Will the 2018 Olympics be cancelled?

Ic3Rabbit said:

You've got to realize that you're comparing apples to oranges here. Sochi wasn't even built when they were chosen in 2007 and they still weren't ready when the athletes arrived. Vancouver on the other hand is already in existence and had a games within the last 8 years so it's wholly possible.

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Could maybe slap something together as far as venues but housing the athletes will be hard. Vancouver is going through a housing crisis at the moment and it would look very bad politically for the NDP government of BC to be able to pull off housing athletes when there are so many homeless and, I believe the term is, underhoused in greater Vancouver.

the other major issue will be security. The cost for trying to keep the games secure will be huge as it will be target for terrorist yahoos.


By the by, because I'm still heavy into Game of thrones headspace at the moment every time I see NK I think Night's King (or Night King or the 13th commander of the Night's Watch for book readers)

ancientpeas said:

Y'all know what kind of competition this is and it has to do with measuring and appendages. In the end I think this will only be resolved if China and Russia spearhead a resolution. NK and the USA are so far apart that it will take global pressure to resolve it.

And I'm in the camp of if this does escalate to actual warfare the Olympic will be the least of our worries.

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First of all nobody in this world cares about any kind of resolutions. NK probably cares the least.
Second: I seriously doubt 2018 WOG will be cancelled. Behind every olympic games is enormous amount of money. Terrorist attack (Munich) and boycott (1976, 1980, 1984) weren't enough to cut the show and global conflict (IIWW) was necessary to cancel the games.
Third: I heard it before "They will cancel Sochi due to Russian politics", "They will cancel Rio due to lack of preparation and safety", "They will cancel Football World Cup in Brazil because nothing is ready!". All these events were hold successfully.

I'm more worried about financial success of Games. I read reports that actually small amount of tickets was sold compared to Vancouver and Sochi

ejnsofi said:

First of all nobody in this world cares about any kind of resolutions. NK probably cares the least.
Second: I seriously doubt 2018 WOG will be cancelled. Behind every olympic games is enormous amount of money. Terrorist attack (Munich) and boycott (1976, 1980, 1984) weren't enough to cut the show and global conflict (IIWW) was necessary to cancel the games.
Third: I heard it before "They will cancel Sochi due to Russian politics", "They will cancel Rio due to lack of preparation and safety", "They will cancel Football World Cup in Brazil because nothing is ready!". All these events were hold successfully.

I'm more worried about financial success of Games. I read reports that actually small amount of tickets was sold compared to Vancouver and Sochi

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This is where I see the biggest problem for the hosts. Even if the games are not cancelled, that doesn't guarantee that Athlete's will show up. Even worse for the hosts. It doesn't guarantee that people will risk flying to Korea. We have seen passenger flight's bombed out of the sky recently and I imagine there will be people who won't make the trip. It frightens me that Kim Jong will use the Olympics to make a "statement" to the rest of the World. If he were to disrupt the games in any way, he could use it as a political ploy.

I hate thinking about it. I'm watching the news right now and Kim Jong Un has stated that he has a missile that can hit the mainland of the US.

Violet Bliss said:

That's because US has been aggressive for almost 70 years, and has been targeting NK openly in recent years. That's why NK has been posturing against the US and its nearby allies if US were to start a war. It has not said anything against the SK. Moon of SK wants to negotiate but is dismissed scornfully by Trump. In fact, the US has consistently refused to talk with NK even when both have representatives at the same events. BTW, the US has turned down the Taliban surrender twice. As much as Afghanistan is the Graveyard of Empires, bringing down Great Britain and Russia before, US wants to stay there permanently for its strategic location, hoping it might be able to interfere with the One Belt One Road development initiated by China to bypass US Navy in international trades.

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Enough of your propaganda. NK crossed the 38th parallel and invaded the south starting the Korean war.

Ic3Rabbit said:

There's also this place called Vancouver that hosted a pretty amazing Winter Olympics almost 8 years ago.

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But one of the facilities (curling?) was re-purposed/re-developed as a swimming pool and Community Centre. I believe that was planned from the very beginning.

Also, housing is extremely tight in Vancouver.

Edited to add: the curling rink was not actually turned into a swimming pool. "The curling arena is being ripped out and in its place will rise a community centre, rink, library, fitness centre, games room, childcare facilities, curling club etc.". The aquatic centre is in a separate building next door. Still, major changes were made that would require major time and money to un-do.

NanaPat said:

But one of the facilities (curling?) was re-purposed/re-developed as a swimming pool and Community Centre. I believe that was planned from the very beginning.

Also, housing is extremely tight in Vancouver.

Edited to add: the curling rink was not actually turned into a swimming pool. "The curling arena is being ripped out and in its place will rise a community centre, rink, library, fitness centre, games room, childcare facilities, curling club etc.". The aquatic centre is in a separate building next door. Still, major changes were made that would require major time and money to un-do.

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Well, a curling site could conceivably be made quite quickly. I've seen a basketball floor turned into an ice Rink when Stars On Ice came to town.

mrrice said:

Well, a curling site could conceivably be made quite quickly. I've seen a basketball floor turned into an ice Rink when Stars On Ice came to town.

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Yes, assuming you already have a building with a big enough flat floor. But it must have been huge, considering all the things that were accommodated in the building. If push came to shove, it would probably make more sense to just build a new temporary building for the curling than to re-convert the community centre.

NanaPat said:

Yes, assuming you already have a building with a big enough flat floor. But it must have been huge, considering all the things that were accommodated in the building. If push came to shove, it would probably make more sense to just build a new temporary building for the curling than to re-convert the community centre.

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Yes, the SaveMart Center is a huge arena that hosts Concerts, Basketball Games, as well as Hockey Games. The stands can actually be moved to accommodate the different activities that take place there. Here's the Center hosting a "Monster Jam" truck race. It's a giant venue:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnKj1n7sMqk

While it's not great that NK has nukes and missiles, it's not the harbinger of the apocalypse. Dictators are motivated by their own survival- Kim saw what happened to Gaddafi and is making sure the world knows they can't do the same thing to him. He's not going to start a war that he will absolutely lose unless he thinks it's truly the end for him and wants to go out in a blaze of glory. The wildcard here is that we (the US) have a president who has almost no understanding of international politics... or diplomacy... and keeps 'taking the bait'. But I'm not worried- with Bannon out, I trust Mattis and Kelly to get Trump in hand. I think NK will lob a few more bombs into the sea and retreat back into their corner satisfied that the world is taking them 'seriously'

lappo said:

I SO agree with you. I lived in Athens for two years and the Olympics were one of the main reasons (even though not the only one) for the major crisis that hit the country (and that is still very present). I know this will never happen but I would really be glad if the IOC would find two places for the Olympic Games (one for summer and one for winter) and stick to it. In recent years hosting Olympic Games has provided more burden than gain to the citizens of the host country, not to mention all the abandoned facilities. I would totally be for "less fancy more useful" policy and build structures that can be easily repurposed in something useful for the whole population. I could make several examples of bad administration and lack of perspective in my country but it would be boring.

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This! I've been telling people this for years! And maybe have a lottery to let different countries "host" the games each year- design the opening and closing ceremonies, decorate the venues, sell souvenirs, etc. Because I love the games, but I hate the drama in the lead up.

I've been thinking of this very topic seriously for a number of weeks and wondered when "the elephant on the ice" would finally be discussed.

The Olympics will not be relocated. An impossibility at this late stage.

I think the IOC should carefully consider options moving forward. Either having a permanent home for the Summer and Winter games, or, as has also been mentioned previously, go into negotiations with the idea that any given city would host twice... for instance (hypothetically, of course) Tokyo hosts in 2022 and 2030, Vancouver hosts in 2026 and 2034. The current model isn't working. Many cities have been choked with Olympic debt. It's become harder and harder to even get cities to bid.

I would be devastated if the SK games were cancelled. But it is not wholly unrealistic to consider that they might be.

waxel said:

The current model isn't working. Many cities have been choked with Olympic debt. It's become harder and harder to even get cities to bid.

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And when cities do win, it's because of things like this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-o...n-bribe-to-buy-rio-games-police-idUSKCN1BG1HV

drivingmissdaisy said:

And when cities do win, it's because of things like this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-o...n-bribe-to-buy-rio-games-police-idUSKCN1BG1HV

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I don't know other cities, but about Rio, yes, definitely bought. It was pure corruption. I'm from Rio and I can affirm that hosting an OG was nonsense.

I too wish IOC had other method. But it's too lucrative the way it is.

I hope SK can have their Olympic in peace though.

Sent from my Moto G using Golden Skate mobile app

NanaPat said:

Yes, assuming you already have a building with a big enough flat floor. But it must have been huge, considering all the things that were accommodated in the building. If push came to shove, it would probably make more sense to just build a new temporary building for the curling than to re-convert the community centre.

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You're worried about Canada being able to find a curling rink that could be used! You do understand how enormously popular curling is in Canada right? If any country would be able to take whatever space is available and make good curling ice, it's Canada. All the methods for making curling ice were invented in Canada.

bevybean said:

You're worried about Canada being able to find a curling rink that could be used! You do understand how enormously popular curling is in Canada right? If any country would be able to take whatever space is available and make good curling ice, it's Canada. All the methods for making curling ice were invented in Canada.

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Canada even knows how to make curling fun........The Rick Mercer Report....Featuring Jann Arden, Kyle Shewfelt, and Mayor Nenshi...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyc4d3l84yY

ruffledgrouse;1770595]While it's not great that NK has nukes and missiles, it's not the harbinger of the apocalypse. Dictators are motivated by their own survival- Kim saw what happened to Gaddafi and is making sure the world knows they can't do the same thing to him. He's not going to start a war that he will absolutely lose unless he thinks it's truly the end for him and wants to go out in a blaze of glory. The wildcard here is that we (the US) have a president who has almost no understanding of international politics... or diplomacy... and keeps 'taking the bait'. But I'm not worried- with Bannon out, I trust Mattis and Kelly to get Trump in hand. I think NK will lob a few more bombs into the sea and retreat back into their corner satisfied that the world is taking them 'seriously'

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I hope you are right. Not sure though e.g nobody took Hitler seriously to start with and we all know how that ended. While the dictators do want to survive they don't mind bringing the rest of the world down without second thought ...

mrrice said:

Canada even knows how to make curling fun........The Rick Mercer Report....Featuring Jann Arden, Kyle Shewfelt, and Mayor Nenshi...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyc4d3l84yY

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Canada rocks!

I didn't know Calcary has a mayor almost as funny as Jann. All good sport. :agree:

Just move them to Sochi. Everything is still there and they are ready.

Tutto said:

I hope you are right. Not sure though e.g nobody took Hitler seriously to start with and we all know how that ended. While the dictators do want to survive they don't mind bringing the rest of the world down without second thought ...

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Hitler was democratically elected and a very popular and supported leader of Germany. A decorated WWI hero, he had credit in the economic recovery of Germany and he was offensive towards groups and nations. He committed suicide with his bride to avoid capture by the Soviet Red Army. Kim took over a family dynasty, oversees national poverty but is in a defensive position with overwhelming outside power threatening his demise. He has never attacked another country but would do a lot of damage to the enemy and the world if pushed to face death. All very much in contrast.

Despite the automatic association of peace and prosperity with democracy and capitalism, the most devastating wars, WWI and WWII were initiated and fought among democratic nations.

Violet Bliss said:

Hitler was democratically elected and a very popular and supported leader of Germany. A decorated WWI hero, he had credit in the economic recovery of Germany and he was offensive towards groups and nations. He committed suicide with his bride to avoid capture by the Soviet Red Army. Kim took over a family dynasty, oversees national poverty but is in a defensive position with overwhelming outside power threatening his demise. He has never attacked another country but would do a lot of damage to the enemy and the world if pushed to face death. All very much in contrast.

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Whoa....there is some serious revisionist "history" going on here.

Yes, Hitler technically came into power through democratic means. But describing him as "very popular and supported" is a bit of an exaggeration--note that the only time Hitler ran for President of Weimar Germany in 1932, he lost significantly by 16% of the vote. Moreover, Hitler was only able to come into power in the German legislative elections through coalitions with other parties--the Nazi Party never won more than 37% of the vote at its peak, which was far from a majority and wasn't enough to govern in the Reichstag without help from other political parties.

Violet Bliss said:

Despite the automatic association of peace and prosperity with democracy and capitalism, the most devastating wars, WWI and WWII were initiated and fought among democratic nations.

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Again, this is highly misleading. Nazi Germany, by the time WWII came around, could no longer be considered a democracy in any sense of the term. The Reichstag Fire Decree (basically suspending all civil liberties and protections) and the Enabling Act of 1933 (allowing Hitler to unilaterally seize the power of the legislature and personally enact laws) thoroughly turned Nazi Germany into a one-party totalitarian state. Sure, Hitler seemed "very popular and supported" for awhile, but that's because he had the power to crush all opposition, censor the press, suspend all elections, and imprison/murder anyone he wanted.

And let's compare the other main belligerents of WWII:

UK (democracy), USA (democracy), USSR (totalitarian communist state) vs. Nazi Germany (totalitarian state), Empire of Japan (military dictatorship under Imperial authority), Italy (fascist totalitarian state).

What about the main belligerents of WWI?

UK (democracy-ish); French Third Republic (republican parliamentary democracy), Imperial Russia (absolute monarchy under the Tsar), USA (democracy) vs. German Empire (technically a federal constitutional monarchy but with no real voting franchise and dominated by the Kaiser; was run like a military dictatorship during WWI), Austria-Hungary (absolute monarchy), Ottoman Empire (absolute monarchy)

It is a huge exaggeration to pretend that WWI and WWII were "initiated and fought among democratic nations" when the democracies were all on one side fighting together during both wars.

evangeline, I was going through the differences between Hitler and Kim as brought up as representatives of dictators. Hitler did turn into a dictator but he came to the power of a large strong nation through democratic support and was very popular with his successful economic management. Kim inherited a tiny extremely poor and isolated country facing constant military threat. It has no power to start an actual war. Even with the nuclear weapons, it would be wiped out in no time at all in a real war with the world's super power.

History and all the labels aside, power and greed corrupt all systems.

Time has changed. The US never really had to defend itself, what with Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, and oceans on two coasts. With more guns than can be counted in private hands, nobody could possibly take over this country by force. Yet today, despite its gianormous "defense" budget and military might, the US is rather unprepared in the actual defense of itself in a modern warfare, on the EMP front, in defending the satellites that run military actions, in computer hacking, and in financial wars, any of which could cripple the most powerful nation on earth. The greatest threat to the US this week is not NK, but the China-Russia's agreement to drop the petrodollar for which US has gone to war against various regimes who even dared to think about dealing without the US$ for oil and in international trades.

Maybe the US needs to devote more of its attention and resources to actually defend itself and to promote the quality of life of its people. Best to leave NK alone.

Let nations compete in sports instead of wars. Here is to the 2018 Olympics in peace.