2017 Worlds Men's SP

Eclair said:

wooooooww, great to look at! must have been a ton of work to do that table!

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I just found this one)). But Somebody did a great work.
I think there are the same tables for Pairs SP and FS, and for ladies SP... I saw them... but could not find again...

magicalwords said:

I think Boyang deserved higher scores. There was only one judge giving +3 to his combo. 4 judges pressed 0 for his 4T....

PCS is rather subjective but I think he can definitely get extra points on performance and interpretation.

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Absolutely agree. It's not fair that he will always have to work 10% harder than others at his level. But he is my superhero for that.

jenaj said:

There weren't any US judges on the panel. Who do you think is biased in favor of the US?

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The US has more prestige than China and PCS are 5-10% prestige.

what did Dennis ten do wrong (other than strangely look like he resented being there lol)?

For all those sad about Kolyada, I think as soon as Javier retires his PCS will rise. Europe's Men look weak if you look at that ranking. Yes, Europe has the current and probably new World Champion but after Javier (and I guess he will not continue long after the Olympics...) there seems to be a draught coming. And if Kolyada becomes European Champ you can bet he will become more popular with the judges.

atsumiri said:

Analysis of Protocol from Men's SP - https://pp.userapi.com/c636627/v636627993/63b8c/F4haMLKZ8Nc.jpg
WOOW
German judge is strict

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Except for the fact that he really lowballed Mika, I love that German judge. Less unnecessary Inflation, he managed to give Patrick higher PCS than Javi, he gave Nathan the low GOE for his lacking quality! (Lol, he even put Jason above Nathan!)
Ah, this rare feeling of national pride. Maybe I should send flowers

MaiKatze said:

For all those sad about Kolyada, I think as soon as Javier retires his PCS will rise. Europe's Men look weak if you look at that ranking. Yes, Europe has the current and probably new World Champion but after Javier (and I guess he will not continue long after the Olympics...) there seems to be a draught coming. And if Kolyada becomes European Champ you can bet he will become more popular with the judges.

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What draught? There will be Deniss, Dmitri Aliev, Daniel Samohin, Alexander Samarin, hopefully Adian Pitkeev will be back, etc. Mikhail is not "the chosen one" and a lot can change by 2018-19.

Actually Shoma Uno is the one who did great job yesterday. Regardless of dozens Yuzuru's his countryman's fans, that pooh-flower rain and the fact he performed right after it. But he stepped on ice and showed clean great performance. Just keep calm and do it again with that amazing LP and medal guaranteed!

jaylee said:

Patrick Chan's SP was beautiful. Hoping he has a clean FS. I think his FS is marvelous, but while his SP choreography is fine, I hope he gets something more exciting for the Olympics.

Jason Brown also had a terrific performance. Really lovely, but same as Patrick, hope he gets something really amazing for the Olympics.

Chen seemed nervous and a little tight. Shame about the 3A. Overall I would say this performance lacked the spark he had at Nationals and at 4CCs. I still believe he can quad his way onto the podium.

Boyang gave a terrific performance and it was great to see him connecting with the audience.

Shoma Uno's performance was nice and clean but it doesn't leave a lasting impact on me. It's surprising to look back and see that he's in second.

Denis Ten: Solid effort, weird/funky music edit and it got monotonous after a while. I think Daisuke Takahashi could've made this work better, but he gave it a good shot.

Overall, excited to see the men duke it out in the FS. There are so many different scenarios. Hanyu could come back in the long and dethrone everyone. Javier could win a third straight worlds (which is crazy given the amount of competition). Good luck to them.

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Putting 4S+3T has to do with Yuzuru's injury on left foot，which limits his use of Toeloops. I think

level 3 last season for Yuzu while he broke WR，just to leave him some extra room. I wonder what would happen if Javi has to do Yuzu's program

chairmanmao said:

That was fast. Since when did you become such an ardent Hanyu supporter? I was just making a passing comment on some poster's laughable attempt at scandal and vaunting of Hanyu's supposed StSq prowess. I maybe bias but I can't seem to remember ever been impressed by any of Hanyu's step sequences. Something along the line of Ten's glorious 2015 4CC StSq or Chan at TEB in 2013.

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Yes if you are not impressed by Yuzu，that's your opinion. What's fast is you claim Yuzu would “struggle” to level 3 if skating Javi's stsq. Not to mention how useless and absurd it is to judge their skills by how well they can do each other's stsq rather than their own（and the difficulty in the stsq itself），you seem to imply that Javi's stsq is way more difficult than Yuzu's lol～ Yet you are not so impressed by Javi's did you？You pull out of how good Ten's and Chan's are to support that Javi's better than Yuzu. Impressive logic.
Thank you for mentioning Yuzu's stsq has improved over last season，which was a great one. By that I believe he is not shy at stsq compared to anyone.

Bcash said:

Hanyu's SP is definitely in a performance style he can excel in, I don't see why some people are arguing the opposite. And he did perform the hell out of it in this competition, confident and secure, everything except for the 4S combo was the sharpest he has done all season.

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And talking about this program and how it engages the audience！I was there at GPF，and literally people's screams follow him during the sp. If he skated to a conner of the rink the sections next to it screamed. If he looked at a direction, the sections screamed. If he pointed to them, the sections screamed... It was like he was being a conductor (while competing at the same time) and the audience sang following his orders. Unpaired. You remember how he added a new posture while close to the audience in this sp? I think I heard those people screamed through the screen. And there was this commentator saying it was good job for them to turn up the music or Yuzu wouldn't have been able to even hear the music.

Okay, it was difficult to watch some of top guys, or more like – difficult to find videos...but here we go (first part is posted probably on page 141 if anyone's interested)

Boyang – I think that this season is kind of 'transition season' for him, where he has to cope a bit with his body and still develop in both technical and presentation areas, but after the rocky start, he really found his feet on the ground, especially in terms of presentation. He really grown for me from a wonder kid with all this jumping ability to promising, engaging performer, skater with so much to offer, a skater who sure will find (or already found) his 'target' audience. I'd say that seeing him between Patrick or Yuzuru, or Shoma, he does not have the same 'complexity' or 'multitasking' in seamless merge of quality, skill and presentation, he may not have as deep edges or ice coverage, but yesterday's performance really highlighted his best qualities for me, instead of pointing out his lacks or things he does not yet have. He commanded music, the entertaining, easy feel of it adding so much personality and charisma in process, spicing whole performance with that spark of fun, like it should be. I felt a real joy and abandon oozing from him, as the tech side progressed nicely, he seemed to get more relaxed and 'courageous' in performing which was great to see. I do see a lot of potential in his development, a promise of creating that personal 'Boyang' signature over his skating, a style with much more than just big jumps. And personally I feel like he has that rare ability to feel out the crowd, to sense where to press harder, to express and tune amp up just perfectly in the program. He just has to be patient and give himself time to put it in a better use.

Nathan – personally, I'm glad that this big PR bubble around him, pumped for last few weeks finally broke, it is only for his best. Of course, it is always hard to see a fall, that interuption within performance from such poised, skilled skater with a soul of competitor, but somehow I felt like a big stone of pressure was taken from his back. I get his disappointment, but it should only fuel him up towards not only FS, but all seasons to follow. Performance and presentation-wise, it was not his prime for me, he seemed a bit too stiff and tensed and loosened up after the fall, paradoxically, giving much more 'fire' in that performance. I'm not convinced by this whole 'leaping balletic' PR stuff, but I do see the allure and right channelling his balletic skills in his skating – there is quite a harmony between his stance and way of presenting himself and his mad technical skills regarding jumps. Saying that, an entire other story is the way he presents programs and works in them and I believe that he'll find his way around this too, sooner than later. I totally get the appeal he creates, because for me he embodies fierceness and freshness of courage and being adventurous and yes, now his jumps, explosiveness of them is a focus point, but I trust him and his team to enrich it with much more. He fills his performance and programs with what he has, the overall impression for me is not as impactful as regarding others, but there will be that seeking balance and development process for him, similar to Boyang I feel. Fantastic thing for me about Nathan is that he truly lives up and lits up while competing, his passion and devotion for skating so strong after what he's been through quite recently. Without a doubt he'll chase perfection, but I do wish he would chase an optimum state for himself, a state where he would getting better and better just to prove himself, not necessarily the others, as there will be always someone in opposition.

To continue with US Men, as there will be a common point of summary about them below, Jason blew my mind with sheer force and impact of his presentation and interpretation. I get that a lot of people seem to be eager about an idea of quad qualification contest before actual competition/enjoy belittling and shaming skaters without quads (Jason in particular), like it is justified. But it is never justified to put a shame on skater just because he's not doing technical evoltions that others do. Every skater should do best they can, considering skills, abilities, health state – there is quite a difference between level of technical difficulty and level of quality of a performance as a whole for me, and I can appreciate skaters excelling in both these areas, making their performances special and unique. And if they can add a charisma, personality, incorporate musicality within the whole thing, it's only an advantage. Jason is an exquisite example of a competitor with confidence and sureness on his best assets and how to use them in best way possible, to get results and recognition. He capitalizes on superb quality of his movement, great musicality and interpretation/projection skills towards programs and music, an unique ability to 'click' with the crowd and make an impact on it by his whole skating package presented. His allure is much more complex and deeper than jumps as he translates skating as a multi-dimentional experience, like he did yesterday. Crispness, finishing of movement, attenion to detail, vivid but not overcooked) expression, crazy spins, fantastic glide, speed and power through who;e performance. I mean – when there's so much to cherish and appreciate, it takes a lot of personally-projected prejudicions towards Men's skating in general to deny Jason level he represents and scores he gets, if crystal clean. And above all said – he's got a spark, positivity and open attitude with no regrets, seen in every performance, successful or not, so rare to see. Wish people would understand that a competitive force can be actually taken from other things than jumps alone and no skater, even the best one, should not be reduced nor limited only by their jumping abilities.

And as andromache already pointed – some people need to make up their minds and ditch double standards or personal hypocricy (as applicable) as there is seething over Nathan's PCS boosted by his tech and sneering over quadless Jason getting his scores is PCS comparing to skaters with quads at the same time. It is indeed hard to be that divisive regarding Men's skating it seems, as the logic is getting away in the process...My take on that is quite simple (and naive for a lot) – both skaters are extremely different and capitalizes on their strenghts being placed in totally opposite areas, but both being same, fierce and valuable competitors at the same time.There is no point of denying value for neither of them as they performances/presentation abilities should be viewed separately and in context with actual skate produced. Nathan getting PCS he does is not blocking judges for rewarding Jason for qualities and skills he represents, same goes in opposite way. The competition is really not about skaters being compared between each other, who deserves what in light of others – if it would be that way, scoring had to be done after last skater would leave the ice and it would be extremely politicized or 'reputation'-inflicted. For me, competition is about producing individual performances and then assessing them on their own – after all, it is who was the best at that day, not who is the best on paper/who deserves what in paper.

As for Yuzuru – despite glitches and not crystal clean performance, he still managed to get me crazy about this program. I adore 'Rockstar Yuzuru' the most and I feel like this is only one of his versatile sides, abilities to embody different stuff in his own, unique way. Still dazzled by his speed, attack and glide towards every element, musicality so infectious and prominent in every movement, especially spins, great contact with audience, very expressive, yet not in over-the-top way. And I live for his 3As – in whole SP my favourite was his, period, there is just something in the way he attacks that jump, with very little set-up and the landing is so explosive, so attention-demanding...And on a general note, seeing him this season maybe not so foot-perfect like he got us used to, I think that his search for that optimal state, balance in his skating – even with some disappointments – is one of the most valuable things about Yuzuru. He wants to go beyond boundaries, pushing and expanding things and I think that at this point he's his most challengeing competitor and critic which could be best and worst at the same time. I just want to see him satisfied and engaged with all he does, in this crazy reality consisting of constant raising the bar and the pressure.

Now, two performances which moved me deeply – Shoma and Patrick. Both of them created a complex unity, controlled and with abandon at the same time, really compelling and captivating. And on paper, those are even not my favourite programs, which says a lot about power created by those performances...While the force that hit me was equal, I noticed a slight difference in structure of both programs and feel they gave me. Shoma really commanded the music by his movement, molding it like an instrument for his own use, expressing all highs and lows in the process and creating an aura around him; at the same time, Patrick again used his body as an instrument, his own vehicle to transport emotions and carry interpretation – the way he blended seamlessly into the music and created a liquid art of motion left me speechless. While Shoma gave me a feel of vividness, dramatic forte and edge, Patrick brought me peace and harmony, coloured with melancholy.

I felt like Shoma really put his heart on the sleeve for this skate an gave his all, especially from expression/interpretation side as he not only paced himself,focused and poised, but at the same time expressed that longing and sadness behind music. Yes, tech side was explosive, exciting and spectacular to see, but what caught within me the most was that perfect balance achieved between music, movement and emotion. The pacing, timing were so amazing, he really molded that music for his own use and rules. And that atmosphere around him – youthful excitement mixed with shyness, enormous talent and determintion, adding to that this 'transformation' ability when he steps on ice, going deep into character of the program and the music. Also, I noticed for the first time in this SP nice,little details between elements, especially hands work to accentuate violin. He could appear as not the tallest/most impactful skater by his appearance, but he definitely proved how explosive and moving is his skating.

Patrick really carried me somewhere else by his performance. I like that this season he went for something more 'current', bolder,proving himself not only being an exqusite lyricist, but also amazing 'modernist' in terms of style and interpretation. Everything just flew seamlessly, from jump to spin, to step...And somewhere in between I really lost track of elements and requirements he has to do, because skating became a bit of art in motion. The flow of that energy, relaxed, not rushed feel was so strong – Patrick really embodied a sense of melancholy and nostalgy hidden in music, adding his personality and that gentle smile and touch over whole performance to give it just enough spark. There is really no one else with skill Patrick has, skill to transform ordinary/difficult or minimal stuff into something truly special. It takes a hand of someone gifted to create a moment to remember like Patrick did, full of softness and power at the same time, yet so harmonious for every human sense.

And finally Javier...Once again he proved his worth as a valuable, strong and determined competitor, regardless of public voices. I have to say that I have a bit mixed feelings about that skate – on one side, it was a masteful display of his capability, skill and cool head, there was polish and quality over jumps in particular, and the program is very well-matched. It was continous, it was strong and resonated loudly. But at the same time the performance as a whole left me a bit indiferrent and cold, especially comparing it to other ones, but this is only my personal feel. And call me silly, but I don't think that all black costume is better – somehow, I feel like with that Matador costume with red colour the program and performance were much more expressive, lively and in character. I just can't shake a feel of too much coolness and 'sort of mechanical', calculated expression, lack of freedom and abandon I sensed watching Javier. Don't get me wrong – I do appreaciate a lot the way he focused and executed the program in a great way, with so much polish. But watching other guys I really wish he would be more 'out' there for the performance, that's just my impression.

NoNameFace said:

Whole post.

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Amazing and articulate as always, NNF! Thank you.

To bounce your point here:

Wish people would understand that a competitive force can be actually taken from other things than jumps alone and no skater, even the best one, should not be reduced nor limited only by their jumping abilities.

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To go to a different sport, there's a BIG reason why there are Cinderella and bracket busters in the NCAA tournament. What matters there isn't the physical size of the team or that they're in a power conference, but how they played that day.

Jason reminds me of a team like Wichita State, which is technically in a mid-major conference but they don't play like it. They are willing to schedule themselves against the tougher basketball teams from power conferences like Kansas (right in their back yard!) and Michigan State. They even made the Final Four one year. They don't get intimidated by playing teams like Kentucky or Louisville. And even if they lose -- like they did to Kentucky earlier this month -- they didn't do it without some tough, fast and beautiful playing, challenging the team to rise to the occasion. Wichita State's coach Gregg Marshall expects the best out of his players -- he doesn't kowtow to the idea that because they have technical disadvantages (namely size and power, in the case of the UK team they played against earlier) that they couldn't win a game against a top ranked college team.

So going back to skating. Yeah, Jason's best was "only" 8th because everyone else skated well yesterday. But I think little credit is given to what he he did. He could have succumbed to the pressure of skating after all those clean quad skates or been spooked by the high scores everyone was getting. But he didn't.

Yes, on paper, Jason doesn't have a chance to move up to the podium or even top six. But his solid SP program yesterday at least puts him in striking distance.

xeyra said:

I have a question about practices before the FS. Do the runthroughs always happen in the order of the FS in every practice, or do they usually rotate?

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I believe it's always in the skating order of the FS.

begin said:

IIRC the referees handle time violations and they're extremely strict. I've seen deduction for skaters who accidentally stop their blades a second after the music...and Yuzu was a good 2+ secs over his time limit .

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So they start counting exactly when? The first moment he steps on the ice?

reneerose said:

So they start counting exactly when? The first moment he steps on the ice?

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The clock starts right after the skater's name is called (like so https://twitter.com/SkatingProtocol/status/847645360872841216)

MaiKatze said:

For all those sad about Kolyada, I think as soon as Javier retires his PCS will rise.

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LOL, yeah, he might place one place higher after Javier is no more competing... On the other one or more skaters might rise up in results, never mind where they are coming from? In my opinion Kolyada will start getting higher PCS only after he himself will get better programs and start to place high in competitions. That is the way it happens....

Just wondering Rohene Ward somewhere has said he doesn't like using music with lyrics, then how comes Jason is skating to something with lyrics?

begin said:

IIRC the referees handle time violations and they're extremely strict. I've seen deduction for skaters who accidentally stop their blades a second after the music...and Yuzu was a good 2+ secs over his time limit .

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2 seconds? Keep going. I timed it and he took 38-39seconds to get in place after his name was called. That's 8-9 over, not 2, and the referee was well within their rights to give the deduction since there were no extenuating circumstances. Hanyu is not above the rules.