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Thread: World Team Trophy - Day 3

  1. #1066
    Medalist beki's Avatar
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    I'm not a huge fan or a harsh critic of Medvedeva. Scores will always go up over time; for judges the present is always better than the past. (I disagree with this, but the trend is clear. If it weren't her, it would be someone else inflated.) On a personal level, I think she is a very delightful, effervescent young girl with good intelligence. Her mental strength and consistency is the best in history. It is dazzling, something otherworldly to be envied. Yet she isn't my ideal in figure skating. People will always criticize a dominant figure skater if they don't fit their personal preferences for what skating should be, because they have become the figurehead. (Also, fans complain because a tighter competition is more fun to watch. In tennis, the Federer/Nadal rivalry was more entertaining than the Pete Sampras era.)

    She doesn't have many flaws. I don't like the themes and mime in her programs, but I do like the choreography. She is able to move through the complex filigree of details smoothly and easily. There is nothing labored about it; she has a continuous flow. Her program is more complicated than Higuchi's and Mihara's and her spins are better. For me what is lacking is her jumps (but as the rules are currently written they are fine, even good/excellent). It is because she muscles them with her upper body. I appreciate the height and athleticism of Higuchi's jumps more than I appreciate hers, even though she is adding difficulty with tanos and Rippons. Yet she is making improvements. Her loop is very nice and seems higher than before. It's simply that in debating whether she is the best ever, I prefer the superior jumps of Yuna Kim. But Kim wasn't my ideal either; I preferred Mao's artistry and step sequences, and admired her bold triple axel.

    Basically, in ladies figure skating, my ideal hasn't yet appeared in reality. If in the future Evgenia puts out programs that are more to my personal taste, my enthusiasm level will rise very quickly, since I already appreciate many aspects of her skating. She works relentlessly, so she will continue to improve.

  2. #1067
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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    Difficult logic to follow. "The second liazon" is much more common sense. For me it is 10+ point difference between clean Medvedeva and clean Mihara. Mihara skates first and sets the base. Medvedeva just gets what she deserves relative to Mai. No need to single out Evgenya's score with "lols". Anyway, judges have made up their minds, thanks god. And no mater how big outcry here is nothing will change as long as she delivers or as long as competition does not come up with something radically different like 3As or quads. In the "7 triple only" paradigm no one can beat clean Medvedeva.
    no 'difficulty' in those two perspectives considered, the second of course is more easy to use (as it is a competition, after all, everything is a subject of comparison), but also more prone for potential critic I'd say. At least in my book - there is certain, individual performance and a score of it given we acknowledge and can assess by ourselves, make our opinion aside of this acknowledgement of the judges' score, simple and normal as in any other discipline judged. And the second liaison is comparing performances and their respective scores between themselves - we acknowledge, then we form opinions.

    The thing is, that there is usually only opinion, personal one visible, with no acknowledgement presented about actual result voiced outright. And so far, there is a freedom to express those opinions, more or less personally-inflicted, we're all different after all, with some having common aesthetics/tastes regarding particular areas. I see nothing wrong with pointing out scores of everyone, as they are probably the only factor 'measurable' to use for comparison mentioned, they are subjected to opinions like actual performances are; I find more confusing the constant 'battle' with those kind of critical opinions on Medvedeva's scores as she seems doing totally fine in terms of results which cannot be changed.

    You say that 'judges have made up their minds' - well, that's the only thing that matters about results, right? Anyway, I don't think that 'making up' minds of so many people there, so different people is that simple. Lack of appraisal does not mean lack of acknowledgement, but any critic or different opinion is always considered as hate. For me, this is quite a difficult logic to follow.

  3. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameFace View Post

    You say that 'judges have made up their minds' - well, that's the only thing that matters about results, right? Anyway, I don't think that 'making up' minds of so many people there, so different people is that simple. Lack of appraisal does not mean lack of acknowledgement, but any critic or different opinion is always considered as hate. For me, this is quite a difficult logic to follow.
    For me Yuna was the queen of her age. She had powerful 3Lz-3T, very good speed, excellent feel of the music. But Medvedeva is one step beyond in terms of difficulty. Her programs are packed with transitions, difficult entries. Then backloading, tanos-rippons, 7 triples, two 3-3s, Bielman...let's see how it goes here after this.

  4. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by beki View Post
    Which country won the team spirit award?
    Really, ...does it matter? I see this competition as a redemption for those who did not perform well at worlds. It gives some skaters the opportunity to redeem themselves (PCS+++), after a disappointing Worlds by obtaining a Season's Best score, that they may or may not ever see again. Plus, the rules are such that how can anyone else but Japan, at this stage, not win? Makes up for next year and perhaps not doing as well in the Olympic Team event.

    Go Us!
    Last edited by Osmond4gold; 04-24-2017 at 06:24 PM.

  5. #1070
    Medalist beki's Avatar
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    Just curious. And isn't there a cash prize? So that helps whoever wins it. I loved Team France's Eiffel Tower pyramid, and Russia's ballet skit and props.

  6. #1071
    On the Ice Raomina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beki View Post
    Just curious. And isn't there a cash prize? So that helps whoever wins it. I loved Team France's Eiffel Tower pyramid, and Russia's ballet skit and props.
    Well, since no one answered you definitively, it was Team Russia that won it, as per Boyang's livestream of the banquet. That's why they had the team performance during the gala.

  7. #1072
    Medalist beki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raomina View Post
    Well, since no one answered you definitively, it was Team Russia that won it, as per Boyang's livestream of the banquet. That's why they had the team performance during the gala.
    Well-deserved, and that team performance was brilliant.

  8. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raomina View Post
    Well, since no one answered you definitively, it was Team Russia that won it, as per Boyang's livestream of the banquet. That's why they had the team performance during the gala.
    But Boyang's cheering for team China needs a special award IMO.
    -Also, his reaction to not winning the team spirit award!
    https://kichessarjilian.tumblr.com/p...-award-goes-to
    His live streams are a gift to us all.

  9. #1074
    Rinkside
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    I just felt like dropping in to say, that WTT Day 3 was my first time watching a figure skating event live, and it was the best experience.
    I'm so glad I watched on this day.

  10. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameFace View Post
    no 'difficulty' in those two perspectives considered, the second of course is more easy to use (as it is a competition, after all, everything is a subject of comparison), but also more prone for potential critic I'd say. At least in my book - there is certain, individual performance and a score of it given we acknowledge and can assess by ourselves, make our opinion aside of this acknowledgement of the judges' score, simple and normal as in any other discipline judged. And the second liaison is comparing performances and their respective scores between themselves - we acknowledge, then we form opinions.

    The thing is, that there is usually only opinion, personal one visible, with no acknowledgement presented about actual result voiced outright. And so far, there is a freedom to express those opinions, more or less personally-inflicted, we're all different after all, with some having common aesthetics/tastes regarding particular areas. I see nothing wrong with pointing out scores of everyone, as they are probably the only factor 'measurable' to use for comparison mentioned, they are subjected to opinions like actual performances are; I find more confusing the constant 'battle' with those kind of critical opinions on Medvedeva's scores as she seems doing totally fine in terms of results which cannot be changed.

    You say that 'judges have made up their minds' - well, that's the only thing that matters about results, right? Anyway, I don't think that 'making up' minds of so many people there, so different people is that simple. Lack of appraisal does not mean lack of acknowledgement, but any critic or different opinion is always considered as hate. For me, this is quite a difficult logic to follow.
    This is just what I also exactly think. My languages skills are not good enough sometimes to express myself. Japanese ladies were overscored too, but I am so used to home country rewards, so I did not mind about it very much. It has always been so that (top) skaters get some extra points and maybe it never changes. The placements are just right this time. I think Evgenia's best FS was at Euros. I do not hate anybody and Evgenia is no doubt one of the best skaters all time. But she got +3 from every judge and every jump, while at worlds and Euros she got +1 or +2. I cannot see the difference. And low lever skaters, no matter how good highlight they have, they never get better than 0. The judgning should go to each element separately, but today it is going back to old times, best skaters got good marks and low lever skaters got low marks, now matter what they do. I mean by low level skaters = skaters who are not able to do many difficult elements. I agree her transitions are difficult and best and spins and steps are very high level.

    It just makes it little ladies bit boring when somebody is so overpowering. But either I is not her fault, other skaters just should skate better. What I like in pairs at the moment, one thing of many, there are tight competition between them. And in men, nobody can beat clean Yuzuru, but he is human and is not always clean. I hope clean performances, though.

    And I hate nobody. (For ex. I liked Evgenia's gala programme very much, it is one of the best ladies have had and suits well to young lady.)

  11. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT_Fin View Post
    This is just what I also exactly think. My languages skills are not good enough sometimes to express myself. Japanese ladies were overscored too, but I am so used to home country rewards, so I did not mind about it very much. It has always been so that (top) skaters get some extra points and maybe it never changes. The placements are just right this time. I think Evgenia's best FS was at Euros. I do not hate anybody and Evgenia is no doubt one of the best skaters all time. But she got +3 from every judge and every jump, while at worlds and Euros she got +1 or +2. I cannot see the difference. And low lever skaters, no matter how good highlight they have, they never get better than 0. The judgning should go to each element separately, but today it is going back to old times, best skaters got good marks and low lever skaters got low marks, now matter what they do. I mean by low level skaters = skaters who are not able to do many difficult elements. I agree her transitions are difficult and best and spins and steps are very high level.

    It just makes it little ladies bit boring when somebody is so overpowering. But either I is not her fault, other skaters just should skate better. What I like in pairs at the moment, one thing of many, there are tight competition between them. And in men, nobody can beat clean Yuzuru, but he is human and is not always clean. I hope clean performances, though.

    And I hate nobody. (For ex. I liked Evgenia's gala programme very much, it is one of the best ladies have had and suits well to young lady.)
    thank You a lot TT_Fin, for me Your language skills are just fine (I enjoyed very much Your reports from Worlds written in various threads, really appreciate the effort), mine are 'coming in good/bad waves' I'd say, I'm glad this one above was a good reference point for You

    my totally personal and general thought about the whole 'issue' blown up is that it is blown up too much and with focus points wrongly channelled (too much personal convictions towards particular skaters addressed on 'general' results/competitions/scores inflation/judging - hence all critic is taken as plain hate).

    Points/scores and judging fashion are one of very few 'measurable' factors to make our opinions and comparison from, equally regarding one skater in particular (e.g. how he/she was scored in comparison with other outings, regarding respective performances of same programs) and making 'field comparison' on particular competition (again, we can compare/opinion on single performance vs its score awarded, or we can compare the quality of performances in general and scores awarded). And I see nothing wrong with using that in our references, opinions made, especially on judging. The confusion enters for me where there is too much 'judging/scoring' talk blaming skater himself/herself or if there's unnecessary 'battle' created with critical opinions voiced on scores/judging, shadowing skating/performances themselves. The results - opposite to our opinions, personal references - cannot be changed, so there's actually very interesting and informative for me to see different takes on those issues mentioned. The thing is about 'being yourself' in voicing opinions without being to much of 'plain hater' or 'plain uber' (or not being them at all, which would be the best and would help to avoid whole venom and bitterness). We often expect a perfection in balancing scores/judging, perfectly balanced performances, yet we cannot control ourselves often and lose 'self-balance' in commenting...

  12. #1077
    Sending love to Liam Firus too ice coverage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Do the individual winners in each discipline receive medals? If not, I think that's way too bad. I would love to see Vanessa & Morgan on top of the podium with the French National anthem playing!
    Addendum/next best thing:

    Today Vanessa posted banquet video of Morgan and herself receiving their laurel crowns and gifts for placing first overall .

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BTUPyxUl...ames_sk8&hl=en (posted Apr 25)


    Quote Originally Posted by auser View Post
    Thank you ice coverage . Your depth of knowledge is as impressive as ever
    You are too kind, auser. Really appreciate your positive feedback .
    Last edited by ice coverage; 04-25-2017 at 11:11 PM.

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