Yuzuru Hanyu: 2012-13 Season

Li'Kitsu · Aug 14, 2012

lakeside said:
I agree that maybe Jeremy can pull off any music, classical, modern, rock ‘n’ roll, etc. But I’m not sure about Takahashi, he tried many classical programs before 2007-2008 season but never pulled off any of them. Not so many people said he was an artist back then. His Sabre Dance and Paganini programs were quite awful, no better than Nobunari’s classical programs. Takahashi had a breakthrough when he skated techno Swan program at 21. Then he sticks to that style and never returns to classical music.

His Ex this last season was gorgeous to me - is that not quite classical music?
And those last programms he had - from Eye, La Strada to Blues for Klook - are hardly the same style or kind or programm either. He didn't just stick to anything.
Pre 2009 he wasn't much of an artist, that's true, but that doesn't change anything about the artist he has grown into by now (makes it even more impressive to me). Oh, and as a side note: he was coached by Morozov. Morozov!! That alone probably killed any kind of natural artistic ability :biggrin:

It's easily true that 17-year-old Yuzuru is way better at interpretating classical music than 17-year-old Daisuke was. But all you're refering to is just classical pieces - there are so many other types of music. Hanyu has yet to proof himself in most of them - I'm sure he will, but by now I think Daisukes overall quality in interpretating is still above Yuzurus (and with how great Daisuke is, that really isn't much of a critic at all).

deedee1 · Aug 14, 2012

This thread is for Yuzu and his fans, so please allow me to go on this topic because it is none of my intention. But for me these two are still the most favorite programs of Daisuke Takahashi.

LP to Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto, 2005-06 season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtFHZtvWv4A&feature=related

SP to Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, 2006-07 season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy8Ce4NCNns

He expresses the music pretty well, and I especially love his step sequences. These programs were choreographed by Morozov, but my belief is that should be rather collaborative works of Shae-Lynn and Nikolai back then.

lakeside · Aug 14, 2012

deedee1 said:
LP to Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto, 2005-06 season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtFHZ...eature=related

SP to Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, 2006-07 season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy8Ce4NCNns

I’ve watched these two programs before. That Rachmaninoff program was quite awful, actually the choreography was not the worst, but Takahashi totally did not pull it off. You should watch Lu Chen’s Rachmaninoff program, that’s the real way to skate to it. Even Denis Ten was better than Takahashi at interpreting Russian classical music. Have you watched the 2006 Olympics FS? Takahashi skated that program and he was the worst in the last group, Sawyer, Plushenko, Lambiel, Weir, Buttle, Joubert, all of them were much better and showed more artistry than Takahashi’s Rachmaninoff program. The Tchaikovsky SP was a bit better, certainly better than Tchaikovsky’s Romeo and Juliet program, but still that SP was not so expressive. Takahashi’s performances were similar to Kanako Murakami skating to classical music, just skating through them, not showing enough understanding of the music. If you compare Takahashi’s classical programs with the good classical skaters like Jeremy, Mao and Yuzru, then Takahashi would not stand out in the classical style.

OTOH, Takahashi’s sexy rock ‘n’ roll programs beat all other skaters, and he has become the rock star on ice.

Li'Kitsu said:
His Ex this last season was gorgeous to me - is that not quite classical music?

Wasn’t Takahashi’s ex The Crisis? I thought it was composed by Ennio Morricone more than a decade ago. How can you call that classical music? Real classical pieces are composed at least a century ago, like the masterpieces of Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, and Scriabin. Takahashi has yet to prove himself by pulling off real classical programs. I wish he would choose classical music this and next seasons and not that same sexy techno rock ‘n’ roll style which he has shown again and again in the past 5 years in his techno Swan, Eye, Mambo, In the Garden of Souls, and Blues for Klook programs.

Li'Kitsu said:
the only skaters that I thought could pull off music just they could are Daisuke and Jeremy.

Li'Kitsu said:
Pre 2009 he wasn't much of an artist, that's true, but that doesn't change anything about the artist he has grown into by now (makes it even more impressive to me)… It's easily true that 17-year-old Yuzuru is way better at interpretating classical music than 17-year-old Daisuke was. But all you're refering to is just classical pieces - there are so many other types of music.

I was responding to your earlier post that you thought Daisuke could pull off music just he could, so I responded that unlike Jeremy, Takahashi could not pull off classical music. I did not say Takahashi has not grown into an artist now, and I did not say he could not pull off other types of music. So what’s this whole paragraph in your second post about? I actually think Takahashi skates sexy rock ‘n’ roll programs better than everybody else, but you can’t deny that classical music is his weakness.

Li'Kitsu said:
It's easily true that 17-year-old Yuzuru is way better at interpretating classical music than 17-year-old Daisuke was.

16 year old Yuzru was way better than 26 year old Takahashi at interpretating classical music. This will remain to be Takahashi’s weakness until he proves to us that he can pull off classical programs.

Li'Kitsu said:
Oh, and as a side note: he was coached by Morozov. Morozov!! That alone probably killed any kind of natural artistic ability

This is not true. Morozov discovered Takahashi’s artistry. He choreographed the techno Swan program and people started to see Takahashi’s artistry. Before that program Takahashi was less artistic than Nobunari, who showed more artistry in his Super Mario program. Techno Swan was Takahashi’s breakthrough program. He has sticked to that style even after he left Morozov and has not stepped out of his comfort zone to try classical music again. If you’re Takahashi’s fan you should thank Morozov for helping Takahashi. To laugh and mock someone who helped your favorite is not a good attitude. Takahashi himself definitely thinks that Morozov is a big help, otherwise he wouldn’t have gone back to Morozov.

Li'Kitsu · Aug 14, 2012

@Lakeside
I'm disagreeing with pretty much everything you said... no, I'm not very knowing about classical music, so I can't tell which pieces really are and which are not (but just sound like a similar style to me) - I'm sorry. Yet I think it's defined by more than being old and russian. In regards to a skater being able to pull this music off I think it's more about things like the speed, rhythm, complexity... than about how old a piece of music is. To me, it seems like you're limiting it down to 'classic' and something like 'all that other stuff', which I don't really agree with to begin with. And no, I don't see classical music being Takahashis weakness - he might be better at other areas, but he still pulls the classical stuff off for me. And if 26-year-old Takahashi didn't skate to classical music, you can bearly compare him to Hanyu in that regard.

About Morozov: Cyber Swan was hardly as artistic as Daisukes newer programms are. It's flashy and different and very entertaining - but again, it's not as if he just kept that style for all his other programms. And that was really the only great thing Morozov did for him - and when you look at his other students... well. I think Morozov is a great coach, but his choreo mainly doesn't hold up (and as a side note, that smily was suppossed to show that the comment about Morozov was at least half a joke, but yeah...). On the other hand, I'm very grateful to Utako Nagamitsu. I'd say she has done the most for Takahashi and I'm very glad to see she's still with him.

evangeline · Aug 14, 2012

lakeside said:
Wasn’t Takahashi’s ex The Crisis? I thought it was composed by Ennio Morricone more than a decade ago. How can you call that classical music? Real classical pieces are composed at least a century ago, like the masterpieces of Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, and Scriabin.

Your view on what is 'classical music' is very narrow and IMO, incorrect. Classical music is still being written even today (e.g. Philip Glass, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st-century_classical_music) and if you were referring to the Classical period in music, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky and Scriabin were not Classical composers in that sense either. Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky were Romantic composers, and Scriabin could be considered more contemporary than anything, especially with regards to his later works.

Snoopy15 · Aug 14, 2012

In response to Hanyu's new SP, I will say that I think many of us are over-reacting a tad. There are a few factors we must consider:
1. The season has not begun yet. Most skaters are still experimenting and tweaking the content of their programs. It should be no surprise that it doesn't "Fit like a Glove" immediately, but I have faith in Hanyu. My only real concern is how he removed the transitions prior to the Quad and having Spins back-to-back. He just needs more time to commit to the choregraphy. We have seen him in Ice Shows and how well he interacts with the audience. If he can transfer that charisma onto a real performance, he WILL blow the roof off.
2. The video is of an exhibition. And yet, he still challenged the Quad Toeloop and Triple Lutz, even landing them very well. This shows his mentality towards his jumps and how confident he is. Remember, back a few years ago before the Olympics, every time someone skated a Gala at a competition, the most he would attempt was a Triple Lutz. The bar has been raised, and Hanyu, of all people, knows it.
3. The rink size. With his monstrous Triple Axel, I'm pretty sure he would have jumped right off and into the crowds. Notice how the approach to the Quad is going straight down the ice, and the Lutz is slightly curved to the corner. The Triple Axel's approach would have brought him out of the rink.
4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Hanyu went through a growth spurt this Summer. Coupled with an ankle injury, many skaters would have been in complete shambles by this time of the season. Again, this shows how well he is prepared to tackle this season.

Hanyu will keep rising at this point, it's just a matter of staying healthy and commiting to his choregraphy.

lakeside · Aug 15, 2012

When we talk about classical music, more people would associate it with Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky than with Morricone. Many skaters have skated to Rachmaninoff and most people including GS members immediately called that classical music. Few people called that Romantic music. Fewer people called a Morricone OST classical music.

Li'Kitsu said:
no, I'm not very knowing about classical music, so I can't tell which pieces really are and which are not (but just sound like a similar style to me) - I'm sorry. Yet I think it's defined by more than being old and russian.

evangeline said:
Your view on what is 'classical music' is very narrow and IMO, incorrect. Classical music is still being written even today (e.g. Philip Glass, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st-ce...lassical_music)

If you want to identify classical music this way, then Takahashi still did not pull off “old and Russian” music, which is important for figure skating and dance. Actually that’s one of his weaknesses but not his only weakness. He also tried Philip Glass but failed, and his POTO program was awful too.

Li'Kitsu said:
About Morozov: Cyber Swan was hardly as artistic as Daisukes newer programms are. It's flashy and different and very entertaining

Takahashi’s newer programs are still flashy and entertaining. Each season he has come up with something flashy and sexy and that’s why people like him. There are some who prefer his techno Swan program than the newer programs because it was more flashy and more entertaining. Plus, when Takahashi skated to slower, lyrical music he was not as good. The audience loved his Eye and Mambo programs but was not too interested in his Luv Letter and Amélie programs.

Li'Kitsu said:
the only skaters that I thought could pull off music just they could are Daisuke and Jeremy.

Li'Kitsu said:
And no, I don't see classical music being Takahashis weakness - he might be better at other areas but he still pulls the classical stuff off for me. And if 26-year-old Takahashi didn't skate to classical music, you can bearly compare him to Hanyu in that regard.

I responded to you because in your earlier post you sounded like Takahashi could pull off anything just he could, as if he could also pull off classical and lyrical programs as well as Jeremy. So I told you that’s not true, he is different from Jeremy because he is the best at one style, good at some styles but much weaker at some other styles. And it would be good for skating fans if 26 year old Takahashi would give classical music another try and leave sexy, flashy, rock ‘n’ roll programs this and next seasons. I think he should have improved from before and will show us another side of his artistry.

Li'Kitsu said:
Oh, and as a side note: he was coached by Morozov. Morozov!! That alone probably killed any kind of natural artistic ability

Li'Kitsu said:
And that was really the only great thing Morozov did for him - and when you look at his other students... well. I think Morozov is a great coach, but his choreo mainly doesn't hold up (and as a side note, that smily was suppossed to show that the comment about Morozov was at least half a joke, but yeah...). On the other hand, I'm very grateful to Utako Nagamitsu. I'd say she has done the most for Takahashi and I'm very glad to see she's still with him.

I responded to you because in your earlier post you blamed Morozov for killing any kind of natural artistic ability. I just told you that’s not true, Morozov discovered Takahashi’s artistry by giving him that techno Swan program. Morozov also choreographed the all time great Winter program for Yagudin, so it’s not like Morozov sucked with all other students. And Fernandez’ Pirates of the Caribbean program was good too. Morozov has some creativity, but after he became one of the most prolific choreographers he recycled too much and maybe he became too lazy.

I agree with you that Nagamitsu has done the most for Takahashi and I respect her for her commitment. I did not say she did not help Takahashi, I just said that Morozov also helped Takahashi. I did not compare who helped Takahashi more.

deedee1 · Aug 15, 2012

My apologies if I have offended feelings of some of Yuzuru's fans, since I wrote in my previous post that it was not my intention at all to do so.

As I made it clear a couple of times before that I am no professional in figure skating and/or classical music, thus I donot know much about what/how today's CoP would require skaters to best interpret the music and/or would determine who the best skaters are. I just picked them up because these programs were the ones which grabbed my soul back then, and they are still the most favorite ones for me even today.

These programs might be awful for some fans who are much better at understanding this sport than me, but I loved Dai's take on interpreting these music. One of the reasons I love this sport is points under CoP and/or number of titles (championships/Oympic medals) are not all that counts the most. We, fans of figure skating do not necessarily love champions/gold medalists and their styles, while we of course praise and respect and admire them for what they are. I love Dai's skating, but I always get wowed by Patrick's and Takahiko's skating skill :eek:

, love Jeremy's and Stephane's artistry :love:

, admire Evgeni's and Evan's competitive nerve

(though their skating is not my cup of tea, sorry seniorita, plushyfan, toni and others!

) And I believe Yuzuru is the future of Japanese Men's figure skating. No doubt about it. When I saw Yuzuru at age 12 for the first time, I thought, like many of you, he would be the one who win the first Olympic gold medal by a Japanese male skater ever. I look forward to witnessing how he will mature as a skater for years to come. And most important thing for me is I love this GS Forum and its members here. I have learned so much through you guys, thanks! and I enjoy it a lot to talk about the sport that I love with you guys. So my apologies again for having offended feelings of others and such a long off topic post in Yuzuru's thread. I shut up now.

lakeside · Aug 15, 2012

deedee1 said:
My apologies if I have offended feelings of some of Yuzuru's fans, since I wrote in my previous post that it was not my intention at all to do so.

As I made it clear a couple of times before that I am no professional in figure skating and/or classical music, thus I donot know much about what/how today's CoP would require skaters to best interpret the music and/or would determine who the best skaters are. I just picked them up because these programs were the ones which grabbed my soul back then, and they are still the most favorite ones for me even today……

I love Dai's skating, but I always get wowed by Patrick's and Takahiko's skating skill , love Jeremy's and Stephane's artistry , admire Evgeni's and Evan's competitive nerve (though their skating is not my cup of tea, sorry seniorita, plushyfan, toni and others! ) And I believe Yuzuru is the future of Japanese Men's figure skating. No doubt about it. When I saw Yuzuru at age 12 for the first time, I thought, like many of you, he would be the one who win the first Olympic gold medal by a Japanese male skater ever. I look forward to witnessing how he will mature as a skater for years to come. And most important thing for me is I love this GS Forum and its members here. I have learned so much through you guys, thanks! and I enjoy it a lot to talk about the sport that I love with you guys. So my apologies again for having offended feelings of others and such a long off topic post in Yuzuru's thread. I shut up now.

You sound like a really polite and sweet person. :yes: I don’t think you need to apologize if you like some skater more than others. We all like different skaters, not just champions. For instance I started to like Patrick before he became a champion. Plus, you did not bring up the topic about Takahashi in this thread. You just defended Takahashi when others argued about him. We all know you’re Takahashi’s fan, so I don’t think anyone would blame you for defending him.

Actually I was just amazed that your favorite Takahashi programs are Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky programs. Do you really think they’re better than the great programs like Eye, In the Garden of Souls, and Blues for Klook? Even though I disagree with this part of your opinion, I still respect it. I just got too amazed.

deedee1 · Aug 15, 2012

lakeside said:
Actually I was just amazed that your favorite Takahashi programs are Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky programs. Do you really think they’re better than the great programs like Eye, In the Garden of Souls, and Blues for Klook? Even though I disagree with this part of your opinion, I still respect it. I just got too amazed.

No, it's just my preference.

That's why I wrote 'the most favorite' programs.
Surely there must be other programs of Daisuke which judges value more, so that can collect more CoP points.

I am only an amateur fan. How to determine the best programs are is judges' (plus tech panel's) job, not mine. And who to value the best skater are is ISU's (plus Mr. Chinquanta's

) preference, not mine. Besides, ISU's preference changes, say, every two or four years anyway.

On whom the skating god will smile on the night of Men's free skate at Sochi simply depends on god's capriciousness. All of these things are just beyond my reach. I just enjoy and appreciate every second of performances of all skaters I love and admire.

Tonichelle · Aug 15, 2012

deedee1 said:
admire Evgeni's and Evan's competitive nerve (though their skating is not my cup of tea, sorry seniorita, plushyfan, toni and others! )

someone has to like Evan.

demarinis5 · Aug 15, 2012

Bluebonnet said:
Don't really know the music. The sound was skipping a lot. Yuzuru has matured so much! I think he should and it's a charming program. You cannot expect him always hold a pooh bear.

I have to agree with you. I thought it showed a different style for him and I liked it.

Axel99 · Aug 18, 2012

He is muscular, isnt he? heheheh :love:

http://p.twpl.jp/show/orig/h6usK

http://uproda.2ch-library.com/566582HnM/lib566582.jpg

http://p.twpl.jp/show/orig/7XQA5

seniorita · Aug 19, 2012

WOW little Hanyu grew up :love:

I cant see much from the video in the gala, only that he look matured and taller!!!
I dont see the comparisson with Chan's SS, Chan is in more matured age, he has clearly the best SS, but Hanyu is 4 years younger, was a prodigy child, has lived to the expectatios up until now and who knows where he can reach in 4 years time.

let`s talk · Aug 19, 2012

Axel99 said:
He is muscular, isnt he? heheheh

http://p.twpl.jp/show/orig/h6usK

http://uproda.2ch-library.com/566582HnM/lib566582.jpg

http://p.twpl.jp/show/orig/7XQA5

You mean "she"? Meryl is muscular? Hehe indeed. Here is a video up of the dance touch-minor's-butt couple(at around 6.25): www.dailymotion.com/video/xsx00c
New Yuzu show outfit: https://twitter.com/pokonyao/status/236889263352975360/photo/1/

But next to Mao he looks gentle. Her aristocracy (unlike some common class taste) makes anyone look noble: http://p.twipple.jp/UslRI

giulia95 · Aug 19, 2012

http://p.twipple.jp/ZtVwb

and what about this? ..the princess and her sweet little brother!! :love:

let`s talk · Aug 19, 2012

giulia95 said:
http://p.twipple.jp/ZtVwb

and what about this? ..the princess and her sweet little brother!!

Maybe, I mean the brother part, especially compared to this one:

http://kura2.photozou.jp/pub/879/2543879/photo/149652756.v1345322796.jpg

Kalina · Aug 19, 2012

Here the final part of the show with the 4S battle (with 4S+3A in the end) between Hanyu and Fernandez, from 2:15. They look friendly

giulia95 · Aug 19, 2012

I think Yuzu has to stay very close to real princesses , otherwhise it could be very unsafe and dangerous for him !! :biggrin:

Tommmy · Aug 19, 2012

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m90eb0qRQQ1rvc0zmo1_500.jpg :biggrin:

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2012-13 Season

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Li'Kitsu

deedee1

lakeside

Li'Kitsu

evangeline

Snoopy15

lakeside

deedee1

lakeside

deedee1

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

Axel99

seniorita

let`s talk

Match Penalty

giulia95

let`s talk

Match Penalty

Kalina

giulia95

Tommmy

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