2017 Junior Worlds: Men's recap

gsk8 · Mar 16, 2017

USA's Vincent Zhou jumped to the gold at the 2017 ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships in Taipei City, Chinese Taipei, on Thursday. Russians Dmitri Aliev and Alexander Samarin picked up the silver and bronze medals in what was a very high level competitive event.

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The "quad explosion" of this season continued in the Men's event at Junior Worlds. Spurred on by the development at the senior level, the juniors have upped the ante as well. Ten clean quads were landed and eight more attempted at Taipei Arena.

What are your thoughts on the men's performances?

mrrice · Mar 16, 2017

Absolutely shocked and excited for the US Men. Here I was being worried about keeping 3 spots and they went above and beyond in the free skate. I'm so proud of they way they skated and this means that Andrew has a much easier path for redemption next year. Go USA!!

merrywidow · Mar 16, 2017

So happy for Vincent! I so hope we have 3 spots for the Olympics & maybe see him on that team!

chuckm · Mar 16, 2017

Sad to see Roman Sadovsky struggle with the 3as and URs and drop to 16th place. He has such elegant style, but it seems as if he's never fully adjusted to his growth spurt.

FlattFan · Mar 16, 2017

My thought is they should stop those stupid rules in the SP.
Everyone skated clean in the SP, with the same jumps, 3A, 3Lz-3T, 3Lo. Good god, it's like audition for the same part. So boring.

If they want to not include quads in the SP, they should randomly assign the solo triples

1/3 of the men do solo 3Lz with steps
1/3 do solo 3F with steps
1/3 do solo 3Lo with steps.

adjust your combo based on your assigned solo triple. have some variety. These guys will have to put in quads in the LP anyway, why not have them in the SP. It's not like they can get away with it later.

chuckm · Mar 16, 2017

Because everyone did the same jumps, the SP became a popularity contest with the judges: the PCS scores determined the ranking. With only 1 Asian judge and all the rest European/former SSR, it was not at all surprising that 3 of the 4 top scorers in the SP were Russian.

After 4 events, we have yet to see a NA judge on any panel, and there won't be any in the Ladies events. But the Pairs FS should have both a US and a Canadian judge, and the Free Dance should have a US judge.

noskates · Mar 16, 2017

Well, all in all I guess it was a good decision to send Vincent to Juniors Worlds!!!!

Mathman · Mar 16, 2017

But isn't that the point of the short program? Everyone does the same elements so the judges can compare apples to apples?

FlattFan · Mar 16, 2017

Mathman said:
But isn't that the point of the short program? Everyone does the same elements so the judges can compare apples to apples?

That's the point of the technical program. Even then, Midori got 4th, 5th or some crazy placement for technical program for years. So the judges shouldn't compare apples to apples. they should compare quad lutz to triple lutz, so they can't make a human mistake.

Li'Kitsu · Mar 16, 2017

Mathman said:
But isn't that the point of the short program? Everyone does the same elements so the judges can compare apples to apples?

And the skaters are judged based on qualities that aren't just jump difficulty - like actual skating skills or complex choreo, or the quality of the technical elements like how big the jumps are or how fast the spins? Yes, pretty much. It might also give the guys a bit more incentive to even work on that stuff. But I guess you can see (again) with this how many people don't give a lot about anything but jumps difficulty anymore.

FlattFan · Mar 16, 2017

^ this is stupid.
Senior guys who aren't constrained by jumps in the SP still have to show actual skating skills, complex choreo, quality of jumps and spins. They have to all work on that stuff. Who said it's all about jump difficulty? Ask Hanyu. Ask Patrick. Ask Javier. Ask all of those guys who are improving both TES and PCS.

Mathman · Mar 16, 2017

^ The reason why it is not stupid is this. Why should there even be such a thing as the short program if it is just like the free program, only shorter.

If you can do five quads in 4 and a half minutes and the other guys can can only do triples, then you win. No need to have two programs at all.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 16, 2017

FlattFan said:
My thought is they should stop those stupid rules in the SP.
Everyone skated clean in the SP, with the same jumps, 3A, 3Lz-3T, 3Lo. Good god, it's like audition for the same part. So boring.

If they want to not include quads in the SP, they should randomly assign the solo triples

1/3 of the men do solo 3Lz with steps
1/3 do solo 3F with steps
1/3 do solo 3Lo with steps.

adjust your combo based on your assigned solo triple. have some variety. These guys will have to put in quads in the LP anyway, why not have them in the SP. It's not like they can get away with it later.

How is this even remotely fair? Some guys get edge calls, and not everyone is comfortable with certain jumps.

The SP was excellent because people performed well. Would somebody changing a 3L to a 3F honestly make such a difference? Or maybe you would rather see errors/a splatfest to make things more interesting?

FlattFan · Mar 16, 2017

Mathman said:
^ The reason why it is not stupid is this. Why should there even be such a thing as the short program if it is just like the free program, only shorter.

If you can do five quads in 4 and a half minutes and the other guys can can only do triples, then you win. No need to have two programs at all.

Because who wants to sit and watch 48 competitiors doing 4.5 min each? I don't have time for that. You have the short program as qualifying events, cut them down. I actually wouldn't mind if they just show the top 12, close door on the SP. No one needs to watch the SP.
The other reason is some sports, they make you go twice and take the average.

FlattFan · Mar 16, 2017

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
How is this even remotely fair? Some guys get edge calls, and not everyone is comfortable with certain jumps.

The SP was excellent because people performed well. Would somebody changing a 3L to a 3F honestly make such a difference? Or maybe you would rather see errors/a splatfest to make things more interesting?

How is it remotely fair? You do realize they rotate the solo jump every year, right? You also do realize the solo loop is not a strong jump for a lot of people, right? How is it fair now?

chuckm · Mar 16, 2017

Hanyu (22), Chan (26) and Fernandez (25) have all had years of experience---and plenty of time to refine their skating skills.

You can't expect 13-18 year olds with limited experience to focus on refinement when most of them are still learning technical basics.

liv · Mar 16, 2017

Lots of young talent out there... but my big takeaway is : learn your 4lutz boys.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 16, 2017

FlattFan said:
How is it remotely fair? You do realize they rotate the solo jump every year, right? You also do realize the solo loop is not a strong jump for a lot of people, right? How is it fair now?

Okay. So how is it fair if 1/3 of the guys have to do a triple worth 5.1 points when 1/3 get to do a jump worth 6.0 points?

The solo loop might not be a strong jump for some but most elite junior men can execute it - I mean, was it any issue for many of the guys? Sure didn't look like it.

Li'Kitsu · Mar 17, 2017

chuckm said:
Hanyu (22), Chan (26) and Fernandez (25) have all had years of experience---and plenty of time to refine their skating skills.

You can't expect 13-18 year olds with limited experience to focus on refinement when most of them are still learning technical basics.

I don't know who or what that was referring to, but why do you talk about SS first and then about refinement? That's not even remotely the same. And Chan had great basic skating skills already as a junior, and Hanyus were really good too. I don't think anybody expects the Juniors to show the same 'refinement' as in finished movements/complex choreo ect than the seniors, but you're talking about completely different things there. Good skating skills are definitely something you can expect from a Junior too and that counts as 'techincal basics' (again, not on the same level as Chan of course, but good skating skills in general? Uhm, yes)

chuckm · Mar 17, 2017

Chan struggled with his 3a as a Junior AND a Senior. 3a will never be an easy jump for him.

2017 Junior Worlds: Men's recap

gsk8

mrrice

merrywidow

chuckm

FlattFan

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chuckm

noskates

Mathman

FlattFan

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Li'Kitsu

FlattFan

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Mathman

CanadianSkaterGuy

FlattFan

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chuckm

liv

CanadianSkaterGuy

Li'Kitsu

chuckm

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