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- Dec 1, 2015
Vincent Zhou!!! congratulations! I think that's the best he's ever skated! Wow! magnificent:luv17:
2017 Jr Worlds Mens FS
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
That is what is great about both Nathan and Vincent. Despite injuries that could have ended their careers they have come back even stronger. Both had there progress as skaters slowed down by injuries but man they are making up for lost time.
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- Dec 4, 2004
Sorry for not reading 46 pages of posts, but could someone please briefly explain to my wife and I why the judges think Kevin Aymoz's PCSs should be anywhere near Vincent Zhou's? I will go to the marks and see what they say, but Mr. Aymoz's presentation and skating skills and interpretation were dramatically lower In our very humble opinion.....
(OK, I reviewed the marks. I have seen , if the order of judges remains the same, there is no real consensus here, one way or the other....quality seems to be "just what you like". Witness the marks for interpretation of the music....
Zhou Interpretation of the Music 2.00 8.25 7.75 7.75 7.75 7.50 6.75 7.75 7.25 7.50 7.61
Aymoz Interpretation of the Music 2.00 7.00 8.00 8.00 7.50 7.25 7.75 7.75 6.75 7.50 7.54
Three judges gave the nod to Aymoz and two tied????? Really? I dont think so , Tim
Skating skills?
Zhou Skating Skills 8.25 7.75 7.25 7.00 7.75 7.00 7.50 7.25 7.50 7.43
Aymoz Skating Skills 7.25 8.00 7.75 6.75 7.50 7.75 7.75 7.00 7.75 7.54
So a guy with two quads cant skate as well as a guy who cant even do a triple triple????? *
Since there is no clear agreement judge to judge, I call bravo sierra on the PCS grading system.
booooooggguuuuusssssssss.
OK, I feel better!
*Jason Brown is clearly the exception here...NOBODY skates as well as Jason.......
(OK, I reviewed the marks. I have seen , if the order of judges remains the same, there is no real consensus here, one way or the other....quality seems to be "just what you like". Witness the marks for interpretation of the music....
Zhou Interpretation of the Music 2.00 8.25 7.75 7.75 7.75 7.50 6.75 7.75 7.25 7.50 7.61
Aymoz Interpretation of the Music 2.00 7.00 8.00 8.00 7.50 7.25 7.75 7.75 6.75 7.50 7.54
Three judges gave the nod to Aymoz and two tied????? Really? I dont think so , Tim
Skating skills?
Zhou Skating Skills 8.25 7.75 7.25 7.00 7.75 7.00 7.50 7.25 7.50 7.43
Aymoz Skating Skills 7.25 8.00 7.75 6.75 7.50 7.75 7.75 7.00 7.75 7.54
So a guy with two quads cant skate as well as a guy who cant even do a triple triple????? *
Since there is no clear agreement judge to judge, I call bravo sierra on the PCS grading system.
booooooggguuuuusssssssss.
OK, I feel better!
*Jason Brown is clearly the exception here...NOBODY skates as well as Jason.......
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Vincent will be fine. Not being given the PCS benefit of the doubt won't hurt him. He's chasing Nathan, just as Vincent has been doing his entire career; and neither of them are interested in leaving their results up to the vagaries of PCS. The international judges will get to know them--and Cha--better, and as that happens these athletes will get their own benefit of the doubt. Because none of them are truly weak here. Vincent's programs last season were much poorer. PCS is not Tom's strength, but he is good at teaching jump technique and Vincent has reaped the benefits. His material this year with Tammy, however, is a marked improvement, IMO. But Vincent wasn't hitting the jumps on the JGP. He didn't make the JGPF, and that means coming into Junior Worlds at a bit of a disadvantage. But he went back to Tom & worked on those jumps. And . . . here we are. Better programs. Better stretch. Better jumps. Better scores. Next up . . . more national & international respect. He'll be working on the whole package. For the same reason he has been his entire career. He needs it to compete with Nathan. And neither of them are interested in leaving their results to chance.
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- Joined
- Dec 10, 2013
First time seeing him skate but damn I thought I was seeing Jeremy Abbott when Aliev was skating. What a lovely skater.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Nic did a good job of selling his program considering all the technical mistakes.
Roman seems to slow down too much into his jumps, all his jumps were on a lean in the FS and he had 3 downgrades and 3 URs, plus a pop and 2 falls. That's why his score was even lower than Nic's. Roman really needs to carry more speed into his jumps if he wants to get them fully rotated now that he's gotten so tall and filled out a lot. In the SP he seemed less tentative and that's probably why the jumps were clean.
Nic's shoulders seemed to get really high before all the jumps he popped. Probably a nervous habit but I think when you're that tall, timing is even more important and "saving" jumps becomes harder. He seems to skate better when he's relaxed, and then the shoulders stay down and his 3a is butter instead of a huge pop.
Also why are people surprised that Samarin is upset with 3rd? He clearly came into this event wanting to win and probably thought he had a good chance to do that. He beat Aliev and Kovtun at senior Nationals, where he was 2nd. I don't think most people expected Vincent to win in such a dominating fashion.
Sorry for not reading 46 pages of posts, but could someone please briefly explain to my wife and I why the judges think Kevin Aymoz's PCSs should be anywhere near Vincent Zhou's? I will go to the marks and see what they say, but Mr. Aymoz's presentation and skating skills and interpretation were dramatically lower In our very humble opinion.....
(OK, I reviewed the marks. I have seen , if the order of judges remains the same, there is no real consensus here, one way or the other....quality seems to be "just what you like". Witness the marks for interpretation of the music....
Zhou Interpretation of the Music 2.00 8.25 7.75 7.75 7.75 7.50 6.75 7.75 7.25 7.50 7.61
Aymoz Interpretation of the Music 2.00 7.00 8.00 8.00 7.50 7.25 7.75 7.75 6.75 7.50 7.54
Three judges gave the nod to Aymoz and two tied????? Really? I dont think so , Tim
Skating skills?
Zhou Skating Skills 8.25 7.75 7.25 7.00 7.75 7.00 7.50 7.25 7.50 7.43
Aymoz Skating Skills 7.25 8.00 7.75 6.75 7.50 7.75 7.75 7.00 7.75 7.54
So a guy with two quads cant skate as well as a guy who cant even do a triple triple????? *
Since there is no clear agreement judge to judge, I call bravo sierra on the PCS grading system.
booooooggguuuuusssssssss.
OK, I feel better!
*Jason Brown is clearly the exception here...NOBODY skates as well as Jason.......
Jump content has nothing to do with the mark for skating skills. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the ISU judging handbooks before sounding off like that again.
Aliev still my favourite at juniors (two seasons in a row): artistically he's so good and he is much more consistent than before.
I hope the federation will bet on him next season (just like they did with Mikhail Kolyada this year): we know how difficult is for a st. peter skater to stay in the mix, especially if you are more a components skater and you don't always have the jumps to get the marks anyway.
Is it just me or it seems that St. Petersburg skaters are in general much better than Moscow skaters on the second mark?
So what?
I don't get the comparison.
Chen and Zhou have always been wonderkids, US biggest hopes for 2018.
Samarin and Petrov had to work very hard to gain consistency and learn quads, Petrov still has issues with the 4T and i don't think he has never attempted the 4S at least an international competition. Until last season no one believed in Samarin cause he failed to medal at JW so many times under Buyanova and Goncharenko's coaching (CSKA's best coaches). This is a huge achievement for them and possibly a turning point on their careers.
Though i've to say here Petrov deserved higher PCS than Samarin, and maybe even that bronze medal: the first one was an actual performance, the second one more a series of jumps and spins.
I hope the federation will bet on him next season (just like they did with Mikhail Kolyada this year): we know how difficult is for a st. peter skater to stay in the mix, especially if you are more a components skater and you don't always have the jumps to get the marks anyway.
Is it just me or it seems that St. Petersburg skaters are in general much better than Moscow skaters on the second mark?
So what?
I don't get the comparison.
Chen and Zhou have always been wonderkids, US biggest hopes for 2018.
Samarin and Petrov had to work very hard to gain consistency and learn quads, Petrov still has issues with the 4T and i don't think he has never attempted the 4S at least an international competition. Until last season no one believed in Samarin cause he failed to medal at JW so many times under Buyanova and Goncharenko's coaching (CSKA's best coaches). This is a huge achievement for them and possibly a turning point on their careers.
Though i've to say here Petrov deserved higher PCS than Samarin, and maybe even that bronze medal: the first one was an actual performance, the second one more a series of jumps and spins.
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But why with Fernandez, hanyu, Jin, Chen, Zhou, chan, going to competions with multiple quads are Petrov Aliev and Samarin going to events with only one kind of quad? Samarin did 2 quad toes that must be noted but why not two quad toes and another 1 or 2 other quads. Aliev and Petrov only did one quad toe. So there was a development problem in jumps with those skaters. I mean at first I was like they are juniors full time seniors only part time but are they competing Down rather than competing up?
My guess is that russian coaches have a tradition of great male jumpers, so before teaching multiple quads they work more on the quality of these jumps (and aiming for higher GOEs), like the height on the quad.
As i said before both Petrov and Samarin have never been huge talents, so the expectations are not huge: i think Mishin is working on the PCS with Petrov, he has good skating skills, i can see some improvements on the interpretation of these programs although he doesn't have the charisma yet, to me he needs another quad.
With Samarin they are working primarily on jumps so i can see him attempting three quads next season, why not?
Aliev is clearly a PCS skater (just like Denis Ten or Jason Brown), that's why i said before, he needs some push from the federation cause judges don't throw high PCS so easily, especially when you don't have an higher TES than your competitors. Anyway he landed 2 quads with his previous free skate at a GP event earlier this season.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
Sorry for sounding off like I did...not knowing what the book says....oh, wait a minute...I dont see where jumps are excluded in any way from the definition of skating skill. In fact, I am seeing terms and words like "power" and "overall skating skills.
In point of fact, I think "power, balance, flow and edges" are things that judges DO look for in jumps...."
But in general, I do agree that skating skills cover more of the "everything else" other than jumps. Its just on this particular skating comp, Aymoz had a bad day.....all around....and was overscored by certain judges, or the judging system itself for PCS is at fault.
https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/IJS Handbook.pdf
USFS Guide to the IJS Handbook, PDF page 7.
"Skating skills. A measure of overall skating ability...."
http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pair-skating-and-ice-dance/isu-judging-system/introduction
"• Skating Skills which is the overall quality of the skating ability (e.g. balance, cleanness and sureness, flow, edges, multi directional skating, power)"
2016 ISU conference
Skating Skills
Defined by overall cleanness and sureness, edge control and flow over the ice surface
demonstrated by a command of the skating vocabulary (edges, steps, turns etc.), the
clarity of technique and the use of effortless power to accelerate and vary speed.
In evaluating the Skating Skills, the following must be considered:
• Use of deep edges, steps and turns;
• Balance, rhythmic knee action and precision of foot placement;
• Flow and glide;
• Varied use of power, speed and acceleration;
• Use of multi directional skating;
• Use of one foot skating.
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- Jun 18, 2008
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Nadeau is 6'1", so 1 inch shorter than Evan.
Do you think so? As far as I can recall, it was as well as I have ever seen him skate. (Though I didn't watch video of him at French Nationals, and I tend to assume that was his best this season). The truth is that I am so used to seeing Aymoz botch the free that I am just glad when he skates a strong short. TBH, I couldn't tell you what he hit or missed here in this particular free. Where would you say Aymoz has been better? I think it's fair to say he has the most interesting style of any of the non-Russian European juniors. (More interesting than Samarin or Petrov for me). I do enjoy watching him. He doesn't look just like everyone else to me. But . . . headcase central.
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- Feb 20, 2014
Thanks. Then he's very tall too. I saw him last year, and he was already tall then but I am sure he's grown a lot since.
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- Jun 18, 2008
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Nic was 6 ft last year. Conrad may also be 6 ft now because this photo from the Junior Worlds closing banquet (https://www.instagram.com/p/BR71YP7BDST/) shows that he's taller than Roman, who's 5'11".
That "never been a huge talent" had 3A-3T by age 13. So get your facts straight.
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- Jun 18, 2008
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I just wanted to correct my previous post because Sadovsky and Orzel were interviewed on CBC television yesterday (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5h6kc6), and the former looks a little bit taller than the latter, plus they tower over Kurt Browning, who has a hat and may be wearing lifts in his shoes. Roman and Conrad are still growing, so if they haven't already hit 6 ft, they probably will soon.
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