2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating | Page 337 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
It is Bradie's first year competing as a senior lady. I'm sure her presentation will improve. 6th at Worlds your first time out is an excellent result.

Oh I certainly agree on that. A good result indeed, and yeah, presentation will come.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Maybe Mirai's 3a wasn't happening in Italy because she wasn't doing much practicing between the Olympics and Worlds. The red carpet was more alluring than cold practice ice.
 

bubblecherry

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Maybe Mirai's 3a wasn't happening in Italy because she wasn't doing much practicing between the Olympics and Worlds. The red carpet was more alluring than cold practice ice.

Except she was posting on her instagram story of her at/going to/from practice nearly everyday after the Oscars. She had solid weeks of training. Why do people say things with no validity as if they're true? Most skaters took a few days off after the Olympics, why is it held against Mirai because she went to the Oscars instead of going home? So ridiculous. Being slammed online simply because she didn't do a jump that no other lady in the competition did either.
 

Globetrotter

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Except she was posting on her instagram story of her at/going to/from practice nearly everyday after the Oscars. She had solid weeks of training. Why do people say things with no validity as if they're true? Most skaters took a few days off after the Olympics, why is it held against Mirai because she went to the Oscars instead of going home? So ridiculous. Being slammed online simply because she didn't do a jump that no other lady in the competition did either.

It doesn’t reek of desperation if you understood his history. The bottom line is Mirai’s combos in the FS were clean. They’ve been called clean all season. Shin is famous for calling jumps that no one else would call under.

If Mirai fell or popped her axels her scores would’ve been much lower. She made a pragmatic decision. If she was skating for herself, she would’ve gone for the 3As, because she wouldn’t have cared if her rank fell lower. In th beginning of the season she said she would go for the 3A in every competition because she had nothing to lose. She took them out because now she did have something to lose.

Mirai gets the raw deal. For years, people whined about her under rotations. Then they whined about her blank face. Then they complained not that she even attempted the 3A and were convinced that she couldn’t do it. Suddenly she nails it once and all her detractors want her to do it every time perfectly. Just sad.

Just two weeks ago, Rika Kihara, who landed two perfect 3As in competition at Japanese Nationals popped both of her axels in JW. It cost her any chance at a podium placement. What if she just tried one axel? With risky jumps like these there’s is always cost. Oh and Alexandra Trusova? She may have landed two quads at JW but she lost Russian Junior Nationals by falling on her 4S.

Mirai and Tom Z knew her 3A wouldn’t happen this week. Maybe it was her boots or just a bad ice, but unlike so many competitions she couldn’t land it in practice. That’s meant, that she’d fail in competition. Judges hate programs that have major falls and tank the PCS scores accordingly.

Mirai was skating for America. She tried her best to do two clean programs. Even though it was by judged Shin Amano. I hope she continues next year in spite of him. She shouldn’t let his insanity define the end of her career.

But clean in past comps don’t imply clean today. And besides, Shin Amano was equally tough on everyone. Perhaps Mirai got away in the past as the callers were not as strictly relentless as Amano? Besides when I rewatched her Olympic performance, she had a lot more snap and attack on her jumps. In contrast, just by the naked eye, I could tell that the 3T on the backend of her combo looked suspect and a strict caller like Amano carroted them. The only call I disagree was the 3Lz which was to be justifiable to be a !. Otherwise, I am all fine for a very strict tech caller as that will incentivize skaters to ensure their techniques are pristine.
 

bubblecherry

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
But clean in past comps don’t imply clean today. And besides, Shin Amano was equally tough on everyone. Perhaps Mirai got away in the past as the callers were not as strictly relentless as Amano? Besides when I rewatched her Olympic performance, she had a lot more snap and attack on her jumps. In contrast, just by the naked eye, I could tell that the 3T on the backend of her combo looked suspect and a strict caller like Amano carroted them. The only call I disagree was the 3Lz which was to be justifiable to be a !. Otherwise, I am all fine for a very strict tech caller as that will incentivize skaters to ensure their techniques are pristine.

I see 2 possible UR and the others within the 1/4 borderline zone that they're allowed to be in. The callers were definitely less strict on the last group (especially the JPN ladies) compared to the previous groups. Relative to Mirai and Mirai only, I think her rotation issues have improved this season. She's still flawed but in my opinion there's been improvement.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
US down to 2 spots

Final standings:

Bradie in 6th (7th in SP, 4th in FS)
Mirai in 10th (9th in SP, 11th in FS)
Mariah in 12th (17th in SP, 12th in FS)

Well, US ladies do not deserve a 3rd spot at this point so I'm fine with this. Maybe I just don't care any more...

Besides, the results are pre-determined.

What the heck was Ashley doing instead of being at this event? Was she injured or something?

No - after a 10(!) year competitive career, she's understandably looking to move on.

First, I have to commend Bradie. She's tougher than I thought, as a skater and as a person. She didn't let the awful way the American media threw the American ladies under the bus at the Olympics cause her to implode, although I wouldn't have faulted her if she had. I think that was part of what did Gracie in. (On a side note, I think it is totally possible to win back that third spot.)

I think the USFS has to strike the right balance between nurturing new talent and letting an emerged skater wear their success (and not use skaters the way I'm convinced they used Karen Chen, but that's a topic for another thread). I think it goes back to what happened to Kimmie Meissner. You can't expect a person to excel or deal with the setbacks of puberty if you are calling her a has-been and chasing he next big thing. This creates an atmosphere where you are afraid of being dropped at any time for any reason as soon as you don't measure up. This takes an already pressure-packed situation and creates out-and-out head cases and makes those who are already head cases worse. The fruit of that was Gracie. The one bright spot was Ashley who I think has an EXTREMELY thick skin. I WOULD SUGGEST THE USFS LEARN FROM THIER MISTAKE. You can't change the past, but you can make the future better.

It's a vicious cycle, one I see repeating itself over and over again. Frankly this was an issue even DURING the Kwan era, but US was just lucky there was enough talent/mental toughness in the pool to remain near the top.

Nice thought though...
 

Cindy1983

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Well, US ladies do not deserve a 3rd spot at this point so I'm fine with this. Maybe I just don't care any more...

Besides, the results are pre-determined.



No - after a 10(!) year competitive career, she's understandably looking to move on.



It's a vicious cycle, one I see repeating itself over and over again. Frankly this was an issue even DURING the Kwan era, but US was just lucky there was enough talent/mental toughness in the pool to remain near the top.

Nice thought though...

Kimmie was when it rose to the surface. There's a differenece between an underlying symptom/trait and it being on the surface. Now that it's on the surface they have to DEAL with it. It'll be to thier detriment if they don't.

The issue with the Americans has never been talent as there are a few that could compete with the best, but they have trouble delivering when it counts. This goes back to mental toughness an conquering nerves. The best athlete on paper doesn't always deliver. That's why I began by commending Bradie on her toughness.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Kimmie was when it rose to the surface. There's a differenece between an underlying symptom/trait and it being on the surface. Now that it's on the surface they have to DEAL with it. It'll be to thier detriment if they don't.

The issue with the Americans has never been talent as there are a few that could compete with the best, but they have trouble delivering when it counts. This goes back to mental toughness an conquering nerves. The best athlete on paper doesn't always deliver. That's why I began by commending Bradie on her toughness.

I don't disagree that this is an issue that USFS needs to (FINALLY) tackle. But I think everyone also needs to realize that it's not JUST USFS at work here - it's the press, it's the judges, it's the coaching staff, it's the TV commentators, it's the skaters themselves, and yes, it is the fans too. It's endemic in the US skating community. It's going to take a cultural shift in thinking to turn things around. Just take a look at this thread as an example

More directly within USFS' control is how they prepare skaters and structure the competitive system in the US. I'd argue that should be their priority number one.

Also, I don't think you can teach mental toughness. You either have it or you don't. The best you can do (besides physical fitness) is prepare for any scenario, in HOPES that the competition anxiety can be somewhat reduced. You hope that your skater has it, but if she doesn't...likely not much you can do as a coach.
 

Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Rooting for Ting Cui and Bradie Tennell next season for the USA. There’s no one else to get excited about. I say send Ting and bradie to high profile coaches and choreographers and have them train together. I also say stop turning champs camp into a “love thy team members” speech and an “honor the greats before us” lecture. get these skaters tough and prepared.
 

MarinHondas

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Rooting for Ting Cui and Bradie Tennell next season for the USA. There’s no one else to get excited about. I say send Ting and bradie to high profile coaches and choreographers and have them train together. I also say stop turning champs camp into a “love thy team members” speech and an “honor the greats before us” lecture. get these skaters tough and prepared.

I agree. (Although I am also excited about Alysa Liu but she's not age eligible for even JGP), Also champs camp in theory is a good idea but your'e right.
 

Cindy1983

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
I don't disagree that this is an issue that USFS needs to (FINALLY) tackle. But I think everyone also needs to realize that it's not JUST USFS at work here - it's the press, it's the judges, it's the coaching staff, it's the TV commentators, it's the skaters themselves, and yes, it is the fans too. It's endemic in the US skating community. It's going to take a cultural shift in thinking to turn things around. Just take a look at this thread as an example

More directly within USFS' control is how they prepare skaters and structure the competitive system in the US. I'd argue that should be their priority number one.

Also, I don't think you can teach mental toughness. You either have it or you don't. The best you can do (besides physical fitness) is prepare for any scenario, in HOPES that the competition anxiety can be somewhat reduced. You hope that your skater has it, but if she doesn't...likely not much you can do as a coach.

But the Federation has more contact with the skaters. They are the ones that set the tone that everyone else picks up. There needs to be an admission of the damage this tone does.

Rooting for Ting Cui and Bradie Tennell next season for the USA. There’s no one else to get excited about. I say send Ting and bradie to high profile coaches and choreographers and have them train together. I also say stop turning champs camp into a “love thy team members” speech and an “honor the greats before us” lecture. get these skaters tough and prepared.

You have to start somewhere, right.
 

bubblecherry

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
I think next season Bradie should switch up the style of her programs. I don't know her as a person but on the ice she's not graceful, delicate, fluidity, etc. as her programs call for therefore she doesn't sell it. If she did something more mature and powerful it might would work for her. Something where her stiffness would be an advantage and not a distraction.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Congratulations to Mirai :bow:, who won one of Professional Skaters Association's 2018 EDI Awards for Best Performances at the 2018 Prudential U.S. Championships in San Jose, CA.

... The award is based on the "total performance" with an eye to costuming, presentation, music selection, choreography, style, and technique. Winners were determined by a committee present at nationals that reviewed all long and short programs at the junior and senior levels for each discipline. ....

Mirai's FS won for the Ladies discipline;
Ross' FS won Men;
Madi H/Zach's FD for Ice Dance;
Tarah/Danny's FS for Pairs;
Skyliners, SC of New York, Senior FS for Synchro.

http://www.skatepsa.com/psa/Best-Performances.html
https://www.facebook.com/ProfSk8rsA...977363114767/1735691303143357/?type=3&theater (Mar 23)​

So glad that Mirai was recognized for "total performance" :yay: (and not technical ability alone).

Thanks to Mirai, Bradie, and Mariah for representing the U.S.


Also, these are her exact words from a week or two ago:
“A few months ago, I made the choice to listen to my heart and body and take an intentional period of rest away from skating, closing out this season. This time of heart healing has been essential, and not rushing the process is just as essential.”

Not criticizing Ashley, but her wording on Instagram was slightly different. Meaning this part:

... I made the choice to ... take an intentional season of rest away from skating ....

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgZcGNqgYHy/?taken-by=ashwagner2010 (Mar 16)​

To me, her Instagram sounded as if her thought was to take a break from competing in 2018-19??

But her tweet re "period" of rest does not sound like a reference to the 2018-19 season??

Will have to patiently wait to see what the upcoming months/years hold for her. I wish her the best.

Hope Ashley, Mirai, Bradie, and Karen have a great tour with SOI. :dance2:
 

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
I hope the usfsa continues to promote developed technical excellence and artistic expression - not just focus on triples and quads at a young age. For the immediate future Bradie has sound technical skills which can be greatly enhanced with the right artistic training and choreography. She seems to have a tight-knit coaching group now and I hope they are open to new ideas and opportunities for Bradie. I also agree that Ting Cui and maybe Angela Wang (if she can get her jumps in order) have potential. Alyssa Lui seems to have great potential in 2-3 years; let her keep building a strong foundation and finding her voice on the ice. I'm sure there are others but I'm of the opinion that Mirai, Polina and Courtney have had their days and will/should move on. Just an opinion. Mariah Bell is a question to me. Seems to have some potential but not seeing the results.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
For the immediate future Bradie has sound technical skills which can be greatly enhanced with the right artistic training and choreography. She seems to have a tight-knit coaching group now and I hope they are open to new ideas and opportunities for Bradie. I also agree that Ting Cui and maybe Angela Wang (if she can get her jumps in order) have potential. Alyssa Lui seems to have great potential in 2-3 years; let her keep building a strong foundation and finding her voice on the ice. I'm sure there are others but I'm of the opinion that Mirai, Polina and Courtney have had their days and will/should move on. Just an opinion. Mariah Bell is a question to me. Seems to have some potential but not seeing the results.

Sorry, but I'm afraid Angela Wang, much as I love her, fits in the same category as Mirai and Courtney (Polina's unfortunately persistent injury puts her in a slightly separate category). Angela is 21, has competed at every Senior Nationals since 2012 and has never finished higher than 7th.

Internationally, she has two gold medals to her credit: a JGP medal in 2012, and a 2017 Bavarian Open gold medal. She has been on the podium at some summer and Challenge events, including a silver last summer at the Philadelphia Intl, bronze at the 2015 US Intl FS Classic, and silver and bronze at 2014 Challenger events. But she has come up short at the bigger events: She finished 8th and 9th at her two GP events, one in 2014 and one in 2015. She was 9th at 2018 4CC.

Angela just seems to crumble when faced with serious competition---it's almost as if she doesn't believe in herself. I certainly wouldn't put her in the same category as Bradie Tennell and Ting Cui.
 
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