2018-19 Russian Pairs' figure skating

madison · Jan 8, 2018

puremagic said:
Yeah, I wouldn't say so... Here's protocol of the free programs from Zagreb. Weak 104 points, mistake and what's most important - low GOE at most of their elements. Very bland team. Even another new pair Kudryavtseva/Spiridonov looks much better, although their elements on the bad level. But what a cool SP, tho!

This is one competition.
I didn't follow them closely, but i know that at the Russian Cups they did pretty well and at the Russian Nationals were the third junior team.
They have a good chance to be again at the Juniors in first three... they have triples so a clear advantage over Panfilova/Rylov.

puremagic · Jan 8, 2018

madison said:
This is one competition.
I didn't follow them closely, but i know that at the Russian Cups they did pretty well and at the Russian Nationals were the third junior team.
They have a good chance to be again at the Juniors in first three... they have triples so a clear advantage over Panfilova/Rylov.

I edited my post, sure they will fight for the top 3, but I thought they're seniors and won't participate at this competition.

Spirals for Miles · Jan 8, 2018

My favorite junior pair is Pavliuchenko/Khodykin, and after that, I like Kostiukovich/Ialin (although Polina needs a better matched partner) Panfilova and Rylov need to upgrade their tech content a bit

.

madison · Jan 8, 2018

puremagic said:
I edited my post, sure they will fight for the top 3, but I thought they're seniors and won't participate at this competition.

I think they will. They still have the age to be juniors (dates of birth: april 2001 and august 1999)

hanca · Jan 8, 2018

Spirals for Miles said:
My favorite junior pair is Pavliuchenko/Khodykin, and after that, I like Kostiukovich/Ialin (although Polina needs a better matched partner) Panfilova and Rylov need to upgrade their tech content a bit .

Panfilova/Rylov may not have the triples, but they have consistency which enabled them to beat pairs who have triples. At international competitions they managed to beat twice Boikova/Kozlovski, once Alexandrovskaya/Windsor and Plavliuschenko/Khodykin.

vorravorra · Jan 8, 2018

hanca said:
Panfilova/Rylov may not have the triples, but they have consistency which enabled them to beat pairs who have triples. At international competitions they managed to beat twice Boikova/Kozlovski, once Alexandrovskaya/Windsor and Plavliuschenko/Khodykin.

Yes, but without triples they have no future, and Apollinaria realises this as she has said she is not moving to seniors but will get a good education instead. Maybe if she gets triples she may change her mind.

vorravorra · Jan 8, 2018

puremagic said:
I edited my post, sure they will fight for the top 3, but I thought they're seniors and won't participate at this competition.

M/G aren't Seniors and aren't going to be in the near future. They have plenty of time and plenty of work to do. Their coaches are not in any hurry. They didn't even participate in any Senior international competitions this season to try and get a high SB for GP spots. Boikova/Kozlovski are the ones likely moving to Seniors next season.

Mishina is a good pairs skater but Galliamov still hasn't caught up with her. And he is definitely bland compared to Mirzoev, but Mirzoev had his own problems... Galliamov is taller and stronger, and a generally nicer person, as it seems. I am hoping they will continue developing in Juniors as I really like Nastya.

gmyers · Jan 8, 2018

vorravorra said:
Yes, but without triples they have no future, and Appolinaria realises this as she has said she is not moving to seniors but will get a good education instead. Maybe if she gets triples she may change her mind.

I know she is trying to get triples but it’s amazing she is so honest about its likelihood that she’s leaving! It’s not like it isn’t common for ladies to go senior and do << triples or doubles or fall every time.

vorravorra · Jan 8, 2018

gmyers said:
I know she is trying to get triples but it’s amazing she is so honest about its likelihood that she’s leaving! It’s not like it isn’t common for ladies to go senior and do << triples or doubles or fall every time.

Well, she comes from a family that buys her $1000 shoes so she must feel she has enough prospects outside of figure skating.

madison · Jan 9, 2018

vorravorra said:
Well, she comes from a family that buys her $1000 shoes so she must feel she has enough prospects outside of figure skating.

So, doesn't she want to continue with figure skating?

vorravorra · Jan 9, 2018

madison said:
So, doesn't she want to continue with figure skating?

I think she wants to be successful at it, and if she doesn't manage to learn triples, she'd rather do something else where she can be successful.

hanca · Jan 9, 2018

vorravorra said:
Yes, but without triples they have no future, and Apollinaria realises this as she has said she is not moving to seniors but will get a good education instead. Maybe if she gets triples she may change her mind.

I think it is far too early to decide whether they have a future. They have four more years of junior eligibility. Within that time they may learn triples. On the other hand, I find it amazing that they can repeatedly beat pairs who have two triples. That says a lot about the strength of P/R’s non jumping elements.

vorravorra · Jan 9, 2018

hanca said:
I think it is far too early to decide whether they have a future. They have four more years of junior eligibility. Within that time they may learn triples.

Yes, she isn't retiring now, fortunately. And she is working hard on leaning 3S.
By the way, everyone calls her Polina.

puremagic · Jan 9, 2018

hanca said:
On the other hand, I find it amazing that they can repeatedly beat pairs who have two triples. That says a lot about the strength of P/R’s non jumping elements.

Borisova/Sopot's example didn't give you some food for thought? Their pair elements were even better, at least twist and lifts, and so... Hope Panfilova/Rylov will avoid the same fate.

hanca · Jan 9, 2018

puremagic said:
Borisova/Sopot's example didn't give you some food for thought? Their pair elements were even better, at least twist and lifts, and so... Hope Panfilova/Rylov will avoid the same fate.

No, Borisova/Sopot’s pair elements were good only in the season when they were winning. The following season, after her illness it was not only jumps that were weak. They couldn’t beat other teams without the jumps, whereas P/R showed this season that they can. P/R are consistent and their elements get high levels.
People on this forum tends to decide that one pair has a future because they have the jumps, and another pair doesn’t have a future because they don’t have the jumps. While I understand where they are coming from (after all, we saw what happened to Vygalova/Zakroev and Fedorova/Miroshkin after they aged out from junior), but on the other hand, jumps are only two elements out of 12 in the FS and one element out of 7 in the SP. If a pair is very strong in the remaining elements, it can be possible to make the points on the remaining elements. That’s how Boikova/Kozlovski, Alexandrovskaya/Windsor and others got beaten by P/R this season. And I am not denying that it will be hard for P/R to learn the jumps, but they do have time, and can the others learn to be consistent? What is harder to learn, jumps or consistency?

puremagic · Jan 9, 2018

hanca said:
No, Borisova/Sopot’s pair elements were good only in the season when they were winning. The following season, after her illness it was not only jumps that were weak. They couldn’t beat other teams without the jumps, whereas P/R showed this season that they can. P/R are consistent and their elements get high levels.

I exactly meant that season, where they were beating other teams with triples but without consistency, like Duskova/Bidar or Atakhanova/Spiridonov. I can say the same about Borisova/Sopot's first junior season: they're consistent and their elements get high levels. Still their pair elements were better: Borisova didn't look like a feather, but she seemed like that, when they were doing pair elements. Panfilova is smaller and thinner but she doesn't seem like a feather in their pair elements. Panfilova/Rylov also is skating on the high level only this season. Let's wait what will be in the next one.

hanca said:
What is harder to learn, jumps or consistency?

Harder to teach to do consistent triples and save pair elements. But overall: jumps of course. This is great school, but I don't know why they can't find a good coach for the jumps. And I'm sure they can do most of their pair elements with closed eyes. That's how they are consistent. And I'm fine with that even with double jumps, but for now it's just one successful season and nothing more. I liked one pair with Gubanova, and where they are? One good season and nothing. Borisova/Sopot - one great season and nothing. And now except Panfilova/Rylov, those twisted pairs like Poluyanova/Sopot and don't remember their lastnames - it's just hard to watch.

hanca · Jan 9, 2018

puremagic said:
I exactly meant that season, where they were beating other teams with triples but without consistency, like Duskova/Bidar or Atakhanova/Spiridonov. I can say the same about Borisova/Sopot's first junior season: they're consistent and their elements get high levels. Still their pair elements were better: Borisova didn't look like a feather, but she seemed like that, when they were doing pair elements. Panfilova is smaller and thinner but she doesn't seem like a feather in their pair elements. Panfilova/Rylov also is skating on the high level only this season. Let's wait what will be in the next one.

Harder to teach to do consistent triples and save pair elements. But overall: jumps of course. This is great school, but I don't know why they can't find a good coach for the jumps. And I'm sure they can do most of their pair elements with closed eyes. That's how they are consistent. And I'm fine with that even with double jumps, but for now it's just one successful season and nothing more. I liked one pair with Gubanova, and where they are? One good season and nothing. Borisova/Sopot - one great season and nothing. And now except Panfilova/Rylov, those twisted pairs like Poluyanova/Sopot and don't remember their lastnames - it's just hard to watch.

I disagree. You claim it is harder to learn triples than to be consistent, and yet the majority of the elite skaters learned triples, but only a few of all skaters are consistent. Without consistency there wouldn’t be decent PCS and the skaters’s marks are going to be lower. Have you noticed how Misha Ge without a quad beat skaters with quads at the GP? Not everything is about jumps. And that was in singles where jumps matter much more than in pairs.

Look how well Iliuschetchkina has done, and she does not land her triples very often.

puremagic · Jan 9, 2018

hanca said:
I disagree. You claim it is harder to learn triples than to be consistent, and yet the majority of the elite skaters learned triples, but only a few of all skaters are consistent. Without consistency there wouldn’t be decent PCS and the skaters’s marks are going to be lower. Have you noticed how Misha Ge without a quad beat skaters with quads at the GP? Not everything is about jumps. And that was in singles where jumps matter much more than in pairs.

Look how well Iliuschetchkina has done, and she does not land her triples very often.

The problem is, jumps need to be learned as soon as possible. The earlier the better. That's much harder to teach 13-15 yo skater to jump triples than 8-12 yo skater. So that's why. This is great you mentioned Misha. Can't you see the reference? Also Brown, Rippon? In their case it's quads. At junior level those pairs with double jumps can beat the others, but what's next? Shows are the best case scenario, disappearance in nowhere - the worst.

hanca · Jan 9, 2018

puremagic said:
The problem is, jumps need to be learned as soon as possible. The earlier the better. That's much harder to teach 13-15 yo skater to jump triples than 8-12 yo skater. So that's why. This is great you mentioned Misha. Can't you see the reference? Also Brown, Rippon? In their case it's quads. At junior level those pairs with double jumps can beat the others, but what's next? Shows are the best case scenario, disappearance in nowhere - the worst.

Maybe. We will see. Brown got quite far without the quad. Stolbova/Klimov have silver Olympic medal with only one triple. I like ve how confident you seem to be with knowing that Panfilova/Rylov don’t have any future, but that’s only your opinion. They may prove you wrong. And as I said, they still have 4 years in juniors.

puremagic · Jan 10, 2018

hanca said:
Maybe. We will see. Brown got quite far without the quad. Stolbova/Klimov have silver Olympic medal with only one triple. I like ve how confident you seem to be with knowing that Panfilova/Rylov don’t have any future, but that’s only your opinion. They may prove you wrong. And as I said, they still have 4 years in juniors.

I didn't say they have no future. Poluyanova/Sopot somehow learned a triple. But I'd make a bet on the pairs formed from single skaters, and maybe on several pairs from Velikov's school.

2018-19 Russian Pairs' figure skating

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