

Based on what do you say it is false? Every post of chuckm is about corrupt European judges

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and I have said the same about the other poster. Seriously. Regarding Jean Senft : that's what I was referring to. She was a whistle-blower.

Can someone explain to me CP phenomen? I mean they are obviously talented. Anthony skates great especially for his age it is pretty amazing but I just do not understand how judges score them higher than MC. MC skating skills level is superior. They should be way ahead even when they make small mistakes. MC looks more together as a pair, they skate much closer and faster, their edges way better. I liked Canadien's and French (AT) free dance better than CP.

larat said:

Can someone explain to me CP phenomen? I mean they are obviously talented. Anthony skates great especially for his age it is pretty amazing but I just do not understand how judges score them higher than MC. MC skating skills level is superior. They should be way ahead even when they make small mistakes. MC looks more together as a pair, they skate much closer and faster, their edges way better. I liked Canadien's and French (AT) free dance better than CP.

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M/C made mistakes and C/P had a better program.

Also C/P are better looking. This is ice dance after all.

Nobody gives (or deducts) points for a ''better looking''. I do not think C/P program was better especially given the performance. I just see ''puppy eyes'' not real performance. Germans actually gave the best performance.

larat said:

Nobody gives (or deducts) points for a ''better looking''. I do not think C/P program was better especially given the performance. I just see ''puppy eyes'' not real performance. Germans actually gave the best performance.

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The Germans were just so much fun to watch. :thumbsup: