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Thread: Cut down on long program jumping passes

  1. #61
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Exactly. I'm a huge fan of technical advancement in our sport. I love me some quads.

    But, I think the jumps should be executed properly. There is some awful jumping technique on display recently.

    And while I've been focused on take-off and landing edges/vaults, huge problems exist in under-rotated jumps and pre-rotations. Given that the callers have access to slow-motion instant replay, there is simply no excuse for it.

    And I don't have a problem in giving callers like Shin Amano that kind of authority.

    US Nationals have become a judging joke, and the problem has become widespread internationally.
    I'm inclined to agree, though I'm far from being a technical expert. However, I'm wondering if there is still some way to push the technical aspect without adding rotations to jumps. I will freely admit that I can't count rotations. It goes by too fast for me, so triples and quad look the same. I completely relied on commentators or the slow motion replay to know what was done. So, while I can get excited about quads, the idea of quints just makes me think "Why?" The risk/reward balance just doesn't seem worth it. Footwork seems like the only place where there could be some push forward. Perhaps encouraging more speed? Or something more intricate? Or even adding to the jumps in terms of what is done going into to them or just after? And all of that only added to the idea that the proper edges and rotations for jumps really needs to be there and needs to be enforced. If for now the tech push is all about jump rotations, are you really growing the sport if you are actually under-rotating or pre-rotating? Or are you just cheating?

  2. #62
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003

    3 Not allowed!
    Clearly there's still some room for a subset of top male jumpers to start including 4-5 different quads in their program (we've already gotten a couple of them attempting that), and for a subset of female jumpers to include triple axels and/or an easier quad or two.

    But even most good jumpers will not be able to achieve the maximum that the most jump-talented subset will be able to.
    Let alone most good skaters.

    So where can more difficulty come from, for those who cannot add more revolutions in the air?

    *More difficult combinations of jumps, e.g., 3-3-3 combos, loop combos, 4T at the end of a combination, half loop-4S at the end of a combination
    *Multirevolution jumps landing on the back inside edge into 3S or 3F
    *Jumping in both directions
    *Multiple revolutions from currently unlisted takeoffs, such as walley and inside axel
    *More difficult steps/skating movements directly into and out of jumps
    *Jump sequences with one or two difficult turns or steps between jumps
    *Jumps directly into or out of spins
    *More difficult in-air position variations
    *Backloading (already rewarded; just a few skaters have so far taken full advantage)

    And how can rules be adjusted to appropriately reward each kind of added difficulty, to encourage skaters to develop skills in all these areas rather than just chasing more revolutions? And also to reward the more revolutions for those skaters who can achieve them.

    If something is really difficult or risky, skaters won't bother to learn that skill unless the potential rewards in base value and GOE outweigh the risks. Some of the skills in my list above currently earn no extra points, while carrying high likelihood of failure or negative GOE, so they're not worth learning in the current environment. If rules change to reward them, we'll suddenly see much more of them.

    E.g., look at how many more 3-half loop-3S or 3F combos we've been seeing since that option was changed to a combination with full base value for all three jumps as opposed to a sequence with only 80% value of the two hardest jumps.

    If something adds only a small amount of extra difficulty or risk but earns the same reward as more difficult/risky skills, the easy skills will become common and the riskier alternatives will remain unmastered. E.g., rewards for air position variations should allow the option of higher rewards for harder variations; same for difficult entries/exits.

  3. #63
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    2 Not allowed!
    The main beneficiaries of the new rules are those skinny jumping beans with stamina issue with the current format. They will be able to jumps their hearts out. Pile on the quads!

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