Kostner's plan for the Lutz in 2018?

Baron Vladimir · Nov 12, 2017

moriel said:
Ummm just saying, I really don't see Alina getting a 137 score if she only managed 5 triples, backloading or no backloading.
As for PCs, I see many people disagreeing that she should receive such PCs. For example, I don't really see transitions in her programs, specially compared to other ladies currently skating. And so on.
Her GOEs also seem pretty debatable to me, mora than Alina's / Osmond's / Medvedeva's etc blabla

I think Caro had a lot more of body movements as part of her transitions so she still manage to connect elements of her programme in meaningfull concept. Even Alina has more transitions with blades she still doesnt succed in making them be integral part of the programme that good.

Leonardo · Nov 12, 2017

Baron Vladimir said:
Osmond already got near 73. I dont think Wakaba and Alina will score that high as they are still not that good in projecting/emoting/skating for the audience or skating their programmes as a whole. Also, by current rules, quality is still having (almost) equal role in FS programme as quantity.

Wakaba is very very good in projecting and emoting for an audience. Very mature, expressive and her artistry has been praised by almost every commentator and knowledgeable person in figure skating. She simply doesn't have enough reputation and is underscored time after time like most of the japanese ladies.

ask · Nov 12, 2017

Fruitpie said:
Caro at the age of 15 already had her artistic mark higher than her tech. I fail to see your point.

Don't rewrite history.
2003 worlds. Tech is 5.3 to 5.7. Artistic is 5.3 to 5.6.
In the new scoring system.
2005 worlds. Tes 33+. PCS 27+

ask · Nov 12, 2017

Leonardo said:
Wakaba is very very good in projecting and emoting for an audience. Very mature, expressive and her artistry has been praised by almost every commentator and knowledgeable person in figure skating. She simply doesn't have enough reputation and is underscored time after time like most of the japanese ladies.

Wakaba right out of the gate already got better PCS than Yuna, Mao, Kostner did. Let's wait 8 years and decide if she is underscored.

How many of the current girls have the correct technique to be able to land triples at 30? Satoko? Medvedeva? Zagitova?

Leonardo · Nov 12, 2017

ask said:
Wakaba right out of the gate already got better PCS than Yuna, Mao, Kostner did. Let's wait 8 years and decide if she is underscored.

What?? You can't compare pcs nowadays with pcs given 10 years ago. The point is, she skates big, fast, with great artistry, mature presentation but scores like 7 or 8 points less in pcs than Medvedeva with a fall. And scores less in pcs than skaters who skate like juniors with one note superficial interpretation, worse skating skills, etc

Ender · Nov 12, 2017

bobbob said:
Give Kostner a break...her technical isn't that bad...maybe she won't do a lutz just yet but I know she won't put it in unless it's got perfect technique. So if we were to get technical...Evgenia, Osmond, (many more) don't have a lutz either...they do a modified flip that looks enough like a lutz to get credit. Carolina probably has more dignity than trying to trick the judges into giving her credit. Generally, if you can do a flip you can do a flutz, but not necessarily a proper lutz.

And Caro did have a 3-3 in her long last year but there's no point in putting it in without a lutz. So her only issue is that she doesn't want to put a flutz in the program like many others do...

Anyways, I think if Caro goes clean with her current jump content, she can get a silver.

I think people are thinking too much over Kostner’s scores. Yes she is favored but let’s be realistic, it’s just GP events.
At bigger events, especially at Olympic, they will chose a decent performance from a Russian, a decent performance from a Canadian over Kostner and rightfully so because they have higher tech.
Kostner scores well and medals at GPs but we cannot compare GP to WC or Olympic.

Fruitpie · Nov 12, 2017

ask said:
Don't rewrite history.
2003 worlds. Tech is 5.3 to 5.7. Artistic is 5.3 to 5.6.
In the new scoring system.
2005 worlds. Tes 33+. PCS 27+

You want to prove your point so much, but your facts are incorrect.
Worlds 2003 - disastrous LP. Every judge, without exception, gave Kostner artistic mark higher than her tech.

moriel · Nov 12, 2017

Ender said:
I think people are thinking too much over Kostner’s scores. Yes she is favored but let’s be realistic, it’s just GP events.
At bigger events, especially at Olympic, they will chose a decent performance from a Russian, a decent performance from a Canadian over Kostner and rightfully so because they have higher tech.
Kostner scores well and medals at GPs but we cannot compare GP to WC or Olympic.

Well, just saying, I bet the podium will be something like this: Medvedeva with 2 clean program. Osmond with a clean SP and small wobbles in FS. And then Caro with 4 triples for bronze. And then, from 4th and down, about 10 ladies with 7 triples in their FS.

daphna · Nov 12, 2017

is Kostner actuallt training the lutz at all?
she will need it for the olympics, IMO.

Ender · Nov 12, 2017

moriel said:
Well, just saying, I bet the podium will be something like this: Medvedeva with 2 clean program. Osmond with a clean SP and small wobbles in FS. And then Caro with 4 triples for bronze. And then, from 4th and down, about 10 ladies with 7 triples in their FS.

Realistically, judging from last season WC:
Podium at WC or Olympic will be a fight between Russian and Canadian ladies, the bronze might be reversed for Japanese/American ladies.
Kostner will place 6th or 7th. That’s it. Don’t be deluded by the scores at GP.

Skater Boy · Nov 12, 2017

I tihnk I see Caro win the bronze at the Olympics. Kind of a candelero, Lu chen situation - kind of like weeds you can't get rid of them and they are always there. I really really hope though she wins because other skaters have bad skates - Osmnd, Ebgenia, Alina, the Japanese ladies. I do think her pcs should take a bit of a hit because of the lack of tech or they give bonuses to the ladies trying all the jumps. But in reality she will win a bronze at least.

Ender · Nov 12, 2017

Skater Boy said:
I tihnk I see Caro win the bronze at the Olympics. Kind of a candelero, Lu chen situation - kind of like weeds you can't get rid of them and they are always there. I really really hope though she wins because other skaters have bad skates - Osmnd, Ebgenia, Alina, the Japanese ladies. I do think her pcs should take a bit of a hit because of the lack of tech or they give bonuses to the ladies trying all the jumps. But in reality she will win a bronze at least.

Did she win any medal at last WC? No. People are thinking too much, if she is peaking (doing well) right now, can she peak at again at the Olympic? I don’t see that happening.

ask · Nov 12, 2017

Leonardo said:
What?? You can't compare pcs nowadays with pcs given 10 years ago. The point is, she skates big, fast, with great artistry, mature presentation but scores like 7 or 8 points less in pcs than Medvedeva with a fall. And scores less in pcs than skaters who skate like juniors with one note superficial interpretation, worse skating skills, etc

Relative to other skaters who mime and add random transitions, yes. Relative to Kostner, no. This is a Kostner thread.

moriel · Nov 12, 2017

Ender said:
Realistically, judging from last season WC:
Podium at WC or Olympic will be a fight between Russian and Canadian ladies, the bronze might be reversed for Japanese/American ladies.
Kostner will place 6th or 7th. That’s it. Don’t be deluded by the scores at GP.

I really hope so, but then I´m not entirely sure. Because you know, all those +2+3 GOE and then 79 PCs because she got 75 at NHK...
Thats something I wouldnt like to see.

largeman · Nov 12, 2017

daphna said:
is Kostner actuallt training the lutz at all?
she will need it for the olympics, IMO.

I hope she is... not that I care about her placement at the Olympics that much, but because I think her lutz was truly an outstanding, textbook, great looking jump.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 12, 2017

Ender said:
Did she win any medal at last WC? No. People are thinking too much, if she is peaking (doing well) right now, can she peak at again at the Olympic? I don’t see that happening.

Caro is skating much better this season that she was last year. Her speed and transitions are noticeably improved and her jumps are stronger. It wouldn't bother me for Caro to win a medal without a lutz, but I would hope that if she does so, she does it with a 3 triple SP and a 6 triple LP.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 12, 2017

daphna said:
is Kostner actuallt training the lutz at all?
she will need it for the olympics, IMO.

If she is training it, I would think we would see it at the GPF, Italian Nationals, and Europeans. She didn't need to take the risk to qualify for the GPF, but now that she has, it seems like a good opportunity to go for it.

David21 · Nov 12, 2017

Fruitpie said:
You want to prove your point so much, but always lying.
Worlds 2003 - disastrous LP. Every judge, without exception, gave Kostner artistic mark higher than her tech.

Yeah, you got it...she got higher artistic marks because her skate was a technical disaster so the jugdes bascially had no other choice.. In the SP she got higher scores in the first mark. At Worlds one year later, she got higher marks for tech in both the SP and LP so you are wrong.

Skater Boy said:
I do think her pcs should take a bit of a hit because of the lack of tech or they give bonuses to the ladies trying all the jumps.

You are wrong to say that the PCS should take a hit because of "lack of tech". The difficulty of the jumping content and the PCS are not related. Read the ISU ruebook.

Baron Vladimir · Nov 12, 2017

Leonardo said:
Wakaba is very very good in projecting and emoting for an audience. Very mature, expressive and her artistry has been praised by almost every commentator and knowledgeable person in figure skating. She simply doesn't have enough reputation and is underscored time after time like most of the japanese ladies.

Im not saying Alina and Wakaba are bad or not good, just how there are skaters still more successfull in that segment. I watched Wakaba live last year and there are skaters (not many, but they are there) who 'fill the rink' better. And Wakaba is getting quite good score in SS (8,5+), so i wouldnt say she is underscored. Also, looking at her PCS scores from last year, they are significally higher now, so she is progressing in that segment, no doubt.

Globetrotter · Nov 12, 2017

Let's see what CaroK and Prof Mishin brings to the table. CaroK had surprised us before when she suddenly upped her planned 3T-3T in Sochi 2014 SP to 3F-3T without warning. Her LP layout had sufficient flexibility- e.g opening flip toe could be upgraded to 3-3, either the second 3F or the single 3T can be replaced with 3Lz or the 3Lz can replace the second 3F which then moves to the single 3T. I personally think the lutz will be more a challenge - remembered reading some time ago that the high impact of the lutz was tough on her ankles and knees as it is pretty obvious that CaroK's lutz had nice height and exit. The only reason she should bring it back was that it really was a textbook classical lutz - few men or ladies could match it for the deep edge and flow out of the jump.

And the lutz never had edge doubts.

Kostner's plan for the Lutz in 2018?

Baron Vladimir

Leonardo

ask

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ask

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Leonardo

Ender

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Fruitpie

moriel

daphna

Ender

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Skater Boy

Ender

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ask

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moriel

largeman

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drivingmissdaisy

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David21

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