2017 CS Lombardia Trophy Ladies SP | Page 21 | Golden Skate

2017 CS Lombardia Trophy Ladies SP

lanark

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
My thoughts about the top ladies:

Wakaba: I didn't like the music, but she was selling and I bought it.
I loved the step sequence and her spins........ oh, her spins! So good! And the jumps were there, so... :luv17:

Alina: First of all, please, can she change that dress? :palmf:
She totally did not skate to her full potential, but when she does(and I hope she will, season is just begining) she will own that program and make it amazing! She's just missing the necessary musicality and the feeling, but she will develop it, there's time! :pray:

Kostner: same thing as Wakaba, I don't like the music choice but her interpretation was perfect, as usual, so... :love: She had very nice jumps, no falling. But she's not the most consistent so I'm already expecting a mistake at the LP. :laugh: I hope I'm wrong though. :points:

Overall, I thought the results were correct. Of course there's the overscore madness that I'm just sick of... :dbana:
I'm already seeing the insane Olympic records they will distribute for no reason, but... what can we do right?

:cheer:


Ooh, just found Carolina in the Smileys:

:drama:

ne me quitte pas
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Are you just trying to invite criticism of Kaetlyn? You know the second she falls you are stirring up a bunch of drama that's going to follow back to Kaetlyn and all of her flaws too. You even went after the dress...#harsh

Sam, the dress was the least of the problems today. However, you may wish to review this Thread thoroughly, as many felt the outfit was a bit distracting and unfortunately, did not do her or the program, justice...#reality
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Jason Brown snagged a photo with her.
https://instagram.com/p/BY6u5qKgWG1/

Your turn to find a photo of her. :)

Jason just didn't "snag" a photo; Laurine trains at 7k now. :)

Another selfie of Team7k at the Lombardia comp:

Here is a photo taken of Laurine at practice at 7k. I think this is a lovely photo :

I didn't see Laurine skate, but I would love to know if she has a Rohene program (I believe Yoonmi Lehmann, also in the team photo, does). Did it look like a Rohene program to anybody?
 

lanark

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
She skated like a junior, attempting to be in the Big Leagues, but looked like a junior to me. Slow, off the music, full of fear and doubt, unsteady and not understanding or into her music, a dress that, well...we hear she's getting a new one, enough said. Triples alone, are not enough.

I sort of agree with you...

She did looked afraid and insecure, but I think everyone has bad days. Maybe it was hers.
We've seen her skate way better than that, so it's not like she doesn't know what she's doing. She will evolve during the season and hopefully grab her spot in team Russia. ^^

And the dress... I don't know who thought that dress was a good idea... LOL

Also, everytime I see a skater with tights half over boots I die a little inside. :drama:
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Jason just didn't "snag" a photo; Laurine trains at 7k now. :)

Another selfie of Team7k at the Lombardia comp:

Here is a photo taken of Laurine at practice at 7k. I think this is a lovely photo :

I didn't see Laurine skate, but I would love to know if she has a Rohene program (I believe Yoonmi Lehmann, also in the team photo, does). Did it look like a Rohene program to anybody?

I don't think anyone knew what she was skating before she took the ice :laugh: I also didn't hear the choreographer announced so I can't be certain but the program is great. She had jumping issues but so many good qualities.

I had no idea she was at 7k because info on the girl is like non existent. BTW...I love that she has Instagram but zero posts. Lol....she's the bomb and then some.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
You're joking, right? :dev2:
If not, then you should educate yourself on what the ISU considers to be good transitions (you can find a video on youtube where the ISU is using Carolina as an example for body movement transitions). Then you can decide whether you agree with the ISU or not.
My opinion is that f.e. Alina's body movement transitions aren't that good, can't be that good because she's lacking skating skills. You just can't do certain things of you don't have full control, balance and good glide. That's why she isn't holding positions and swinging with her free leg to gain speed. And she's getting good points for her jumps in/out transitions - that's boosting her technical score already. But when you look at the PCS, the judges also have to judge the quality of those transitions and the quality very often just isn't good.

By the way - the in/out of the 2A that Carolina did was quite the nicest in/out of a 2A she ever did. I liked that a lot. https://youtu.be/moWaaipN-ms?t=95

Thank you for the tip, educated enough. The thing about transitions is that she has close to none transitions in her program. Very empty and very outdated.

Also, as we are in the field of our opinions, I think that a lady that doesnt even try a 3-3 in her SP should not be on the podium in any isu competition.
 

kevinVchicago

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
I don't think anyone knew what she was skating before she took the ice [emoji23] I also didn't hear the choreographer announced so I can't be certain but the program is great. She had jumping issues but so many good qualities.

I had no idea she was at 7k because info on the girl is like non existent. BTW...I love that she has Instagram but zero posts. Lol....she's the bomb and then some.
I had no idea she was training in the US now. Did she change coaches?

I think the program is beautiful, and I'm trying to get used to it. But, I am disappointed because it doesn't even come close to the beauty of her SP last year. I wish she would have picked something just as innovative I guess. I don't know if it shows her off well enough and the costume is so drab-colored, although it's memorable. I don't know what to think about the single leg.

Still, I'm excited to see what she does in the FS and I love her so much. <3
 

friedbanana

End Turandot!
Final Flight
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Some interesting camerawork here...:biggrin: Thoughts on the top three:

Wakaba: I really enjoyed the program! Good start to the season. It's an interesting style for her, and she makes it work. Her fabulous skating skills don't hurt either. Definitely my highlight of the competition so far.

Carolina: I'm sort of meh on the program; it was pretty but bland for me. Not much to say other than that, but I do enjoy the music selection!

Alina: I like the tutu, but the same issues I had with her programs last season are still there. She has loads of transitions, but I feel like she's rushing from one element to another. I also wish she would hold her lines. I will say, however, that I enjoy this SP much more than her one from last season. The entrance into the 2A is also pretty cool; hope she gets it clean next time!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
She fell so what? Caro fell in Saitamo and in addition to that did 3 pops and still received higher pcs than winning Mao. Well, a bad example. We all know it was a scandal.

But I will insist on the worlds argument - they were the most serious competitions last season. The worlds is not a show with ridiculous scores to make Japan win which WTT is. Both Alina and Wakaba were clean in the worlds - both got 29. Now Alina has +2 with a fall but with a senior bump and Wakaba has +4 - with just a bump.

I understand we differ on that and won't change the views so that I see no point to continue. Better see what FS will bring.

But if you get why Saitama was a scandal (and I agree) then surely you wouldn't be so flippant about a fall here?

Are we really at a point where we are like, "The skater committed a major error - a fall, on 1 of the 3 jumping passes. So what?"?! How many *falls* should skaters be permitted before we can start acknowledging that they compromise the overall program?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
2A with all the steps before that Alina did is the hardest element.

If you fall on the element it shouldn't matter how many steps you do into it. The ultimate key aspect of a clean jump is the landing (and yes, rotation too,obviously) If you fall on a jump, even if fully rotated, it is NOT a successful jumping pass. Or at least in my opinion. Some people seem to think it's not a big deal for a skater to fall on an element if all other aspects are above average. I guess we don't really care about clean landings anymore?!
 

solani

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Country
Austria
Thank you for the tip, educated enough. The thing about transitions is that she has close to none transitions in her program. Very empty and very outdated.

Also, as we are in the field of our opinions, I think that a lady that doesnt even try a 3-3 in her SP should not be on the podium in any isu competition.
Have you actually watched Carolina's program? She might not do the sheer number of trasnitions that someone like Alina does, but the quality and variety of her transitions is superior. You don't need to do the same thing over and over again. Done once with excellence is enough.

And, because I'm still not entirely sure we're speaking of the same thing when we talk about transitions:
http://www.iceskatingresources.org/transitions.html
All combinations of turns and steps that are in character with the music such as arm/leg and edge movements, inside and outside spread eagles, pivots, bauers, and lunges, plus unlisted jumps such as splits and stags, etc.

So, just for once look at Carolina's whole body when she's skating, she's moving all the time. Then watch Alina, with her rather stiff upper body. And when is she ever gliding? I see her gliding one time in her SP, when she's doing the Charlotte spiral and that glide is bumpy. Therefore - quality of execution of transitions - mediocre. And I'm not even talking about her extensions.
Skating is not about doing frantic steps all the time - skating is about gliding, holding an edge. It should look smooth.

But yes, maybe I have a dated view of how figure skating should look like. Maybe nowadays the ice is only needed for jumps and spins and a great skater only needs to frantically hop around from bland edge to bland edge. And I don't say that Alina hasn't got potential, she has great potential. She could become a great skater. It's just not there yet. And, as I mentioned before, I get why they don't want to develop that aspect of her skating in the Olympic season, also because she gets rather high scores anyway. But really, no one should wonder why there has to be a rather huge PCS gap between Alina and someone like Carolina.
 

IlVoloFan

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Country
Turkey
Alina couldn't be compared with Carolina in the PCS part. Alina is just a child when Carolina makes true art on the ice. I love Alina, technically she's so strong and amazing but artistically in my book I can give more points than this to Caro tbh.

Alina's 31 PCS is ok with the mistake on the 2A, transitions in her program is extremely hard, when she is clean she scores huge and I appreciate this, but Caro's 36+ PCS is well-deserved and when Caro is clean with 3F+3T she is going to score 76-77+ imo.

Also, Alina has to get rid of her entry to the 2A if it won't work in the other competitions. Last years' entry is great for her, they don't need to mess it up.
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
I think Alina is a talented skater with potential for greatness. But right now she's not there. Yet her scores pretend she is. I like Black Swan but it didn't feel like Black Swan at all. All of her movements look extremely difficult and exhausting - and - completely unfinished. It's hectic there is no breathing room, no room for interpretation, for gliding...it's weird, she has a fragile, bird-like quality, is quite a beauty but her skating makes me think "jackhammer", not "swan". Weird.
 

lanark

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Have you actually watched Carolina's program? She might not do the sheer number of trasnitions that someone like Alina does, but the quality and variety of her transitions is superior. You don't need to do the same thing over and over again. Done once with excellence is enough.

And, because I'm still not entirely sure we're speaking of the same thing when we talk about transitions:
http://www.iceskatingresources.org/transitions.html


So, just for once look at Carolina's whole body when she's skating, she's moving all the time. Then watch Alina, with her rather stiff upper body. And when is she ever gliding? I see her gliding one time in her SP, when she's doing the Charlotte spiral and that glide is bumpy. Therefore - quality of execution of transitions - mediocre. And I'm not even talking about her extensions.
Skating is not about doing frantic steps all the time - skating is about gliding, holding an edge. It should look smooth.

But yes, maybe I have a dated view of how figure skating should look like. Maybe nowadays the ice is only needed for jumps and spins and a great skater only needs to frantically hop around from bland edge to bland edge. And I don't say that Alina hasn't got potential, she has great potential. She could become a great skater. It's just not there yet. And, as I mentioned before, I get why they don't want to develop that aspect of her skating in the Olympic season, also because she gets rather high scores anyway. But really, no one should wonder why there has to be a rather huge PCS gap between Alina and someone like Carolina.



Exactly!!!

I love Alina but I don't get why people want to compare a young skater like her with the most experienced skater like Carolina artistically.
There is no comparison, Kostner is miles away. She always has the best interpretation, she has great transitions, she knows how to take care of the PCS score without frenetically moving around her body and calling it transitions. That's what a lot of young skaters have been doing and people are buying it, unfortunately.

Maybe we do have an outdated view of figure skating though. The sports is evolving and changing its style. For me, a young viewer who didn't get to watch the 80s and 90s legends, the Golden era of figure skating was the Holy Trinity of Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner. That was the real deal. Breath taking performances all the time.
Now it's just... meh.

But it is a different style and I'm trying to get used to it.
Alina, for instance, in this SP, if it wasn't for the lack of musicality it would be a great performance. And I want to think they wouldn't create a program like that if they weren't sure she could pull it off.
She's amazing in her own way.

Let's not compare her with the goddess of artistry though.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I think Alina is a talented skater with potential for greatness. But right now she's not there. Yet her scores pretend she is. I like Black Swan but it didn't feel like Black Swan at all. All of her movements look extremely difficult and exhausting - and - completely unfinished. It's hectic there is no breathing room, no room for interpretation, for gliding...it's weird, she has a fragile, bird-like quality, is quite a beauty but her skating makes me think "jackhammer", not "swan". Weird.

Agreed. She has the potential to be something really special, but everyone - in their desperation to have SOMEONE challenge Medvedeva - wants it to be her. Right now.


I get backing a skater, and feeding into hype, but if a skater falls can we at least acknowledge when in happens... I mean, thinking that a 71 point short program with a fall is an acceptable for any skater -- and some are even saying she was underscored.

And it's not like from last season to this one she's artistically transformed herself from night to day (e.g. Kwan in her 1996 season vs 1995), and we all agree that she was behind on the music. But then to say she didn't get high enough?! Come on now. Even Medvedeva skating in her senior debut at CS Ondrej Nepela (63.68 points) and later on at 2015 Skate America (70.92 - which, was a crazy score/PCS leap) -- skating clean -- didn't score as high as Alina (71.29) did with a fall. Like, what, people are expecting Zagitova to get 75 points in her senior debut?!

I will say that this certainly makes her case for being on the Olympic team much stronger. If she's getting a personal best with a fall, then already the judges are in her corner. I mean, she got 9.00's. With a fall (in case I didn't mention it).

I also think people are panicking about one 2A mistake and saying she should scrap it. If she landed it perfectly people wouldn't say anything. If she continues to mess up on it, then sure, take it out. But she can definitely land that well. I honestly think it was a lack of focus (she might have thought she was home free) or lack of attack (she was a bit tentative throughout the program) that led to that error. It's fine -- it's nerves. It's her senior debut. And she doesn't have to be perfect.

I'm hoping she skates better in the FS today. But is scored appropriately.
 

lanark

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Agreed. She has the potential to be something really special, but everyone - in their desperation to have SOMEONE challenge Medvedeva - wants it to be her. Right now.


I get backing a skater, and feeding into hype, but if a skater falls can we at least acknowledge when in happens... I mean, thinking that a 71 point short program with a fall is an acceptable for any skater -- and some are even saying she was underscored.

And it's not like from last season to this one she's artistically transformed herself from night to day (e.g. Kwan in her 1996 season vs 1995), and we all agree that she was behind on the music. But then to say she didn't get high enough?! Come on now. Even Medvedeva skating in her senior debut at CS Ondrej Nepela (63.68 points) and later on at 2015 Skate America (70.92 - which, was a crazy score/PCS leap) -- skating clean -- didn't score as high as Alina (71.29) did with a fall. Like, what, people are expecting Zagitova to get 75 points in her senior debut?!

I will say that this certainly makes her case for being on the Olympic team much stronger. If she's getting a personal best with a fall, then already the judges are in her corner. I mean, she got 9.00's. With a fall (in case I didn't mention it).

I also think people are panicking about one 2A mistake and saying she should scrap it. If she landed it perfectly people wouldn't say anything. If she continues to mess up on it, then sure, take it out. But she can definitely land that well. I honestly think it was a lack of focus (she might have thought she was home free) or lack of attack (she was a bit tentative throughout the program) that led to that error. It's fine -- it's nerves. It's her senior debut. And she doesn't have to be perfect.

I'm hoping she skates better in the FS today. But is scored appropriately.
Agreed.

But I'm expecting even more overscore in the LP. That's just what figure skating has come to. Overscore, overscore, PCS inflation, ignoring wrong technique, overscore, world records for mediocre programs, overscore, overscore.
Unfortunately that's the reality.
So I'm just trying to enjoy the performances and ignore the numbers, otherwise I'll go mad. LOL
 
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