2017-2018 Canadian Road to the Olympics

No senior TES minimums for Joseph & Conrad? :gaah:

From Warsaw Cup we had Liam take a bronze medal but his score was about 200 points. I am not sure how much the medal helps with that score. Elladj did not compete despite being signed up. Emy scored 136.47 which, to put in context, is lower than both Hannah and Alison (and Aurora in Brisbane) who are juniors. Arnold/Williams improved from Lake Placid to finish with 132.10 where as Lanaghan/Razgulajevs scored around the same.

So far if you had to look to a lady to steal the day (and a top 5 spot at Nationals) it looks like that lady will be Alicia Pineault. What the rest of the ladies are up to with junior level scores I don't think I want to know. Though I do want to know what's happened to Mallet.

I don't need to talk about France I think.

Medals so far

9 gold, 4 silver, 10 bronze

23 total

Skate Canada's own medal gallery hasn't been updated so we're out of sync now. They also dodn't count Hannah's gold medal for some reason. :noshake:

The schedule for Skate Canada Challenge was updated: https://skatecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2018-Challenge-Block-Schedule-Nov-20.pdf

Mango said:

No senior TES minimums for Joseph & Conrad? :gaah:

From Warsaw Cup we had Liam take a bronze medal but his score was about 200 points. I am not sure how much the medal helps with that score. Elladj did not compete despite being signed up. Emy scored 136.47 which, to put in context, is lower than both Hannah and Alison (and Aurora in Brisbane) who are juniors. Arnold/Williams improved from Lake Placid to finish with 132.10 where as Lanaghan/Razgulajevs scored around the same.

So far if you had to look to a lady to steal the day (and a top 5 spot at Nationals) it looks like that lady will be Alicia Pineault. What the rest of the ladies are up to with junior level scores I don't think I want to know. Though I do want to know what's happened to Mallet.

I don't need to talk about France I think.

Medals so far

9 gold, 4 silver, 10 bronze

23 total

Skate Canada's own medal gallery hasn't been updated so we're out of sync now. They also dodn't count Hannah's gold medal for some reason. :noshake:

The schedule for Skate Canada Challenge was updated: https://skatecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2018-Challenge-Block-Schedule-Nov-20.pdf

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i won't be going... only time i could go is sunday.... after a crazy week of work... and without being able to see my sons.... i feel deflated... i will stream as much as I can

4everchan said:

i won't be going... only time i could go is sunday.... after a crazy week of work... and without being able to see my sons.... i feel deflated... i will stream as much as I can

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Looks like you're going to miss Nam too: https://www.facebook.com/richmondtc...7134312649953/510469162649799/?type=3&theater

But you'll get to see junior men. So a bit of Bruce.

Mango said:

No senior TES minimums for Joseph & Conrad? :gaah:

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Pity these two. Both of them deserved to get senior B's. I can totally see Joseph Phan finishing in the top 5 ( maybe even podium ) at nationals. In other words skate well enough for at least a 4CC spot but he can't go due to no international senior score.

Last year Sadovsky , Nadeau and Messing got senior Bs that conflicted with the challenge giving them byes to nationals. That increased the men's field from 18 to 21 skaters and forced TSN to cover the last 2 groups for the free ( not just the last one )

I wonder if TSN was mad about the extra skaters being covered and that is what is preventing SC from giving Phan and Orzel their deserved senior B's.

nadster said:

Pity these two. Both of them deserved to get senior B's. I can totally see Joseph Phan finishing in the top 5 ( maybe even podium ) at nationals. In other words skate well enough for at least a 4CC spot but he can't go due to no international senior score.

Last year Sadovsky , Nadeau and Messing got senior Bs that conflicted with the challenge giving them byes to nationals. That increased the men's field from 18 to 21 skaters and forced TSN to cover the last 2 groups for the free ( not just the last one )

I wonder if TSN was mad about the extra skaters being covered and that is what is preventing SC from giving Phan and Orzel their deserved senior B's.

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with all the crap happening... i wouldn't be surprised if that's related... in the meantime, two young athletes who REALLY needs the international senior experience aren't getting it.... Joseph and Conrad are huge talents and have amazing potential to fill in BIG shoes.... Conrad is a rough diamond.... needs lots and lots of polish but has quadster star super powers.... Joseph can land two quads already at 16 but is doing things slowly but surely, sort of adding a jump a year kind of thing.... He has IMHO the best skating skills of all junior men right now, and I would put him only behind Patrick and Liam in Canada for his blade work.

And yet, they are doing silly challenge next week, instead of going to a Senior B where they could no only gain experience but a much needed TES Minimum and also, some ISU ranking points which can make a huge difference in the big championships.

UGH

4everchan said:

with all the crap happening... i wouldn't be surprised if that's related... in the meantime, two young athletes who REALLY needs the international senior experience aren't getting it.... Joseph and Conrad are huge talents and have amazing potential to fill in BIG shoes.... Conrad is a rough diamond.... needs lots and lots of polish but has quadster star super powers.... Joseph can land two quads already at 16 but is doing things slowly but surely, sort of adding a jump a year kind of thing.... He has IMHO the best skating skills of all junior men right now, and I would put him only behind Patrick and Liam in Canada for his blade work.

And yet, they are doing silly challenge next week, instead of going to a Senior B where they could no only gain experience but a much needed TES Minimum and also, some ISU ranking points which can make a huge difference in the big championships.

UGH

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I agree. I think it's Joseph who skates to the God Father this year...Anyway, he has a ton of promise and they should do whatever it takes to promote him. Patrick, Kevin, and maybe even Keegan, will be leaving the sport after this season. They need to get these young guns in front of as many international panels as possible.

mrrice said:

I agree. I think it's Joseph who skates to the God Father this year...Anyway, he has a ton of promise and they should do whatever it takes to promote him. Patrick, Kevin, and maybe even Keegan, will be leaving the sport after this season. They need to get these young guns in front of as many international panels as possible.

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The 2018-2019 season will be the year that Skate Canada starts working with he up and comers.

singerskates said:

The 2018-2019 season will be the year that Skate Canada starts working with he up and comers.

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IMO, it doesn't take that much "Work" to send a young skater to a Senior B. Are they worried about money? Is that why they're not sending them to more prominent events? Winning a challenger doesn't help with minimum score requirement does it?

mrrice said:

IMO, it doesn't take that much "Work" to send a young skater to a Senior B. Are they worried about money? Is that why they're not sending them to more prominent events? Winning a challenger doesn't help with minimum score requirement does it?

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Challenge is a national event so it doesn't do anything but qualifying the skater to nationals....

Senior B would be an opportunity to get Senior TES Minimums..

I agree that sending the boys out would not be that much work..


I am not sure that the new generation is only going to get some attention in 18-19... some skaters have been helped for a couple years, for instance, Soucisse and Firus have been sent around since their beginning season. Nic is getting some help too. Alicia as well. Emy got a senior B. And honestly, Alicia and Emy are not at the level of performance of a Joseph Phan.

mrrice said:

IMO, it doesn't take that much "Work" to send a young skater to a Senior B. Are they worried about money? Is that why they're not sending them to more prominent events? Winning a challenger doesn't help with minimum score requirement does it?

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I can tell you this. Skate Canada is not a business. It's run like a charity. Skate Canada use to host the Skate Canada Adult Championships from 2004 to 2016. They had a meeting with us adults at the last Adult Candians in Oakville, ON asking us to drum up funds to run it. But then at their annual meeting, they cancelled all future Adult Canadians because of lack of funds. It was like they pulled the rug out from under us adult skaters. We adult skaters never got the chance to raise money so that we could continue to compete at Adult Canadians. So yeah, it's a money issue not sending lower ranked skaters to Senior B competitions.

singerskates said:

I can tell you this. Skate Canada is not a business. It's run like a charity. Skate Canada use to host the Skate Canada Adult Championships from 2004 to 2016. They had a meeting with us adults at the last Adult Candians in Oakville, ON asking us to drum up funds to run it. But then at their annual meeting, they cancelled all future Adult Canadians because of lack of funds. It was like they pulled the rug out from under us adult skaters. We adult skaters never got the chance to raise money so that we could continue to compete at Adult Canadians. So yeah, it's a money issue not sending lower ranked skaters to Senior B competitions.

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well... if I may, if I were to run Skate Canada, I wouldn't fund adult skating. I would keep all the money for the athletes competing in worlds and olympics. Adults who skate do it by passion and love.. .It's a hobby... it's normal it isn't funded... just like when talented musicians get in conservatories on scholarship... Often, some adults will be able to enter these schools but will pay their ride. I know it may sound harsh and it's not directed at you at all, but it's normal to invest money on the youth.

4everchan said:

well... if I may, if I were to run Skate Canada, I wouldn't fund adult skating. I would keep all the money for the athletes competing in worlds and olympics. Adults who skate do it by passion and love.. .It's a hobby... it's normal it isn't funded... just like when talented musicians get in conservatories on scholarship... Often, some adults will be able to enter these schools but will pay their ride. I know it may sound harsh and it's not directed at you at all, but it's normal to invest money on the youth.

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I can tell you this, we adult skaters always paid our way for every event no one chipped in anything our way. We paid the second highest fees for our events, even though our program times were mostly half the freeskate program times. We never got free clothing, lodding or anything. And when we wanted to brainstorm fundraising ideas to keep Adult Candians going after they teased us with some kind of input, we were shut down. No chance. So now we can only compete provincially or internationally. Many of us can't afford to compete internationally. There is the ISI (Ice Skating Institude) who does Adult Nationals but it is not available in Canada. There programs and competitions are much different. And we adult Canadian skaters don't want to be competing against the book either. That's more like doing test.

singerskates said:

I can tell you this, we adult skaters always paid our way for every event no one chipped in anything our way. We paid the second highest fees for our events, even though our program times were mostly half the freeskate program times. We never got free clothing, lodding or anything. And when we wanted to brainstorm fundraising ideas to keep Adult Candians going after they teased us with some kind of input, we were shut down. No chance. So now we can only compete provincially or internationally. Many of us can't afford to compete internationally. There is the ISI (Ice Skating Institude) who does Adult Nationals but it is not available in Canada. There programs and competitions are much different. And we adult Canadian skaters don't want to be competing against the book either. That's more like doing test.

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as I said, i understand your fury and disappointment... but as a tax payer, I wouldn't want a cent from my money going to adult figure skaters or masters swimmers (which is the equivalent for my sport but a speedo is less expensive than skates and costumes and pool is cheaper than ice).

Skate Canada already doesn't have enough cash... it needs to use i wisely and send JoJo and CoCo to seniors b if they cannot even do that, well sorry but adult skating :Not happening.

this being said I sympathize with your situation but that's the thing in many fields... as an adult, can I easily take part in all these activities and expect it to be cheap? Nope... I have to work and pay for them myself. It's normal that a government subsidizes the youth but not the adults.

4everchan said:

as I said, i understand your fury and disappointment... but as a tax payer, I wouldn't want a cent from my money going to adult figure skaters or masters swimmers (which is the equivalent for my sport but a speedo is less expensive than skates and costumes and pool is cheaper than ice).

Skate Canada already doesn't have enough cash... it needs to use i wisely and send JoJo and CoCo to seniors b if they cannot even do that, well sorry but adult skating :Not happening.

this being said I sympathize with your situation but that's the thing in many fields... as an adult, can I easily take part in all these activities and expect it to be cheap? Nope... I have to work and pay for them myself. It's normal that a government subsidizes the youth but not the adults.

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We adult skaters weren't asking for Skate Canada to pay for our Nationals, just to give us the chance to fund raise to make it possible to continue our Adult Canadians. We too pay taxes. They never gave us the chance to fund raise. So no adult Canadians. In the USA Adult Skaters are on the Adult Skating committee and they do fund raise. We adult Canadian skaters were never allowed to create or join the adult skating committee or board and so we had no say in anything.

singerskates said:

We adult skaters weren't asking for Skate Canada to pay for our Nationals, just to give us the chance to fund raise to make it possible to continue our Adult Canadians. We too pay taxes. They never gave us the chance to fund raise. So no adult Canadians. In the USA Adult Skaters are on the Adult Skating committee and they do fund raise. We adult Canadian skaters were never allowed to create or join the adult skating committee or board and so we had no say in anything.

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sound to me they didn't want their names to be linked to adult skating... so the alternative here is to start an association for adult skaters in canada that will organize its own events.

4everchan said:

sound to me they didn't want their names to be linked to adult skating... so the alternative here is to start an association for adult skaters in canada that will organize its own events.

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What I did was I reached out to the Ice Skating Institude to see if they could get the Adult Skaters and Skate Canada keep the youth and Competitive Skaters. The only thing is that most of us Adult skaters who compete skate on the same ice as the StarSkaters & Compeitive Skaters. This would also mean that coaches would have to belong to both Associations; Skate Canada & the Ice Skating Institude.

4everchan said:

exactly... some people are writing Gabby off already... give her a break... 5 triples landed in her long after such a surgery...
others are asking why Alaine is still competing... well, that's none of your business folks... Alaine could compete for another 5 years and I would still be cheering for her.

and enough of the "she's no swan" of course she isn't... she is a proud Canadian goose...

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seeing all those statements told with tone of 'God's truth' about being or not being a swan during IdF GP and watching the competition left a bitter taste in my mouth, so I refrained from posting things I'd sure regret to say being discouraged, anoyed or just in a bad mood; now, I reminded myself about those 'swan' talk and Your witty post inspired me to throw my little two cents...

while I do get that 'Swan Lake' is, well, about swans, why so many people are taking this story and balletic surroundings/convention into every other area? For me, this 'literal' translation of the story and swan character in terms of physicality/way of movement belongs to ballet, because of its specifics and 'Swan Lake' origins - the translation and giving out the image of the swan is natural there, this picture created, synthesis of story and what it looks like in ballet is usually a perspective we have thinking of 'Swan Lake', even in just musical sense. But should it be an absolute point of every referrence, every usage of Tchaikovski's music? I don't think so - while this is an usual route to search for a 'swan' in 'Swan Lake' program, it should not narrow anyone's perspective to the point of judging who is a better 'swan', even if someone did not even intend to become/resemble one.

The key is for me the balance in referrence and applying music/story/image in a way to suit a skater, not the common thinking of 'Swan Lake' - if a skater is ballet-trained and have goods/attitude and will to do a literal translation of the piece, go ahead and make it work the best for him/her; but there's no obligation to follow that suit by every skater, especially those who may want to use the music and ploy as a powerful platform to present strong character and a mix of emotion, to 'seduce' audience by the performance, not making an attempt to be someone else just because people are stuck to the one, particular image of things.

For me, Kaetlyn did not ever indicate nor show an intention to 'become a swan', at least in pure balletic sense. Seeing her FS, even flawed, resonates with referrences to the character of black swan, Odille, but reaches for different tools/ways of expression to perform/interpret the music. Personally, I respect and find refreshing to see the mix of hard and soft in Kaetlyn's movement in this FS, all still laced with sensuality and power; I like this 'unapologetic' feature in her performance about not forcing herself to achieve 'perfect swan' posture, image, gesture out there - she's doing herself foremost, because choreograpahy, musical arrangement, costume and overall design seem to be created to show her and her skating off on the first place, using a powerful, impactful platform of 'Swan Lake' music, theme, story.

I think it's definitely not about the most beautiful tutu, feathers in your costume, balletic arms, legs' extensions, hitting ballet positions out there - all of this may make you look like a swan, but it does not guarantee a successful program, compelling performance, being comfortable and confident.

Kaetlyn's costume and makeup are very well matched with the black swan. it's the program that needs more balletic touches. Stretched arms and body and a few ballet positions would look much better. I love Kaetlyn, but I prefer Alina Zagitova Don Quixote LP and Swan Lake sp for the choreography.

4everchan said:

well... if I may, if I were to run Skate Canada, I wouldn't fund adult skating. I would keep all the money for the athletes competing in worlds and olympics. Adults who skate do it by passion and love.. .It's a hobby... it's normal it isn't funded... just like when talented musicians get in conservatories on scholarship... Often, some adults will be able to enter these schools but will pay their ride. I know it may sound harsh and it's not directed at you at all, but it's normal to invest money on the youth.

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Just to play devil’s advocate, how many of the scholarship students who leave Canadian conservatories each year make a solid living as musicians, much less rise to the top and become household names? In the US, that number is appallingly low because job opportunities are so few. Yes it’s a little better for orchestral musicians, but even those positions are limited.

At least in the US, tuition at music conservatories is appallingly high, so anyone who is offered a partial scholarship, for example, no matter how young and talented, will likely take on a huge amount of debt to finance the rest. So I could easily argue that the scholarship offer is used as bait to entice the student to enroll, rather than as an investment in the future, and that even scholarship students generally end up studying music because it’s a passion, not because they have a realistic shot at a career.

Maybe it’s different in Canada.

Sorry, Canadians, for straying so far off topic!

Tavi... said:

Just to play devil’s advocate, how many of the scholarship students who leave Canadian conservatories each year make a solid living as musicians, much less rise to the top and become household names? In the US, that number is appallingly low because job opportunities are so few. Yes it’s a little better for orchestral musicians, but even those positions are limited.

At least in the US, tuition at music conservatories is appallingly high, so anyone who is offered a partial scholarship, for example, no matter how young and talented, will likely take on a huge amount of debt to finance the rest. So I could easily argue that the scholarship offer is used as bait to entice the student to enroll, rather than as an investment in the future, and that even scholarship students generally end up studying music because it’s a passion, not because they have a realistic shot at a career.

Maybe it’s different in Canada.

Sorry, Canadians, for straying so far off topic!

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It is indeed very off topic but I will keep it short.

The cost of tuition in Canadian universities/conservatories is very cheap compared to US... So yes, many students manage to get an education at the same price as in any other fields... Whether or not they will end up making money as a performer it's hard to say..

We all know that enrollment in music faculties is too high as they need to provide experience (opera, symphony, chamber music, etc) in various fields to all their students.... so for the handful of great singers that will end up having a decent local/national career, there are dozens of singers enrolled to do secondary roles and chorus... same in the orchestras....

But strangely, it's not always the most gifted who make it... it's not always the ones who work the hardest either... One has to have a lot of drive nowadays and a lot of luck.... Orchestral musicians can make a living playing all sorts of things. Others will do so differently. They will teach etc... but there is room for a lot people.. just like in any other field. However, i have had my share of ups and downs and yes.. it's not the easiest life... however, when I look at my friends with their little house, car and dog... their two children and stable jobs... I am happy to live the way I live