2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

Ic3Rabbit said:

And that's just it. They're going to send who they want.

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R.D. said:

So why have published criteria in that case?

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R.D. said:

So why have published criteria in that case?

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R.D. said:

So why have published criteria in that case?

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college pat said:

i just hope the U.S. Skaters can be better

off topic--a little in regards to current skaters.

did anyone know that michelle kwan & bob costas received a award from the U.S olympic committee endowment fund
//www.teamusa.org/News/2017/.../Dream-Team-Michelle-Kwan-Bob-Costas-Rec...
Dream Team, Michelle Kwan, Bob Costas Receive Awards From United States Olympic Endowment
BY UNITED STATES OLYMPIC COMMITTEE | DEC. 07, 2017, 4:45 P.M. (ET)

sorry about link

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Michelle Kwan was recognized with the William E. Simon Award, given to an individual or group who has made extraordinary contributions to the advancement of the Olympic and Paralympic movements.

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andromache said:

Mirai had a clean, though technically easy SP. 3T-3T, 3Lo, and 2A and a level 1 spin. Sloppy LP. Looking at the protocol, her bronze was worth about as much as Ashley's Skate Canada bronze is from this year (i.e., not much). The field at Rostelecom was weak and no one skated well.

Ashley is going into this year's Nationals with not too different of a body of work than Mirai was in 2014 - with the most impressive results being ancient history, at least insofar as the skating world goes. The major difference is that, well, 2014 US ladies had more results than the 2018 US ladies. Mirai in 2014 was going up against a JGPF finalist, a much hyped and clearly on-the-rise Gracie Gold, and two-time US champ + two-time GPF medalist. Ashley's competition in 2018....looks a lot weaker.

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andromache said:

(Plus, the hypothetical stronger skaters without Ashley's endorsements could, y'know, GET endorsements after making the Olympic team.)

Yes, there are conflicts of interest in sports where sponsors sponsor both athletes and federations. No, it's not a money-fueled conspiracy to put down good skaters and prop up bad ones.

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b-man said:

I remember 2010 nationals when Mirai made the team. She got no cover girl endorsements, no Hilton endorsements, initially she got nothing. It was announced in pre Olympic coverage that her parents couldn't go to Vancouver, too expensive, when a Japanese company at the last minute contributed enough so her parents could attend. She got none of the lucrative endorsements that Gold and Wagner got at Sochi and after.

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brightphoton said:

I remember that sad state of affairs too. At least she got that little commercial from that camera company. It was Sony, maybe?

Very much shades of Kristi Yamaguchi. She didn't get any major endorsements, even after an Olympic gold medal.

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b-man said:

Edmund's so called impressive JGPF performance was actually an unimpressive 4th place finish with a lowly 161 score, while Mirai's bronze at Rostelecom scored a 175. Not great, but more impressive than Edmunds.

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andromache said:

Making it to the JGPF is impressive on its own. (Comparing scores from junior to senior is pointless - seniors get instant PCS boosts). Polina's 4th place was to the best juniors in the world. She had a very bad SP, but was close to winning the LP with 2 3-3s, and had no URs.

The point is that Polina wasn't a complete unknown out of nowhere. She was building a reputation prior to Nationals - 2 JGP golds and a trip to the JGP final on her first ever junior season internationally - she was definitely on the rise.

Re: endorsements - did Polina get endorsements after she made the team in 2014? (I genuinely don't know - a cursory google search tells me nothing.)

I think age could have an impact on sponsorship deals. Both Polina in 2014 and Mirai in 2010 were 16. Both Gracie and Ashley in 2014 were 18+. It's possible there are certain types of legal restrictions on sponsorships for the underaged that make sponsors less likely to spend money on them, or that sponsors are just more hesitant to spend money on unknown quantities (which Mirai and Polina both were in 2010 and 2014, respectively).

ETA: (If Polina did receive any major deals, I would expect that they were shared with Ashley and Gracie - more of a "here's our 3 Olympic ladies!" thing than an individual Polina thing. Let's not forget that in 2010, Mirai was part of the two-person shame team. Shared endorsements with Rachael Flatt would necessitate reminding everyone that the glory days of the US ladies were long gone, and Mirai had not individually accomplished anything on her own just yet. I'm definitely not going to say that race doesn't play a role in who gets sponsorships and who doesn't - but I don't think that plays a role in how USFS chooses their team. USFS wants to send the best skaters, period. There might be some financial incentive to favor the girl with the sponsorship, but there's also plenty of financial incentive to favor the girl who is a better skater. Long term: better skating = better results = more $$$$.

If Ashley Wagner places outside the top 3 at Nationals this time around and is sent anyway, I'll eat my words.)

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Gullygirl84 said:

Gracie had also been to worlds by 2014 (placing 6th in 2013), whereas Mirai hadn't gone to worlds or gotten a grand prix medal yet by the time she went to the Olympics (though she had won nationals in 08').

Does Karen Chen have any endorsements this year (I know she has the book. I believe when she did her Today show appearance, they were asking her if she was "excited for her first Olympics"...)?

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college pat said:

really kristi received alot of endorsements
from kellogs, rayban, nutrasweet, clothing line,(forgot name) which went into the children dream like clothing,
book deal, a few more.

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mrrice said:

I think times have changed......Athlete aren't getting the kind of on air endorsement deals like they used to. I think Serena Williams might be the most successful female athlete right now and though she does have some TV spots, most her big deals are in Print Ads. Kristi was in several ads after she won but, nothing compares to how famous Peggy Became after she won....She was everywhere.

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brightphoton said:

I remember that sad state of affairs too. At least she got that little commercial from that camera company. It was Sony, maybe?

.

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andromache said:

Good question. Not that I can find, unfortunately, other than the book (which is a pretty good deal, I would think, since it's been awhile since a US lady has done a book - I grew up reading and rereading Tara's and Michelle's books). Considering her 4th place at Worlds, this is surprising, and probably half a race thing and half an age thing (Karen turned 18 over the summer - since then she's been a question mark, skating-wise.)

I found this article that discusses some of the complications involved in dealing with minors: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...ules-Govern-Business-With-Young-Athletes.aspx

Does anyone know if USFS has rules regarding endorsements for skaters under 18?

Nathan Chen is getting endorsements despite being newly 18 and Asian-American, but he's a medal favorite.

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frida80 said:

You know it's sad state of ladies in sports when you realize the most successful and publicized female athlete in the country hasn't competed in over a year. I'd like to suggest someone active, I can't think of anyone right now. Maybe Lindsey Vonn?

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andromache said:

Re: endorsements - did Polina get endorsements after she made the team in 2014? (I genuinely don't know - a cursory google search tells me nothing.)

I think age could have an impact on sponsorship deals. Both Polina in 2014 and Mirai in 2010 were 16. Both Gracie and Ashley in 2014 were 18+. It's possible there are certain types of legal restrictions on sponsorships for the underaged that make sponsors less likely to spend money on them, or that sponsors are just more hesitant to spend money on unknown quantities (which Mirai and Polina both were in 2010 and 2014, respectively).

ETA: (If Polina did receive any major deals, I would expect that they were shared with Ashley and Gracie - more of a "here's our 3 Olympic ladies!" thing than an individual Polina thing. Let's not forget that in 2010, Mirai was part of the two-person shame team. Shared endorsements with Rachael Flatt would necessitate reminding everyone that the glory days of the US ladies were long gone, and Mirai had not individually accomplished anything on her own just yet. I'm definitely not going to say that race doesn't play a role in who gets sponsorships and who doesn't - but I don't think that plays a role in how USFS chooses their team. USFS wants to send the best skaters, period. There might be some financial incentive to favor the girl with the sponsorship, but there's also plenty of financial incentive to favor the girl who is a better skater. Long term: better skating = better results = more $$$$.

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