2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating | Page 113 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

moonvine

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This is exactly why Daniel Samohin desperately needs a new coach. After a certain point, no one is going to flourish with their parent as a primary coach. The professionalism of someone who is so heavily personally invested in the skater can provide the best perspective.

(Seriously, Daniel Samohin is such a wasted talent at this point. Not a US man, I know, but that's what this comment has made me think of.)

Also, I hope Andrew is indeed moving to a new primary coach. I imagine the benefit to his skating will be huge in the long-term.

If Nathan wants to experiment with going to school while training, after the Olympics is the time to do it. That way he can figure out what works/doesn't work and make adjustments for the next Olympics. I wonder if he plans on relocating for an Ivy League or anything like that?

Chloe Kim's dad is her coach. I know it's a different sport.

I've never understood why such talented people want to go to college WHILE they are skating. College will be there FOREVER. I have a friend who got her PhD in her 70's. But the ability to do multiple quads in a program has to be rather short lived.
 

TontoK

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I agree; Andrew has been coached by his parents up until now, and as I understand it, they were elite skaters in Russia, but it does not mean they are the best coaches for him. I am happy he is expanding his horizons, if he is in fact expanding them.

Of course, there is always an exception to prove the rule.:) Misha Ge has been coached for most of his career by his father, Jun Ge. I see that as a special case because 1) Misha is doing what Misha does, and few elites have had his career arc and 2) Misha’s competition is “internal”; he does not have to worry about making Uzbekistan’s national team. And even Misha has spoken on the difficulty of listening to his father as a coach on the ice, and as a father off the ice. It is not an easy path.

I'm not so sure Misha is an exception, at least in terms of competitive results. This is a guy with glorious talent, and his international results never matched his potential.

I say this not to throw rocks at a skater I like very much... but to ponder what might have been. A skater with that much talent should have more to show for it (competitively) than a single GP bronze medal.

While we don't know what his competitive results would have been had his father NOT been his coach, we can say that he definitely underperformed (in my estimation) with him.
 

Tavi...

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Chloe Kim's dad is her coach. I know it's a different sport.

I've never understood why such talented people want to go to college WHILE they are skating. College will be there FOREVER. I have a friend who got her PhD in her 70's. But the ability to do multiple quads in a program has to be rather short lived.

Finances? Training is expensive. Also, the age at which you take a degree impacts your lifetime earnings potential.
 

concorde

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Finances? Training is expensive. Also, the age at which you take a degree impacts your lifetime earnings potential.

Ice skating probably will not pay the bills long term. There are exceptions (Tara, Johnny) but that is no longer the norm.
 

Tavi...

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Ice skating probably will not pay the bills long term. There are exceptions (Tara, Johnny) but that is no longer the norm.

I agree. Some people - Adam and Ashley come to mind - may be well positioned to start a media career after retiring, even without a college degree. But there’s always a risk they won’t succeed- or at least, not quickly - and they may struggle financially for years.

Skaters without degrees who don’t have those opportunities, who aren’t invited to skate in Japanese ice shows, and who don’t want to coach or skate on cruise ships, may be in a difficult position when they leave the sport. If their families are financially comfortable, they may be able to take some time to figure out what they want to do next and/or go to school full time - if they’re really lucky, they can go to school without taking on any debt. Others may have to start working in any job they can get, and eventually go to school part time - or full time taking on high levels of debt.

In either situation, there’s a financial cost to the delay. You simply have fewer years to earn, and your salary may well lag behind those of your peers. For some people - those who make it to the elite level - the opportunity costs of skating full time may be well worth it. For others who are less successful, it may not be.
 

moonvine

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Ice skating probably will not pay the bills long term. There are exceptions (Tara, Johnny) but that is no longer the norm.

Not everyone may want to coach, but I promise coaching pays more than I make, and I have a Master's degree.
 

moonvine

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I agree. Some people - Adam and Ashley come to mind - may be well positioned to start a media career after retiring, even without a college degree. But there’s always a risk they won’t succeed- or at least, not quickly - and they may struggle financially for years.

Skaters without degrees who don’t have those opportunities, who aren’t invited to skate in Japanese ice shows, and who don’t want to coach or skate on cruise ships, may be in a difficult position when they leave the sport. If their families are financially comfortable, they may be able to take some time to figure out what they want to do next and/or go to school full time - if they’re really lucky, they can go to school without taking on any debt. Others may have to start working in any job they can get, and eventually go to school part time - or full time taking on high levels of debt.

In either situation, there’s a financial cost to the delay. You simply have fewer years to earn, and your salary may well lag behind those of your peers. For some people - those who make it to the elite level - the opportunity costs of skating full time may be well worth it. For others who are less successful, it may not be.

I was thinking of Nathan, who is a World Champion with many sponsors, and other elite skaters. Also, unless a person is going to get a degree in STEM or some other high earning field, I personally would tell them to think seriously about whether they need a degree at all. I have a degree in English that isn't worth the paper it is printed on.
 

karne

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Not everyone may want to coach, but I promise coaching pays more than I make, and I have a Master's degree.

I disagree. Maybe the very top coaches earn more than someone like Max, who is looking to get into the very highly-paid financial sector; but there's no guarantee a top skater will become a top coach. Coaching is only a full time job at the very top level.

A degree in English is not a useful degree. But of the skaters who are at/have graduated from/are planning to attend college among the US men, most of them are doing or planning extremely useful degrees: Max did his Bachelor of Science with a major in Finance, Nathan wants to go into medicine, etc.

These are highly motivated, very driven people with strong self-discipline. I am sure all of them are choosing their degrees with a fixed plan in mind for where they want to go. They know skating won't last forever.
 

Tavi...

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I was thinking of Nathan, who is a World Champion with many sponsors, and other elite skaters. Also, unless a person is going to get a degree in STEM or some other high earning field, I personally would tell them to think seriously about whether they need a degree at all. I have a degree in English that isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

But Nathan is more the exception than the rule, because (1) he’s only 18; (2) he’s reached the top of the heap quickly; (3) his sponsorships may pay him extremely well; (4) he’s already been invited to participate in well-paying ice shows in Japan; and (5) he seemingly already knows what he wants to study (medicine, I think but not sure). Given his accomplishments, I doubt he’ll have trouble getting accepted at a top tier school, and that, together with his higher than average earnings as a skater, would certainly minimize the opportunity costs of delaying his education. Still, if he is in fact aiming to be a doctor, he’s got many years of school ahead of him, so that (and the desire to learn something new) might factor into his decision.

But the truth is, there are only a few people in Nathan’s position, and at least one of them - Hanyu - is in fact enrolled at (or he may have already graduated from?) a top Japanese university. For most of the other elite US kids - and I would include Max Aaron in that category - it’s far less easy, even if their family is well off. I totally admire Max for maintaining such a high level as an athlete while studying finance full time. His choice may have affected his results to some degree - but it was his choice.

By the way, OT and all, but I think the problem with English degrees is most often that people who have them (which includes me) don’t always know what they want to do with them. I think how well someone does depends in part on what school granted that degree, what else is on the person’s resume, and his or her innate drive and determination. An English graduate from Columbia or Harvard may be hired in an entry level investment banking position; someone from a state university may have a much harder time even getting an interview for a job like that, even if they graduated at the top of their class. But in my personal experience, there’s usually a way to get to where you want to go, even if it’s more circuitous and time consuming than you’d like. :)
 

karne

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By the way, OT and all, but I think the problem with English degrees is most often that people who have them (which includes me) don’t always know what they want to do with them. I think how well someone does depends in part on what school granted that degree, what else is on the person’s resume, and his or her innate drive and determination.

Bingo!!! And we are talking about elite athletes, who by their very nature are incredibly driven, ambitious, and goal-oriented.

Continuing with Max as an example, he actually started college late (22-23), but when he did, it was because he knew exactly what he wanted to do; there are interviews as early as late 2014-2015 where he talks about his post-skating plans, which included working in the financial sector.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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@ice coverage
just wanna say I love your new avatar picture:luv17::love:

Thx, yyyskate.

As a diehard Max fan, I am extra happy :hap93: today b/c in a season-ender blog post, the wise Phil Hersh :bow: gave "big props to Max Aaron."

Referring to Max and the three spots for next year, Phil wrote:

... he can take great pride in having used his fourth world meet appearance to help enhance the near future of U.S. men’s skating on the world scene. That is a fitting valedictory for one of the nicest and most accommodating people in the sport.

I posted a longer excerpt in Max's fan thread, but wanted to make at least brief mention here as well. :yay:


Ice skating probably will not pay the bills long term. There are exceptions (Tara, Johnny) but that is no longer the norm.

Bingo!!! And we are talking about elite athletes, who by their very nature are incredibly driven, ambitious, and goal-oriented. ...

Plus not everyone who loved having a competitive career would want to make figure skating their lifelong livelihood, even if it were financially feasible.

I have nothing but respect for those who have big goals outside of skating -- Nathan in medicine, Max in business, etc.
 

moonvine

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I disagree. Maybe the very top coaches earn more than someone like Max, who is looking to get into the very highly-paid financial sector; but there's no guarantee a top skater will become a top coach. Coaching is only a full time job at the very top level.

Gracie Gold claims to coach 8-12 hours per day. That seems pretty full time to me.
 

Tyranid

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Here's a rather interesting Rolling Stone article on Adam Rippon:

https://www.rollingstone.com/sports...on-goals-after-olympic-figure-skating-w518429

Taking on political bullies, though, is not a decision he regrets. "As an athlete, you're threatened that if you do anything to bring shame to your country, you'll be kicked off the team and you won't be allowed back at an international event. I see somebody like Donald Trump taunting immigrants, taunting a handicapped reporter, the things that he's said about women—and I'm like, if he were me, he'd be kicked off the team, and I'd never hear from him again."
LMAO :rofl:

So he has dated girls... who assumed he was just too good a person to try to sleep with them. :biggrin:
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Josh Farris :luv17: has completed choreography for Vincent Zhou's new exhibition program. :dance2:

Vincent posted a great photo of their side-by-side splits. Excerpt of his comments:

Josh Farris and I are so excited to have finished my "Take On Me" exhibition program!! Massive thanks @joshdfarris for helping me expand my horizons and truly have fun while skating! I'm looking forward to performing at a club show in San Francisco this weekend, Ice Fantasia in Korea, and finally, as a guest on @starsonice ....

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhMgi8MFIlW/?taken-by=govincentzhou (Apr 5)​


ETA:

The local ice show in SF seems to be San Francisco Skating Club's gala on Apr 7.

Incredible cast: Vincent, Dinh Tran, Feng/Nyman, Carriera/Ponomarenko, Alysa Liu, etc.

We are honoring the 30th year of Brian Boitano’s Olympic Gold Medal, and he will be the guest of honor. We also are honoring the 20th anniversary of Brian’s Youth Skate Foundation and the 20th anniversary of the Yerba Buena Ice Skating & Bowling Center and its partnership with the SCSF. Charlie Tickner, Olympic and World medalist will be the Master of Ceremonies for the evening.

http://scsf.org/annual-gala/

Some of the cast members are quite active on social media, so I have my fingers crossed that snippets of performances will surface. :pray:
(And/or maybe Tom Z -- who idolized Tickner -- will attend and could be another source??)​


ETA (on Apr 7):

Fan art from @miyan5605 in honor of Vincent's new ex:


(Same artist is the source of my current avatar of Max:

 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Fan-cam video of Vincent performing Josh's choreo at the SF show:


(Only the first part of the program, but better than nothing. :)

I could really feel Josh coming thru in some of the movement. :ghug:)


ETA:

See also video mini-snippets from Instagram story of @christinacarriera. One of V's training/rehearsal; a later one of V's performance at the show.​


ETA:

For anyone who cares, reminder that the NBC recap of Worlds finally is airing today (Sun Apr 8).
3 to 6 pm ET -- check your local listings.

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/03/16/figure-skating-worlds-broadcast-schedule/
 
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