Kostner's plan for the Lutz in 2018?

halulupu · Dec 16, 2017

she will go. the worlds are in italy and it will most probably her last competition.

coldblueeyes · Dec 16, 2017

Spirals for Miles said:
2) PCS. Seems to me that people say Carolina's an artistic skater because she's doing a 6.0-type program. I've tried to find her artistry and I just can't. Where is all of the artistry that everyone's talking about? All I see are bland programs (low grades in IN and PE) transitionless skates (low grades in TR) boring choreography (low grades in CH) and the same facial expression throughout her entire career (low grades in PE). Her best category is Musicality, but that's not saying much.

So no, we're not upset about Carolina. We're upset at the absurd way that she's held up all of the time, and we're worried that it will happen again at the Olympics and possibly take a medal away from someone more deserving, depending on the skates shown. I'd be fine with her getting a medal if she actually merited it, but so far this season, she hasn't. You can't compete a 6.0-type program in 2017 and suddenly get scores in the 200s, the 210s to be exact, unless your name is Carolina Kostner. And there's no end in sight, it appears.

If you can't see where her scores from these three components in particular, I'll give you some material to read - highlighted for better comprehension.

Performance
Involvement of the Skater/Pair/Couple physically, emotionally and intellectually as they deliver the intent of the music and composition.
In evaluating the Performance, the following must be considered:
• Physical, emotional, intellectual involvement and projection;
• Carriage & Clarity of movement;
• Variety and contrast of movements and energy;
• Individuality / personality;

Composition
An intentionally developed and/or original arrangement of all types of movements according to the principles of musical phrase, space, pattern, and structure.
In evaluating the Composition, the following must be considered:
• Purpose (idea, concept, vision, mood);
• Pattern / ice coverage;
• Multidimensional use of space and design of movements;
• Phrase and form (movements and parts structured to match the musical phrase);
• Originality of the composition.

Interpretation of the Music /Timing (for Ice Dance)
The personal, creative, and genuine translation of the rhythm, character and content of music to movement on ice.
In evaluating the Interpretation of the Music (/Timing), the following must be considered:
• Movement and steps in time to the music (Timing);
• Expression of the music’s character / feeling and rhythm, when clearly identifiable;
• Use of finesse (*) to reflect the details and nuances of the music;

*Finesse is the Skater's refined, artful manipulation of music details and nuances through movement. It is unique to the Skater/Skaters, and demonstrates an inner feeling for the music and the composition. Nuances are the personal ways of bringing subtle variations to the intensity, tempo, and dynamics of the music made by the composer and/or musicians.

Now tell me in which of these she shouldn't be scoring high?

Also, I think you're worried that playing the system won't be enough for some skaters to get the gold - which, is not even happening with the skate Carolina showed today, not even if the judges wanted it to happen.

lappo · Dec 16, 2017

coldblueeyes said:
I have no idea if she's going - I mean, if she gets a gold in Korea, maybe she'll watch from the sidelines, otherwise I think she's going.

On another note, I do think she's a bit held up from time to time, but eh, that happens SO much these days, I don't care about it when it comes to Carolina. I don't care in the least. She gave an entire life for the sport and she came back because she loves it, at this point I don't think even she cares about what the judges want to give her - and it's not like she can control them...

Worlds are in Milan. I think she cares about them being on homesoil.

Baron Vladimir · Dec 16, 2017

Spirals for Miles said:
No, people are not complaining that she is "maybe displacing someone from the medal stand for being Kostner". We're complaining that she's held up constantly for no reason at all.
1) People talk about her great GOE. Why is that?

Unexpected / creative / difficult entry Nope. Barely any transitions at all. Very telegraphed entrance to every jump
Clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element If you count crossovers and two foot skating as recognizable steps and free skating movements, then sure. Oh wait, they're not. Sorry. Not getting this one.
Varied position in the air / delay in rotation Nope, Carolina does not have that. She has neither delayed rotation or tanos or rippons
Great height and/or distance I wouldn't say that she has "great" height or distance. Good maybe, but not great
Superior extension on landing / creative exit No creative exits... (see Tarakanova, etc.)
Superior flow in and out (and in-between in jump combinations / sequences) This is probably the only GOE bullet that she consistently hits
Now 1-2 bullets checked, which is what Carolina's doing, is +1 GOE BEFORE factoring. So why is she getting huge GOEs on her jumps? Beats me.

Thats not quite true. You can see her Lutz for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McT_E2sVrlc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m16s I see +2 at least, based on entry movement, height and distance, exstension and flow

GGFan · Dec 16, 2017

The whole purpose of this thread is the lutz. I thought folks would be losing their minds that she finally did it :scratch2:

Leppis · Dec 16, 2017

Sam-Skwantch said:
Is she planning on Worlds too?

I'm quite sure she is planning on competing at Worlds too since they are in Italy. Don't know if she is going to compete after this season, but that would be a great way to say goodbye.

Baron Vladimir · Dec 16, 2017

coldblueeyes said:
If you can't see where her scores from these three components in particular, I'll give you some material to read - highlighted for better comprehension.

Performance
Involvement of the Skater/Pair/Couple physically, emotionally and intellectually as they deliver the intent of the music and composition.
In evaluating the Performance, the following must be considered:
• Physical, emotional, intellectual involvement and projection;
• Carriage & Clarity of movement;
• Variety and contrast of movements and energy;
• Individuality / personality;

Composition
An intentionally developed and/or original arrangement of all types of movements according to the principles of musical phrase, space, pattern, and structure.
In evaluating the Composition, the following must be considered:
• Purpose (idea, concept, vision, mood);
• Pattern / ice coverage;
• Multidimensional use of space and design of movements;
• Phrase and form (movements and parts structured to match the musical phrase);
• Originality of the composition.

Also, ice coverage is a big positive factor in Caros skating. We cant quite see that watching it on TV screens tho

Skater Boy · Dec 16, 2017

Well everything is falling into place for Kostner to win gold. It is looking might good for her. Evgenia injured, Alina still rather young, the Japanese ladies unsure who will go and Osmond unable to pull together her long program. Queen Kostner - could be two patient ladies atop at the Olympics with Carolina and Savchenko seeking what they believe is their's - the Crown.

Crossover · Dec 16, 2017

You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why...

Caro's 3lutz is coming to town :biggrin:

And Christmas is coming soon.

So..the cleanly landed 3lutz at Nationals becomes a nice present for herself before Christmas. Nice job. :agree:

chuckm · Dec 16, 2017

I suspect we will see more tweaks to her FS at Euros. It would be great to see Caro win a 2nd Olympic medal. I just love her Afternoon of a Faun FS.

Spirals for Miles · Dec 16, 2017

Skater Boy said:
Well everything is falling into place for Kostner to win gold. It is looking might good for her. Evgenia injured, Alina still rather young, the Japanese ladies unsure who will go and Osmond unable to pull together her long program. Queen Kostner - could be two patient ladies atop at the Olympics with Carolina and Savchenko seeking what they believe is their's - the Crown.

Nope!
Evgenia is not injured anymore! The real queen is back!

Krunchii · Dec 16, 2017

I checked her track record with the lutz after bringing it back in 2012 and she never fell on it once, only turned out of it at 2012 Golden Spin of Zagreb, the very first one she tried since 2010 and then doubled it at Cup of China 2013. All other times were clean with positive GOE. Everyone better be scared now!

bobbob · Dec 16, 2017

She has all the compnents back! She just needs to put everything together, and clean, and she's well on her way to a medal or more.

zschultz1986 · Dec 16, 2017

Spirals for Miles said:
Nope!
Evgenia is not injured anymore! The real queen is back!

I didn't know Witt/Kristi/Yuna/Mao/Michelle were coming back to competitive skating. Talk to us when Evgenia can carry a program without having to mime the beginning and end.

Roast Toast · Dec 16, 2017

Wow, she looks like she completely reworked her lutz technique! I guess Mishin isn't just for show... I wonder what FS layout she'll be going for now -- I'd love to see her bring her 2A-3T back! How does something like this sound:

SP:
3F-3T
3Lo
//
2A

FS:
3Lz
2A-3T
3F
3L
//
2A-1Lo-3S
3T
3S-2T

Caro with a seven triples FS would be quite something...

Shayuki · Dec 16, 2017

ask said:
Kostner just stepped up her game and people complaint she is maybe displacing someone from the medal stand for being Kostner. I mean, what the hell? Lol. I feel like I am arguing with children.

"Stepped up her game" - Good for her for landing a triple lutz, but she still only landed 4 clean triples this FS.

shmay · Dec 16, 2017

Roast Toast said:
Wow, she looks like she completely reworked her lutz technique! I guess Mishin isn't just for show... I wonder what FS layout she'll be going for now -- I'd love to see her bring her 2A-3T back! How does something like this sound:

SP:
3F-3T
3Lo
//
2A

FS:
3Lz
2A-3T
3F
3L
//
2A-1Lo-3S
3T
3S-2T

If she keeps up this slow-building momentum strategy that's clearly working for her, I think she might be capable of moving the 3L to the 2nd half in SP by the time Korea comes around. Or she could possibly try a 3Z from steps in the 1st half as her solo triple. That lutz today looked pretty damn good.

The FS layout you listed for her is interesting, but I think she could do either two 3Fs or two 3Ls rather than repeat the salchow.

moriel · Dec 16, 2017

Spirals for Miles said:
whole post

thanks for saying it up.

For people who think Carolina is not being held up, please look at the PCs she gets for VERY flawed performance (a performance with 4 triples is, by definition, very flawed). This is just not right. No other skater got such PCs.

Please dont tell me about outstanding artistry, because Mao is also an outstanding artist and she never got such PCs scores when she messed up.

TryMeLater · Dec 16, 2017

moriel said:
thanks for saying it up.

For people who think Carolina is not being held up, please look at the PCs she gets for VERY flawed performance (a performance with 4 triples is, by definition, very flawed). This is just not right. No other skater got such PCs.

Please dont tell me about outstanding artistry, because Mao is also an outstanding artist and she never got such PCs scores when she messed up.

A performance with 4 Triples is not flawed at all.
A performance with a fall is a flawed one.
However, this is nationals and when the give Giada Russo 8's for PCS than Kostner surly deserves 9's.

TryMeLater · Dec 16, 2017

Shayuki said:
"Stepped up her game" - Good for her for landing a triple lutz, but she still only landed 4 clean triples this FS.

It's nationals...unlike the Russians, she doesn't need to peak at nationals.

Kostner's plan for the Lutz in 2018?

halulupu

coldblueeyes

lappo

Baron Vladimir

GGFan

Leppis

Baron Vladimir

Skater Boy

Crossover

All Hail the Queen

chuckm

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion

Krunchii

bobbob

zschultz1986

Roast Toast

Shayuki

shmay

moriel

TryMeLater

TryMeLater

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