ISU World Team Trophy 2017 | Page 10 | Golden Skate

ISU World Team Trophy 2017

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Ok, I know this has been discussed at length, but I'm still confused. What exactly happens to skaters/teams who opt not to participate? Are sanctions just a warning, or are they real? (i.e no shows/exhibitions)

they will not be permitted to participate in any other competitions, shows, and exhibitions from Monday noon (April 3, 2017) after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2017, during the ISU World Team Trophy, and until April 23, 2017.

I don´t think it is a severe sanction. They can do shows the rest of the off season. P/C are listed for Fantasy on ice.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Do you see why I fail to understand your "argument" about the system being rigged toward the Japanese team? If anything, the system is rigged toward the team with th most rounded team. If you can have two podiums out of six, you will always lose to a team that can have 4 (yes, even if these 4 don't have a gold). That's simple math. And math, in this case, is in favour of the USA, and has been for quite some time. Canada isn't far off, nor is Russia. Japan and China only come next.

In terms of fair play and a fair event structure, there's no reason that there needs to be six possible chances to podium (4 within the singles disciplines) when there are four disciplines total! For crying out loud, THAT is the simplest math that you can do for yourself. Japan was able to podium overall at 2013 WTT without any pairs team whatsoever! How is that a fair and reasonable result in this so-called "team" competition format? Japan can do whatever it wants, but I have every right and reason to say "Hey, that's foul." Why my calling a spade a spade seems to cause some people to get defensive about their precious WTT is beyond me. It's a fine fluffy event but it is not a fair team competition--the facts speak for themselves. If this event format is so fair, why does the Olympic team format not replicate it?

I have no problem with respectful disagreement based on facts and logic. But your arguments have been severely lacking in logic, so I think we're done here.
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Wow this thread turned...negative.

Derailing!

Anyone other than me actually going to the competition? I'm going to Day 1 and 2 to see Men SP and LP. Anyone interested in a GS meetup?

This thread is tame. Just wait for the sub-threads for each discipline ;)

I am envious that you are going to WTT. Have a great time and give a cheer to the skaters for me! :cheer:
 

sailormoon

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Country
Japan
2015 World Team Trophy
1 United States 110
2 Russia 109
3 Japan 103

In 2015, Cathy Reed / Chris Reed represented Japan in ice dance and Ami Koga / Francis Boudreau-Audet in pairs. Team Japan was severely handicapped by the lack of talents in the two disciplines and finished third two years ago. Cathy Reed retired afterwards and Chris Reed had to start from scratch with a new partner. This event is basically an exhibition or entertainment and it's not about winning or losing. Especially they have so much fun in the kiss and cry. The World Team Trophy started off as a friendship match between America and Japan and it was expanded to include other figure skating powers such as Russia and Canada around a decade ago.

So why does Japan only get this event? Is it because they have the sponsors to shell out $1M USD? Has another country attempted to bid for it?

The 2016 KOSÉ Team Challenge Cup was held April 22–24, 2016 at the Spokane Arena in Spokane, Washington. This is essentially the same event as the World Team Trophy, which will go back and forth between the US and Japan from now on.

http://www.teamchallengecup.com/
 
Last edited:

jersey1302

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Country
Canada
So why does Japan only get this event? Is it because they have the sponsors to shell out $1M USD? Has another country attempted to bid for it?
 

shyne

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Do you see why I fail to understand your "argument" about the system being rigged toward the Japanese team? If anything, the system is rigged toward the team with th most rounded team. If you can have two podiums out of six, you will always lose to a team that can have 4 (yes, even if these 4 don't have a gold). That's simple math. And math, in this case, is in favour of the USA, and has been for quite some time. Canada isn't far off, nor is Russia. Japan and China only come next

In terms of fair play and a fair event structure, there's no reason that there needs to be six possible chances to podium (4 within the singles disciplines) when there are four disciplines total! For crying out loud, THAT is the simplest math that you can do for yourself. Japan was able to podium overall at 2013 WTT without any pairs team whatsoever! How is that a fair and reasonable result in this so-called "team" competition format? Japan can do whatever it wants, but I have every right and reason to say "Hey, that's foul." Why my calling a spade a spade seems to cause some people to get defensive about their precious WTT is beyond me. It's a fine fluffy event but it is not a fair team competition--the facts speak for themselves. If this event format is so fair, why does the Olympic team format not replicate it?

I have no problem with respectful disagreement based on facts and logic. But your arguments have been severely lacking in logic, so I think we're done here.

I had a good time reading your posts :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

If WTT uses the Olympics Team event Rule or any other rule that weigh all four disciplines evenly, we all know what's going to happen, Japan will never finish on the podium with their pair and ice dance, not in the past, and very unlikely in the near future.
I wouldn't go as far as the system is being rigged towards the Japanese Team, but the system is definitely not rigged toward the team with the most rounded team (the most rounded team would do even better under the Olympics Team Rule when you weigh all disciplines evenly).
My take is that the current rule allows more uncertainity in the final results. It also gives Japan a chance to showcase their strength in Singles and compensate their weekness in ice dance/pairs.
With Olympics Team event rule, Japan will not even come near the podium. With the WTT rule, Japan mangaes to podium on every WTT event, even grabbed Gold one year when they had a decicent Pair with Takahashi/Tran.
btw, there really is no need to point out no Japanese ladies finished on the World podium in the last two years, or use the estimated outcome based on recent results to judge the fariness of the WTT rule. WTT was first held in 2009. The rules remained like that since than. (That's why I don't use the word "rigged", I will reserve this term until WTT change the rule to have 3 men/3ladies in the competition).

Finally, I hope we can all agree that the WTT rule favors team with depth in Singles + most rounded team. :laugh::laugh::laugh: GO TEAM USA!
 
Last edited:

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
How did Kaetlyn Osmond not forced to go? She must be top rated Canadian ladies and also top ten at worlds.

The selection criteria is very confusing.

My guess is she is ranked behind Gabby and therefore not the top Canadian and might even be behind Alaine.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I had a good time reading your posts :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

If WTT uses the Olympics Team event Rule or any other rule that weigh all four disciplines evenly, we all know what's going to happen, Japan will never finish on the podium with their pair and ice dance, not in the past, and very unlikely in the near future.
I wouldn't go as far as the system is being rigged towards the Japanese Team, but the system is definitely not rigged toward the team with the most rounded team (the most rounded team would do even better under the Olympics Team Rule when you weigh all disciplines evenly).
My take is that the current rule allows more uncertainity in the final results. It also gives Japan a chance to showcase their strength in Singles and compensate their weekness in ice dance/pairs.
With Olympics Team event rule, Japan will not even come near the podium. With the WTT rule, Japan mangaes to podium on every WTT event, even grabbed Gold one year when they had a decicent Pair with Takahashi/Tran.
btw, there really is no need to point out no Japanese ladies finished on the World podium in the last two years, or use the estimated outcome based on recent results to judge the fariness of the WTT rule. WTT was first held in 2009. The rules remained like that since than. (That's why I don't use the word "rigged", I will reserve this term until WTT change the rule to have 3 men/3ladies in the competition).

Finally, I hope we can all agree that the WTT rule favors team with depth in Singles + most rounded team. :laugh::laugh::laugh: GO TEAM USA!

Yes, WTT was a Japan oriented thing lol. And it might effect the legitimacy of skating to the non skating fanatic ie. different rules for different events with hugely different outcomes. i wonder if they allowed 1 competitor per event and did a cumulative score rather than ordinal what would happen. Japan might not do too bad if they killed it with say Hanyu or Shoma and say Mai or Marin or Satoko. then again Canada might be favoured with either lady Gabby or Kaetlyn; Patrick, Virtue and moir and Duhamel and Radford. The US really need to ensure they beat the Canadians men and women to have a chance. Russia would have issues probably with no meal threat man or dance but could compete with the US. Japan would need massive scores from their two singles skaters (they would not get the benefit of two men and two women especially a Shomo and Yuzuru team
 

nolangoh

Steps and Spirals enthusiast
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
wow that escalated quickly :popcorn: I was about to say something here but I'd rather wait for the sub-threads
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
.... The 2016 KOSÉ Team Challenge Cup was held April 22–24, 2016 at the Spokane Arena in Spokane, Washington. This is essentially the same event as the World Team Trophy, which will go back and forth between the US and Japan from now on.

http://www.teamchallengecup.com/

It is very much an oversimplification to suggest that Team Challenge Cup is "essentially the same event as" WTT.

A regrettable (IMO) oversimplification that will only perpetuate confusion over the many differences btwn the two competitions.

(It is true that they both are team competitions on the international level, and that the plan for each is to take place every other year.
And the title sponsor of 2016 TCC was a Japanese company.
The similarities btwn the two competitions end there.)


Any news about US hosting TCC next year?I really enjoyed the competition last year.

I posted a bit of TCC news at the time of 2017 US Nats:


Side comment:

My two cents are that it does not bother me that WTT (which was first held five years before Sochi) has different rules/format than the Olympic team event.

And that TCC has different rules/format from WTT and the Olympic team event.
(The structure of TCC happened to be complex to a fault [IMO], but I do not mind that it very intentionally was different from WTT and the Olympic team event.)​


ETA:

I love Sui/Han, but look forward to seeing Peng/Jin (captain Jin :cool:) again.

~~~~~
There is a provision for including one lady, one man, one pair, and one ice dance couple from non-participating countries in the exhibition. I don't know if they actually do that. ...

Anecdotally, FWIW:

Denis Ten performed in the 2013 WTT gala.

Javier Fernandez as well as Denis in the 2015 WTT gala.​

~~~~~
What exactly is a Team Captain's role in WTT? Is it just a title in name or do they have specific responsibilities?

The Captain represents the team including during the medal ceremony, according to the ISU announcement. I don't think that they have any other specific responsibilities.

I believe it is more like a title than any specific responsibility, other than "Head Cheerleader".

A third responsibility of the team captain is to speak on behalf of the team at press conferences.​
 
Last edited:

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
My guess is she is ranked behind Gabby and therefore not the top Canadian and might even be behind Alaine.

If you look it up, Katelyn Osmond is top Canadian woman in both World Standings and Season World rankings. Gaby is second Canadian woman (but quite close) in both.
 

SnowWhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Country
Canada
My guess is she is ranked behind Gabby and therefore not the top Canadian and might even be behind Alaine.

If you look it up, Katelyn Osmond is top Canadian woman in both World Standings and Season World rankings. Gaby is second Canadian woman (but quite close) in both.

Both Kaetlyn and Gabby were required to compete due to their WS and Worlds results. However all that means is Kaetlyn can't do shows for the stated period (most of April I think). She / her team made the decision not to go for whatever reason (someone said they thought she had a non-ice show commitment in Eastern Canada at that time). It isn't a big problem for her since the Canadian SOI doesn't start until after the stated period, on April 28th.
 
Top