2017 Worlds Pairs SP

medvedevasocks · Mar 30, 2017

Based on todays scoring I think Savchenko & Massot will probably end up winning if they skate a clean long with the throw 3 axel. The protocals today show if they landed the 3axel throw cleanly and well they would be up by 2 or 3 points on Sui & Han probably. I think they will still overcome the relatively small deficit they have currently if they do it in the LP.

That is if Sui & Han even skate a clean long program which they never do. Last year they would have won with a clean long program but had 2 major errors and settled for silver when Duhamel & Radford had the skate of their lives. This year I dont think even going clean they are invurnerable if S&M make the throw 3axel, and they have trouble historically ever doing a clean LP.

medvedevasocks · Mar 30, 2017

rain said:
Just came to say how much I enjoyed Sui/Han. The class of the field, by a long way today, IMO. Savchenko and Massot shouldn't have been anywhere close. That short program is another I will watch over and over again. I'm rooting for them for the win all the way.

I was thrilled to see I/M skate so well. I think that's the best I've seen that program all year. So sad for D/R that they're injured at such an inopportune moment. It would be really, really awful for Canada not to get three spots. There are definitely three teams that deserve to go to the Olympics.

I think Canada will hang on for 3 spots, although it will be close. Neither Candian team will medal, but the 2 teams above them are both possible to catch/pass which gives them a bit of breathing room since right now they are on the magic 13. Although there are some teams behind them who could catch/pass them too particularly James & Cipres if they skate well.

I agree it is dissapointing Savchenko & Massot basically fell on their throw triple axel attempt and are still just over a point back of a wonderous Sui & Han performance. As I said I think the judges 1st desire is still a Savchenko & Massot win here if they deliver in the long. Unlike last year where their first desire I believe was for a Sui & Han and they couldnt pull it off even then. That makes me nervous for them, since I really want them to win this year.

Hannah555 · Mar 30, 2017

4everchan said:
hehe i know who Tarasova is i have great respect for what she has done/still does...

.

A little bit off topic: TAT really loves the second canadian pair I|M. When they skated she was so nervous about Lubov's jump. She was saying: Luba, please jump! It felt like she even crossed her fingers. and when she jumped she was soooo happy )))
She also loves canadian girls. And in total she has huge respect to canadian figure skating school. Yesterday she spoke a lot about how special and qualified canadian figure skaters are )))

medvedevasocks · Mar 30, 2017

With Duhamel & Radford almost certainly retiring after the Games Luba & Dylan are setting up nicely to be Canadian #1 very soon. Especialy with Sequin & Bilodeau so injury prone.

Johns · Mar 30, 2017

It's safe to say pair skating these days lacks excellence. Poor chemistry, poor consistency, poor behavior and cockiness, no champion quality, no class. Shameless judges are openly playing ugly games and entirely discredit the system.
The closer the olympics the stronger is the stench!

medvedevasocks · Mar 30, 2017

Marius said:
Thoughts after Pairs SP
Sui/Han: magnificent program. Amazing choreography. brilliant interpretation, Cong is so hot on the ice with this music. Absolutely underscored in comparison with S/M and T/M.
Savchenko/Massot: great interpretation and fun program, but really overscored this time.
Tarasova/Morozov: I don't like their interpretation so much at all, and seeing the positive GOEs on the throw 3 Loop make me angry the other technical elements were great though.
Yu/Zhang: great sophistication and goergeous technical elements. Underscored in comparison with T/M.
Duhamel/Radford: good effort knowing his injury. Changing the 3 Lz with the 3 T was a good choice, Eric was having problem with the Lz also in practice.
James/Cipres: great recovery after that unlucky Twist! One of my favourite teams this year
Della Monica/Guarise: hottest looking guy with the worst dress (I liked her dress, though) :hopelessness:
Stolbova/Klimov: painfully sad to watch them struggle so much :sad21: Hopefully they can regroup for the FS. Interestingly, I have never seen Ksenia so happy after a program

I have to disagree on Yu & Zhang. While I respect his longevity and continued attempt to reach his skating goals (whatever those are) with a laundry list of partners, IMO he has zero charisma and presentation out there. A great technical skater, especialy in big air moves, some of his other elements like spins and death spirals are less than stellar. However he will never be a World or Olympic Champion since he simply doesnt have the artistry, presence, or charisma for it, and IMO never will.

Not a huge fan of Tarasova & Morozov and really wish they would get better programs, but I would have them over Yu & Zhang easily, just as the judges did.

Stolmov · Mar 30, 2017

Ksenia and Fyodor were very dissapointing to watch. It is just very sad that a pair with good style crumble that way. T/M could get silver or bronze medal at their best at Olympics, they are not a gold medal potential unless others make dramatic mistakes. The status of Russian pairs after Volosozhar and Trankov looks blah unless one of juniors get better. It is similar to Russian men status after Yagudin and Plushenko. I dont know what is wrong with Ksenia and Fyodor, they are not the same team who won gold and silver at the Olympics. They concentrate all the effort to have better twist. Sometimes you just have one bad move, they need to accept that and return to their better status we saw at Olympics and GPF. I am afraid if they stuck in that dark area they wont be able to move on to be a good pair again. I truly hope they redeem themselves at free because they are a very unique team.

medvedevasocks · Mar 30, 2017

Stolmov said:
Ksenia and Fyodor were very dissapointing to watch. It is just very sad that a pair with good style crumble that way. T/M could get silver or bronze medal at their best at Olympics, they are not a gold medal potential unless others make dramatic mistakes. The status of Russian pairs after Volosozhar and Trankov looks blah unless one of juniors get better. It is similar to Russian men status after Yagudin and Plushenko. I dont know what is wrong with Ksenia and Fyodor, they are not the same team who won gold and silver at the Olympics. They concentrate all the effort to have better twist. Sometimes you just have one bad move, they need to accept that and return to their better status we saw at Olympics and GPF. I am afraid if they stuck in that dark area they wont be able to move on to be a good pair again. I truly hope they redeem themselves at free because they are a very unique team.

You are right. Stolbova & Klimov have the talent to be World and Olympic Champions potentially but clearly not the mental strength. It will probably never happen for them.

Tarasova & Morovoz I agree right now need others mistakes to win the major events, although they are still young and have lots of time to improve. I think post 2018 they could easily be in the gold fight, although not dominant as Sui & Han and Savchenko & Massot are both likely to go for 2022 too.

Volsozhar & Trankov have been retired since the moment their Sochi LP finished really. Yeah technically they competed a bit last year in zombie form as a huge shadow of theirselves, already mentally retired still. We arent waiting for the post V&T era in Russian pairs, it has been on hand for 3 years already

tulosai · Mar 30, 2017

Skater Boy said:
I don't understand how anyone can say this is a well skated event. Sure if you are a German or Chinese fan but not on a whole. Not only are the top Russians not competing, injured or coming back, but oh my D and R haters it is obvious D and R are injured. They switched out jumps and they couldn't even do spins - how cna you compare. I do think SK K were awesome.

Did you watch the event? Any skating fan (who isn't obsessed with nationality) would know this was probably overall the best skated pairs SP of all time. The top 23 pairs- 23 PAIRS!!! all scored over 51 and would have qualified to the FS in pretty much any other year at all. Of those top 23, some didn't skate absolutely perfectly, it's true, but there are literally only 3 I wouldn't watch again- Denney/Frazier, Stolbova/Klimov, and Duhamel/Radford. The first 2 had disruptive mistakes; D/R I just am not a fan of this program, but if I was I'd even watch them again sure. We have A North Korean, Czech, and Australian team in the top 16, all with scores over 62! We have two teams who skated beautifully with scores over 60 who didn't even make the FS. MANY of the teams literally skated the best they ever have in their lives.

Sure, if you're only watching for D/R or the Russians or whatever and ignoring all other teams maybe you're disappointed but for a lover of pairs skating???? This was an AWESOME way to spend an evening, I can't even tell you.

medvedevasocks · Mar 30, 2017

tulosai said:
Did you watch the event? Any skating fan (who isn't obsessed with nationality) would know this was probably overall the best skated pairs SP of all time. The top 23 pairs- 23 PAIRS!!! all scored over 51 and would have qualified to the FS in pretty much any other year at all. Of those top 23, some didn't skate absolutely perfectly, it's true, but there are literally only 3 I wouldn't watch again- Denney/Frazier, Stolbova/Klimov, and Duhamel/Radford. The first 2 had disruptive mistakes; D/R I just am not a fan of this program, but if I was I'd even watch them again sure. We have A North Korean, Czech, and Australian team in the top 16, all with scores over 62! We have two teams who skated beautifully with scores over 60 who didn't even make the FS. MANY of the teams literally skated the best they ever have in their lives.

Sure, if you're only watching for D/R or the Russians or whatever and ignoring all other teams maybe you're disappointed but for a lover of pairs skating???? This was an AWESOME way to spend an evening, I can't even tell you.

ITA. Anyone who says this was anything other than a spectacular event is a massive troll and not a true fan of the sport. The only real dissapointment was Stolbova & Klimov and I guess Denney & Frazier, although I find D&F incredibly dull to begin with. Even S&K was made alright by their attitudes in the K&C though which I was so impressed by.

4everchan · Mar 30, 2017

Hannah555 said:
A little bit off topic: TAT really loves the second canadian pair I|M. When they skated she was so nervous about Lubov's jump. She was saying: Luba, please jump! It felt like she even crossed her fingers. and when she jumped she was soooo happy )))
She also loves canadian girls. And in total she has huge respect to canadian figure skating school. Yesterday she spoke a lot about how special and qualified canadian figure skaters are )))

yup... I'M skate the traditional pair style

so of course she likes them

and having respect for Canadian skating is one thing but if she truly did, she would have respect for Gauthier's teams

but it's okay... there's rivalry there.

4everchan · Mar 30, 2017

medvedevasocks said:
With Duhamel & Radford almost certainly retiring after the Games Luba & Dylan are setting up nicely to be Canadian #1 very soon. Especialy with Sequin & Bilodeau so injury prone.

technically, dylan had said he was retiring after 2018... but who knows... that was when he was with Kirsten... maybe he will want to stick around

medvedevasocks · Mar 30, 2017

4everchan said:
technically, dylan had said he was retiring after 2018... but who knows... that was when he was with Kirsten... maybe he will want to stick around

That is very true, but as you said that was when he was with Kirsten, and it is pretty much certain that partnership would have maxed out all it could do together by 2018 at the latest. Heck they arguably did by 2014, hence perhaps why they split.

I think it is a different situation with a new partnership that is still growing, and I honestly see them going for 2022. Plus as I said with the Games likely being Duhamel & Radford's final event, or 2018 worlds perhaps at the latest, Canadian #1 will be open to them. They seem to be clearly passing Sequin & Bilodeau by at the moment, and Dylan is clearly leaps ahead of his ex partner and her new partner at the moment.

4everchan · Mar 30, 2017

tulosai said:
Did you watch the event? Any skating fan (who isn't obsessed with nationality) would know this was probably overall the best skated pairs SP of all time. The top 23 pairs- 23 PAIRS!!! all scored over 51 and would have qualified to the FS in pretty much any other year at all. Of those top 23, some didn't skate absolutely perfectly, it's true, but there are literally only 3 I wouldn't watch again- Denney/Frazier, Stolbova/Klimov, and Duhamel/Radford. The first 2 had disruptive mistakes; D/R I just am not a fan of this program, but if I was I'd even watch them again sure. We have A North Korean, Czech, and Australian team in the top 16, all with scores over 62! We have two teams who skated beautifully with scores over 60 who didn't even make the FS. MANY of the teams literally skated the best they ever have in their lives.

Sure, if you're only watching for D/R or the Russians or whatever and ignoring all other teams maybe you're disappointed but for a lover of pairs skating???? This was an AWESOME way to spend an evening, I can't even tell you.

i think the issue in your post wasn't that the event was greatly skated... I agree with you. Some of the very top teams made a couple mistakes but overall, the event was stellar.

However, you said something else that was slightly out of line, especially considering your persona as someone who is a great supporter of all skaters in general. You said you were looking forward to D/R's retirement and that's why Skaterboy called you out on it. I agree with him. Whoever it is, that's just not appropriate and I guess it's not something we are used to read from you. It's like your filter broke for that one time. No grudges though.

tulosai · Mar 30, 2017

4everchan said:
i think the issue in your post wasn't that the event was greatly skated... I agree with you. Some of the very top teams made a couple mistakes but overall, the event was stellar.

However, you said something else that was slightly out of line, especially considering your persona as someone who is a great supporter of all skaters in general. You said you were looking forward to D/R's retirement and that's why Skaterboy called you out on it. I agree with him. Whoever it is, that's just not appropriate and I guess it's not something we are used to read from you. It's like your filter broke for that one time. No grudges though.

The post he was replying to was a long one by 3T3T. Not mine. To my knowledge he didn't respond to mine but I might have missed it. The post he responded to was a long one about the event as a whole gushing about many skaters and what a great event it was, and his response was basically I don't know how anyone can think this was a great event due to one Russian pair and one Canadian pair. Regardless of what I said about D/R that didn't jibe for me.

Furthermore, I did say what I said, but I've never wished D/R ill; I've never said they didn't deserve the medals they have; I've actually often defended them. I have also at times critiqued certain aspects of their skating, but I think I've always been fair. I'd be 100% confident that someone reviewing my entire post history would not find anything to the contrary. I've stayed out of debates on interviews they've given and things they say to the press and never commented on them personally. And all those things are still true- I don't wish them ill, and certainly if they chose to continue to skate until 2022 or 2026 I'll continue to wish them well and likely I'll continue to periodically defend them and think they deserve any additional medals they acquire. I certainly don't wish them into retirement for any reason against their will. To the best of my knowledge though I'm allowed to be sick of watching certain pairs or skaters skate and feel how I choose about their retirement.

4everchan · Mar 30, 2017

tulosai said:
The post he was replying to was a long one by 3T3T. Not mine. To my knowledge he didn't respond to mine but I might have missed it. The post he responded to was a long one about the event as a whole gushing about many skaters and what a great event it was, and his response was basically I don't know how anyone can think this was a great event due to one Russian pair and one Canadian pair. Regardless of what I said about D/R that didn't jibe for me.

Furthermore, I did say what I said, but I've never wished D/R ill; I've never said they didn't deserve the medals they have; I've actually often defended them. I have also at times critiqued certain aspects of their skating, but I think I've always been fair. I'd be 100% confident that someone reviewing my entire post history would not find anything to the contrary. I've stayed out of debates on interviews they've given and things they say to the press and never commented on them personally. And all those things are still true- I don't wish them ill, and certainly if they chose to continue to skate until 2022 or 2026 I'll continue to wish them well and likely I'll continue to periodically defend them and think they deserve any additional medals they acquire. I certainly don't wish them into retirement for any reason against their will. To the best of my knowledge though I'm allowed to be sick of watching certain pairs or skaters skate and feel how I choose about their retirement.

that's exactly why I noticed your post... I may recall incorrectly which post in particular skaterboy was referring to, but in general, a few of us, noticed the negative posts about D/R, including yours... and exactly, it's because i have always respected your fair posts that this particular one struck me. Fair enough, you can be tired of seeing them. That's fine. I just wish that the moment for saying wasn't when one can feel Eric's pain trying to lift his leg on a spin .... but as I said, no grudges....

What shocked me in this thread, is the ill-wishing... when a team is already struggling with injuries.... people were very laudatory about Tarasova's strength despite the stitches but were happy to pounce on Meagan and Eric... it is sort of painful to read in a community like GS

tulosai · Mar 30, 2017

4everchan said:
that's exactly why I noticed your post... I may recall incorrectly which post in particular skaterboy was referring to, but in general, a few of us, noticed the negative posts about D/R, including yours... and exactly, it's because i have always respected your fair posts that this particular one struck me. Fair enough, you can be tired of seeing them. That's fine. I just wish that the moment for saying wasn't when one can feel Eric's pain trying to lift his leg on a spin .... but as I said, no grudges....

What shocked me in this thread, is the ill-wishing... when a team is already struggling with injuries.... people were very laudatory about Tarasova's strength despite the stitches but were happy to pounce on Meagan and Eric... it is sort of painful to read in a community like GS

I certainly and honestly didn't want to offend anyone or cause pain for their fans. I do respect any athlete who puts his or herself out there with an injury, including Eric, and I actually think the skate they put out there was quite good. Like I already said, I genuinely don't wish them ill (and I did actually write in another post that pretty much my #1 wish is that Canada will have 3 spots again next year, so if anything I SUPER wish all three Canadian teams well tonight). I will try to be more considerate on threads like this in the future. I do see how real fans of them might feel things in the heat of the moment in a way I wouldn't. I will also say I agree in general that the hate they get here can be extreme, and I've genuinely tried not to partake in it in the past because what I will say about them (whether I'm sick of watching them or not

) is that they are obviously VERY hard workers, do enjoy skating, and have been genuinely committed to advancing the sport, which I also go truly respect.

In any case, best of luck to them and all the teams tonight, and thanks for taking time to calmly share your own opinion/perspective with me.

medvedevasocks · Mar 30, 2017

4everchan said:
i think the issue in your post wasn't that the event was greatly skated... I agree with you. Some of the very top teams made a couple mistakes but overall, the event was stellar.

However, you said something else that was slightly out of line, especially considering your persona as someone who is a great supporter of all skaters in general. You said you were looking forward to D/R's retirement and that's why Skaterboy called you out on it. I agree with him. Whoever it is, that's just not appropriate and I guess it's not something we are used to read from you. It's like your filter broke for that one time. No grudges though.

Duhamel & Radford have said in numerous interviews they plan to retire after next season, or even after the Olympics. If they go to the post Olympic worlds it would probably be to help Canada get 3 spots for next year. It isnt hating to say they are done at that point, they have said so themselves for awhile now.

Could they change their mind? Of course possible. However given their ages, the wear and tear of like 6 seasons doing the hardest content which is taxing on the body, and that they have already lost their status as top pair in the world before the Games, I think it is very unlikely. I think they are going to make a big push to try and get an individual Olympic medal, the one thing missing from their glistening careers. Even a bronze I think they would be thrilled at having never had an individual Olympic medal, and clearly at this point not being the favorites for the gold; although obviously they would like better, any medal would be a huge success in their minds if they make it. Even if they miss out on an individual Olympic medal, 2022 is probably too far away all things considered. I would be surprised if they recanted on their proposed desire to end after next season, either post Olympics or post worlds.

4everchan · Mar 30, 2017

medvedevasocks said:
Duhamel & Radford have said in numerous interviews they plan to retire after next season, or even after the Olympics. If they go to the post Olympic worlds it would probably be to help Canada get 3 spots for next year. It isnt hating to say they are done at that point, they have said so themselves for awhile now.

Could they change their mind? Of course possible. However given their ages, the wear and tear of like 6 seasons doing the hardest content which is taxing on the body, and that they have already lost their status as top pair in the world before the Games, I think it is very unlikely. I think they are going to make a big push to try and get an individual Olympic medal, the one thing missing from their glistening careers. Even a bronze I think they would be thrilled at having never had an individual Olympic medal, and clearly at this point not being the favorites for the gold; although obviously they would like better, any medal would be a huge success in their minds if they make it. Even if they miss out on an individual Olympic medal, 2022 is probably too far away all things considered. I would be surprised if they recanted on their proposed desire to end after next season, either post Olympics or post worlds.

no no... you don't understand how things happened

it's not about saying they will retire... of course they will...

it was about how some users for a quite a while now, and yesterday have been saying things like "they are a a disgrace for pairs" "pair skating is dead" or "i cannot wait for them to retire" ... there has been a lot of hate and that is what i was talking about.. not the actual fact that they are both over 30 and are planning to retire after 2018.

medvedevasocks · Mar 30, 2017

4everchan said:
no no... you don't understand how things happened it's not about saying they will retire... of course they will...

it was about how some users for a quite a while now, and yesterday have been saying things like "they are a a disgrace for pairs" "pair skating is dead" or "i cannot wait for them to retire" ... there has been a lot of hate and that is what i was talking about.. not the actual fact that they are both over 30 and are planning to retire after 2018.

Ohh whoops, my bad. Sorry I was out of the loop of the previous part of the conversation obviously. All I was saying is I do agree it is 90% likely they will retire after next season, not that I wished it, or thought they have killed pairs skating, etc...

I will admit they arent my favorite team, I prefer more artistic teams with nicer lines, but I still respect especialy Meghan for achieving what she did, when she clearly isnt the most talented skater. She has impressive moxie. Also how they have helped push the technical envelope of pairs, more teams are trying more difficult tricks now, largely because of them. I dont want pairs to be all about tricks, but I dont think it is, maybe they are to some extent, but they have to work with what they had and their own strengths.

2017 Worlds Pairs SP

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