2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Well, as the japanese ladies thread is already up, we should start the russian one too =)

After all at this point, we are mostly discussing 2017-2018 prospects anyways, so probably more appropriate.
 

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Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Interesting to look back after the year has passed (schade, time flies). Well, what did I write then?

1. The main question is whether Zhenya can keep up. If yes, she will break all the records and will make all the great lady skaters from the FS history, well...history.
Yep, she could keep up and she broke all the records multiple times. The new main question is if she can skate like that during the Olympic year. If yes, well, there are no superlatives that could not be applied to her. It will be truly amazing. Let’s wait for her new programs. I am sure they will be very different from this year to knock out one of the last legs of her critics’ (a.k.a haters) foundation: “her programs are all the same”.

2. The second main question is what our Olympic champs Adelina and Yulia have to offer.
Adelina offered nothing. With Yulia it was one big drama. She started like it were no tomorrow. Her new SP was a diamond, a masterpiece. And with Urmanov we waited her stamina to come back for a clean FS. Then CoR happened, then she fell in Sochi…Yulia is still an icon and everyone is waiting for her comeback. I hope as well but the hope is getting weaker. Adelina for the next season? I don’t believe. I will be happy if I am wrong: her after Sochi skating is a treat for eyes. If only she could jump like she jumped before.

3. The third main question is if Liza is back with a stable 3A.
Never happened. And 3A was the least of Liza’s worries although she kept the place for it doing 2A early in the programs. Alas. I don’t believe Liza will be able to be anyone but “another Leonova” with GP assignments being the maximum she can get.

4. The fourth main question is what lessons Radionova is going to learn after such emotionally disastrous season for her. Clapping with a weak smile after Medvedeva’s 151 she professed: yes, you are the queen this year, not me.
Deja vu. Nothing changed. I could ask myself the same question the year after. At WTT Elena also clapped with a weak smile now after Medvedeva’s 160. Next season? Black box. Although she has the goods. Her SP was fabulous. She just has to control her jumps. Can she?

5. The fifth main question is whether the puberty is over for Anna with all her terrible falls so that she can build on her fabulous Boston performance.
Helsinki was one big disappointment for me and other Anna’s fans. She was gorgeous at CoR. She was convincing (I would move her to silver) at GPF. She was imperfect but still solid at the Nationals and Europeans. And then the collapse. What’s next for her? Is she going to make the team? Big questions. I truly hope she can. Not only is she a stunning beauty – she has the fastest and most mature skating in the Russian field (Adelina aside). When she is on, watching her is a treat. And she can get any medal in any competition but gold.

6. Less important questions for the seniors: will the coach change bring any major changes for Maria Sotskova?
She had her personal brand push after the Nationals but she could not capitalize on it. I don’t see her in the 2018 Russian team but I may be wrong. For one thing, she saved our spots again after she did it last season at Junior worlds.

Is Leonova going to retire?
Never – she is eternal.

Will we see more of Artemyeva's beauty on ice?
No, she quit.

Will we see Sima again?
May be yes, may be no. She is too young to become “Leonova” and too unsuccessful to keep competing in the current cutthroat field.

7. The main question in juniors is whether Polina overcomes her injury and her growth to continue her dominance which was beyond any doubt just before the junior worlds.

That’s another big disappointment after Yulia and Anna’s worlds. Polina showed unbelievable maturity and grace in Saransk JGP. But the injury affected her jumps. I am pessimistic about her next season. Again, hope that I am wrong.

8. The second main question is how the strongest in years (and may be in the whole history of FS) junior lady squad is going to fare.

On the one hand, not that good. “The angel” Gubanova showed both outstanding and mediocre performances. The best in the world (with Yulia) spinner Lozko was hit by URs on everything and virtually disappeared. A strongly PRed Nugumanova was not only inconsistent but also URed. “A late bloomer” Konstantinova sort of remained a late bloomer bombing at key competitions. Another hope Tarusina was unlucky to get into a bus crash before her first JGP. But, on the other hand, the season has brought us Alina Zagitova who was on no one’s screen a year ago. And she was as dominant in juniors as her team mate Medvedeva in seniors beating the clean reigning junior world champion with the skate of her life by hefty 7 points and breaking the junior world record by more than 10 points. Alina enters the new season as one of the strongest senior contenders with the goods no one in the senior world could offer so far like fully backloaded FP with 3Lz-3Lo, no URs and perfect edges.

Summing up, in seniors we have Medvedeva in the outer space.
Then we have the first tier to fight for the other 2 spots: Anna, Alina, Elena, and a bit behind Maria. Polina can be there as well if she recovers.
After that comes the second tier: Liza, Stasya, Alena. Here could be Adelina and Yulia as well. I don’t think they have any team chances next season but their comeback will be very welcome. All of them will have a GP spot as the main target.
And what will happen in juniors – that’s the mystery after we all saw recent quad combos.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Here is the news:

Eteri Tutberidze (Evgenia Medvedeva's coach) held a press conference today. She explained what is going on with the young junior star Polina Tsurskaya, and it is not good news unfortunately.
Polina has serious health problems caused by genetic predispositions, said the coach of the 15-year-old athlete, Eteri Tutberidze.
"She was repeatedly taken to Germany and operated on, but she has rare genetic predispositions - if you know of such diseases as exostosis ... When the bones grow in one place, and in another they just fall off. This is a rare genetic thing.
"She went to the (Junior) World Cup with a very serious diagnosis...but she wants to skate, so we will do everything possible. She has complicated health problems, but is a huge talent. We and the federation are trying to support her health, and while she has at least some chance to skate - has the desire - we will do it."

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FIFSmagazine%2Fposts%2F10156018122967538
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
They never trust their own doctors. :laugh:

Or Pilots, At least not when we were there. It doesn't really matter as their trains are beautiful, fast, and filled with delicious treats. It wasn't just Russia either, Japan was the same way. The people we spoke with preferred to take the train rather than fly. I remember taking the train up Mt Fuji and it was so beautiful. When you start at sea level and watch the seasons change as you go higher up the Mountain. Stunning.
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
The "Polina" curse continues... We thought when Polina Edmonds came out, the curse was over. One is more talented than the previous Polina, and also more unfortunate :sad4: I won't be surprised if Polina Tsurskaya retires next year. I was worrying about her being too tall, but it's nothing compared with bone growing and falling repeatedly
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Wow. Unimaginably sad for Polina.

Part of me wishes very much that she didn't skate for Russia now. Caroline Zhang overcame congenital hip dysplasia to almost make Worlds. The Russian depth in ladies doesn't seem like it will be very good at fostering struggling talent long-term. Which is, of course, not a negative against Russia - but the sheer depth does mean that some will suffer.
 

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Joined
Mar 26, 2014
wait, so Germany has the best doctors or what? Why do Russians always go to Germany for medical treatments?

There are 140 million Russians and how many go to Germany for medical treatments? 10 thousand a year? Basic care in Russia is generally not worse, I would say better than in the West. I remember my 1.5 year boy had a severe cold during out vacation in Sothern Germany. We went to a local pediatrician and she said that it was nothing serious and offered...to eat ice. Thank you, not thank you. What is true, though, is that the top level surgery in Russia is lagging behind. That's why those riches who need it and can afford it do go to Germany and who cannot afford Germany go to Israel.
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
There are 140 million Russians and how many go to Germany for medical treatments? 10 thousand a year? Basic care in Russia is generally not worse, I would say better than in the West. I remember my 1.5 year boy had a severe cold during out vacation in Sothern Germany. We went to a local pediatrician and she said that it was nothing serious and offered...to eat ice. Thank you, not thank you. What is true, though, is that the top level surgery in Russia is lagging behind. That's why those riches who need it and can afford it do go to Germany and who cannot afford Germany go to Israel.

Weird example...Germany has rural areas and normal Doctors in the little villages. Not every Doctor you meet is going to be a luminary in their field, also there are good ones and bad ones, as everywhere. There are even a lot of young medical professionals leaving after their education because they have better quality of life, or are paid better outside of Germany. But still, when it comes to the area of complicated medicine here are some of the best Doctors in the World. That people from Russia come to get treatment is not unusual. It's often reported in the Newspaper, especially when it's children who have some rare disease. Medical science is a big part of our system. Charité is a large Hospital in Berlin and especially famous.
 

[email protected]

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Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Weird example...Germany has rural areas and normal Doctors in the little villages. Not every Doctor you meet is going to be a luminary in their field, also there are good ones and bad ones, as everywhere. There are even a lot of young medical professionals leaving after their education because they have better quality of life, or are paid better outside of Germany. But still, when it comes to the area of complicated medicine here are some of the best Doctors in the World. That people from Russia come to get treatment is not unusual. It's often reported in the Newspaper, especially when it's children who have some rare disease. Medical science is a big part of our system. Charité is a large Hospital in Berlin and especially famous.

What was weird about it? Did you read what I wrote? One person claimed that all the Russians tend to go to Germany for medical treatment. Another one replied that the Russians do not trust their doctors and pilots. Both statements are sheer nonsense. There are 100 million flight passengers a year in Russia. Yes, we fly 3 times less per capita than in U.S. but it's nothing like "the Russians do not trust their pilots". My personal experience in Germany was that a rural doctor was "not a luminary in her field" and that for basic needs our doctors are no worse if not even better than Western especially when you build personal relationships. That's why the statement that the Russians go for medical treatment to Germany is not true. At the same time, for some advanced cases we are lagging behind - do I have to repeat myself? I went for heart surgery to Munich, for example. Hence, there is nothing surprising that Polina goes to Germany to treat her rare condition.
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
What was weird about it? Did you read what I wrote? One person claimed that all the Russians tend to go to Germany for medical treatment. Another one replied that the Russians do not trust their doctors and pilots. Both statements are sheer nonsense. There are 100 million flight passengers a year in Russia. Yes, we fly 3 times less per capita than in U.S. but it's nothing like "the Russians do not trust their pilots". My personal experience in Germany was that a rural doctor was "not a luminary in her field" and that for basic needs our doctors are no worse if not even better than Western especially when you build personal relationships. That's why the statement that the Russians go for medical treatment to Germany is not true. At the same time, for some advanced cases we are lagging behind - do I have to repeat myself? I went for heart surgery to Munich, for example. Hence, there is nothing surprising that Polina goes to Germany to treat her rare condition.

You took one example and made it sound like every doctor is the same in Germany. Had you mentioned your heart surgery as an example it would have changed the whole post. It is a fact that Germany has some of the best Doctors in the World, and those who can afford it, do come. All in all it is a question of the financial situation. Germany has healthcare and so everyone gets treatment, but if it's something more complicated a lot of people have troubles, too. Of the 140 million Russians you mentioned, how many have severe medical problems? And of those who do, how many can afford a flight to Germany, hotel costs, a translator and of course the treatment itself which certainly won't be cheap?

I think the "Russians" one poster mentioned are not all Russians, but the figure skaters. You want to defend your country and I wanted to defend mine. All is good.
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
Here is the news:

Eteri Tutberidze (Evgenia Medvedeva's coach) held a press conference today. She explained what is going on with the young junior star Polina Tsurskaya, and it is not good news unfortunately.
Polina has serious health problems caused by genetic predispositions, said the coach of the 15-year-old athlete, Eteri Tutberidze.
"She was repeatedly taken to Germany and operated on, but she has rare genetic predispositions - if you know of such diseases as exostosis ... When the bones grow in one place, and in another they just fall off. This is a rare genetic thing.
"She went to the (Junior) World Cup with a very serious diagnosis...but she wants to skate, so we will do everything possible. She has complicated health problems, but is a huge talent. We and the federation are trying to support her health, and while she has at least some chance to skate - has the desire - we will do it."

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FIFSmagazine%2Fposts%2F10156018122967538

And here's a statement from Polina's mother:
http://m.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20170428/1119739454.html
Polina's current injury - the herniated disk. Prior to that she had a torn ligament, then the Kenig disease, which is not necessarily genetic. She has no other diseases, including genetic, nor does her father. She is training hard and is willing to continue her career.
Polina underwent a treatment in Germany, the doctors allowed her to perform the jumps. For now the doctors' and coaches' decision was not to jump because it's the end of the season and there is no need.

Translated by TAHbKa on FSU https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...h-gorshkov-kogan-tutberidze-medvedeva.101171/
 

silverfoxes

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
I think Piggytailprodigy refers to those Russian athletes, not to the population in general.

Yes, I am curious why many Russian athletes go to Germany or Israel for medical treatment. If there are more specialized doctors in those countries, ok. But I still don't understand why a country as large and sports-focused as Russia wouldn't have more and better options for treatment at home. Is it because of "brain drain" or something else?
 

ejnsofi

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
Yes, I am curious why many Russian athletes go to Germany or Israel for medical treatment. If there are more specialized doctors in those countries, ok. But I still don't understand why a country as large and sports-focused as Russia wouldn't have more and better options for treatment at home. Is it because of "brain drain" or something else?

Brain drain is quite possible but also some people in Eastern European countries believe that "Western" medicine is better. There is a doctor in the hospital I study in who works for 6 months in Poland with students and next 6 months he spends in the Netherlands and works as neurosurgeon. He told us once a story that Polish family visited him in Dutch hospital to ask for consult and possible surgery. They were collecting some money for that purpose. When he asked them why there were doing it they answered that they believed he would operate better in the Netherlands.

The other option is that German doctors are the best specialist in the world in some particular cases (just like Japanese oncologists are leaders in treating stomach cancer)
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
I think Piggytailprodigy refers to those Russian athletes, not to the population in general.

The wording was "Why do Russians always go to Germany for medical treatments?" It says "Russians" not "the athletes" and says "always". Together these two make no sense.

Yes, I am curious why many Russian athletes go to Germany or Israel for medical treatment. If there are more specialized doctors in those countries, ok. But I still don't understand why a country as large and sports-focused as Russia wouldn't have more and better options for treatment at home. Is it because of "brain drain" or something else?

Once again, athletes mostly do surgeries. 90+% of the Russian athletes do it at home. There are some famous specialists. But in general if we talk about state of the art things they are not here for various reasons. The main one is the decline of medical education after the Soviet Union colapse. The other one is the lack of medical science. One more thing is the lack of funding to get modern equipment. Health care is a very expensive thing nowadays.

I used to be an athlete in track n field. One day I tore my cartliage (meniscus). It was in early 90-s. The only solution our specialists could offer was to cut it off. I did not like it. Then I read that in Sweden they had a breakthrough operation to heal it. Decades have passed. Now they heal meniscus in many countries. But I think in Russia they could still offer just to cut it....luckily mine has healed itself after a month in cast. Just have to fix the knee while skiing now.
 

Sweet Dream

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Yes, I am curious why many Russian athletes go to Germany or Israel for medical treatment. If there are more specialized doctors in those countries, ok. But I still don't understand why a country as large and sports-focused as Russia wouldn't have more and better options for treatment at home. Is it because of "brain drain" or something else?

It is more or less related to some "fixed mindset", I think. They just believe that those sports medicine specialists in Germany are better. To be honest, Plushenko's spine surgery is not that advanced as some thought, which can also be done successfully in Russia, so I don't know why he chose to go to Israel for that operation. Perhaps the service there makes some difference? I think each country has its own sophisticated medical disciplines, and Russia is no exception.
 
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