2018 Olympic Season: Ladies Figure Skating | Page 23 | Golden Skate

2018 Olympic Season: Ladies Figure Skating

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Highlights:

Kaetlyn Osmond skating the best in her career by a long shot, after splatting all season and no one believed in her (I definitely didn't)

This was a very --dramatic-- ladies FS. Basically everything we didn't expect to happen happened, all of the above

Perhaps you didn't colormyworld240, but rest assured many here believed as I did since joining this Forum in 2013, and as per my predictions for her chances for Gold, at both the OG and Worlds in 2018. ;)

You might have had limited expectations, but others believed such as millie, 4everchan, NanaPat, cherryblossom, mrrice, BillNeal, Mango, Ic3rabbits, SarahSynchro, TGee, NoNameFace, Arriba627, VioletBliss, Colonel Green, John King, CanadianSkaterGuy, Tulipstar, Sarahskater, AvgeekJoe, Puchi, Roo87, DrJenn, Off My Rocker, anyanka, Siberia82, and sooo many others, did.

I salute all of them! :thank: Too bad you did not share in our belief.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
She didn't fall or pop, I consider that clean, for her at least.

Yeah. At this point it's just splitting hairs, because even with a stepout and given how everyone skated, her overall performance was very obviously deserving of the gold.

Fine, it's not "clean" and she had a stepout at the Olympics when she won individual bronze... but if that's all the naysayers have to cling to in order to diminish or trivialize her and make them feel better about themselves, we might as well throw them a bone or two. #Empathy :laugh:
 

colormyworld240

Medalist
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Perhaps you didn't colormyworld240, but rest assured many here believed as I did since joining this Forum in 2013, and as per my predictions for her chances for Gold, at both the OG and Worlds in 2018. ;)

You might have had limited expectations, but others believed such as millie, 4everchan, NanaPat, cherryblossom, mrrice, BillNeal, Mango, Ic3rabbits, SarahSynchro, TGee, NoNameFace, Arriba627, VioletBliss, Colonel Green, John King, CanadianSkaterGuy, Tulipstar, Sarahskater, AvgeekJoe, Puchi, Roo87, DrJenn, Off My Rocker, anyanka, Siberia82, and sooo many others, did.

I salute all of them! :thank: Too bad you did not share in our belief.

Ok. I suppose hard fans will always believe in their skaters. All skaters have fans, those much less talented than Kaetlyn as well, and I'm sure they would tell you they believe those could skate clean as well. But I was speaking of stats. Up until then, she never had a clean FS, so based on that I didn't think it was likely. I don't see anything wrong with that? It was the same for Alina skating a clean SP - I didn't think it was going to happen either. They gave me, and many others, Pogorilaya/Cohen vibes. That's why both are in my highlights. The general tone though, was a majority of people, was that those two were never going to have those programs clean; by "no one" I didn't mean in the literal sense as in not a single person on this Earth. They both have had much more doubt than belief this season, on this forum as well as other venues, and based on how they skated those programs up to that point, I also doubted them. I'm sure you've seen the overwhelming doubt for those two? Not the stupid fat swan/steroid robot comments, the constructive ones that discuss their lack of consistency. That's what I meant. This is me clarifying.
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Ok. I suppose hard fans will always believe in their skaters. All skaters have fans, those much less talented than Kaetlyn as well, and I'm sure they would tell you they believe those could skate clean as well. But I was speaking of stats. Up until then, she never had a clean FS, so based on that I didn't think it was likely. I don't see anything wrong with that? It was the same for Alina skating a clean SP - I didn't think it was going to happen either. They gave me, and many others, Pogorilaya/Cohen vibes. That's why both are in my highlights. The general tone though, was a majority of people, was that those two were never going to have those programs clean; by "no one" I didn't mean in the literal sense as in not a single person on this Earth. They both have had much more doubt than belief this season, on this forum as well as other venues, and based on how they skated those programs up to that point, I also doubted them. I'm sure you've seen the overwhelming doubt for those two? Not the stupid fat swan/steroid robot comments, the constructive ones that discuss their lack of consistency. That's what I meant. This is me clarifying.

So you are of the belief that a skater who skates with that much speed, strength, power, height and trajectory, must skate clean in order to succeed? Sure, let's be extra cautious and hardly get off the ground, as some do in playing the ''safe game''. As Kaetlyn has said these past 2 seasons, I am skating not for perfection, but towards excellence! Yes, excellence has its inherited risks when one skates that fast and that big, but to me her style versus others is worth the risk, and has more than paid off in achieving her goals and World/Olympic results.

No reward without taking risks, I say.
 

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
I don't think anyone should be able to win if they don't skate clean and others do...

Kaetlyn is certainly very gutsy and has improved a lot over a short period of time, but when I think of risks, I don't think of her, I think of Trusova trying 2 quads when she could barely land 1, or Zagitova backloading her entire FS... YMMV
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
I don't think anyone should be able to win if they don't skate clean and others do...

Kaetlyn is certainly very gutsy and has improved a lot over a short period of time, but when I think of risks, I don't think of her, I think of Trusova trying 2 quads when she could barely land 1, or Zagitova backloading her entire FS... YMMV

Until Russian junior skaters are able to compete at a senior level with the same presentation skills, power, height, speed and trajectory, as compared to other senior ladies skaters, they are not even in the conversation equation here. Please do not reference them in the 2018 Olympic Ladies forum, Spirals, as they do not even belong in this Thread ever, or in the same caliber as a top senior skaters currently. :palmf:
 

BillNeal

You Know I'm a FS Fan...
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
I don't think anyone should be able to win if they don't skate clean and others do...

Kaetlyn is certainly very gutsy and has improved a lot over a short period of time, but when I think of risks, I don't think of her, I think of Trusova trying 2 quads when she could barely land 1, or Zagitova backloading her entire FS... YMMV

Kaetlyn and Ravi have focused on development and longevity rather than getting quick results. Over two quads, she has upgraded her SP combo from 3T3T to 3F3T and her 3F2T FS combo to 3F3T in addition to adding a 3Lo. These are in addition to her overall improvements in speed, skating skills and presentation. Her team has emphasized producing a balanced LP with well-excuted skills that blends into the theme of the program rather than conserving energy for two minutes and then doing a jumpathon.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Kaetlyn and Ravi have focused on development and longevity rather than getting quick results. Over two quads, she has upgraded her SP combo from 3T3T to 3F3T and her 3F2T FS combo to 3F3T in addition to adding a 3Lo. These are in addition to her overall improvements in speed, skating skills and presentation. Her team has emphasized producing a balanced LP with well-excuted skills that blends into the theme of the program rather than conserving energy for two minutes and then doing a jumpathon.

people don't realize how fast and with how much power skating goes around the ice... as if that were easy... backloading is one thing but skating at maximum speed for 4 minutes is something else... and it's as commendable IMHO than the other....
 

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
people don't realize how fast and with how much power skating goes around the ice... as if that were easy... backloading is one thing but skating at maximum speed for 4 minutes is something else... and it's as commendable IMHO than the other....
Is she "skating at max speed" while she's standing around flapping her arms? Or do you just use "for 4 minutes" very loosely here? Zagitova's program is more demanding skating-wise.
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Give me a well choreographed and a balanced program with exertion and pauses, speed and athleticism any day, over one that includes 2 minutes of blandness. :yawn:

Sorry, but just not my taste.
 

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Them: there's more to figure skating than just jumps!
Also them: there's nothing to her first two minutes!

To clarify: this is NOT in response to O4G but to anyone who presents this dichotomy
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Them: there's more to figure skating than just jumps!Also them: there's nothing to her first two minutes!

To clarify: this is NOT in response to O4G but to anyone who presents this dichotomy

While Kaetlyn's jumps are huge and exquisite, Spirals, there is so much more to her skating than just jumps. A complete skater she is, which is rare in women's figure skating these days.
 

colormyworld240

Medalist
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
So you are of the belief that a skater who skates with that much speed, strength, power, height and trajectory, must skate clean in order to succeed? Sure, let's be extra cautious and hardly get off the ground, as some do in playing the ''safe game''. As Kaetlyn has said these past 2 seasons, I am skating not for perfection, but towards excellence! Yes, excellence has its inherited risks when one skates that fast and that big, but to me her style versus others is worth the risk, and has more than paid off in achieving her goals and World/Olympic results.

No reward without taking risks, I say.

I didn't say they have to skate clean to succeed, actually. If you look at the original comment, I wrote I didn't think Kaetlyn could skate clean. I never said she wasn't successful. Both her and Alina have won many medals this season with skates that weren't clean, over clean skaters (albeit the judging could have gone either way for SC and CoC, but that is only my opinion). They've been on podiums all season. Yes I agree with no reward without risks, and I agree with their medals even with their mistakes. As another poster said, it's not the podium that is surprising; it's the individual skates that were. They could be successful without clean skates, but it's a highlight that they were.

As for more speed with less transitions vs. slower with more transitions, that's a preference. For ballet, I prefer more transitions. For other programs, I prefer less. But that doesn't mean one is better than the other. You do seem to criticize Alina a lot though. I don't understand why you throw in balance so much, when what you actually mean is symmetrical. Her FS isn't unbalanced at all; it is composed as the ballet is. It would be less balanced to the music, had she done a 3/4 jump layout to the pas de deux, and from a dancer's perspective, it would have been a disgrace to the piece of music. How is it bland? Maybe you don't like pas de deux's, but this is how they are structured and it's an art. Obviously, they chose this piece so she could backload but there's nothing wrong with that; it fits the theme and music. And she is quite a complete skater as well. Beautiful spins, flexible positions, and good interpretation, even though people disagree by saying she should be pulling agonizing dramatic faces like Evgenia, but she is in fact Kitri.

And if you're talking about jumps themselves, Kaetlyn has higher jumps with a lot of flow. Alina has better air positions and arm variations. There are GOE bullets for both. You may prefer one to the other, as I'm sure everyone does. But they're each a bullet point in GOE scoring. And same for CH/PE/INT. You may prefer a style to another, but that doesn't mean one is universally better. I don't understand the constant comparison though, Alina is OC and Kaetlyn is WC. Do you disagree with either? Because I do not.
 

colormyworld240

Medalist
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Kaetlyn and Ravi have focused on development and longevity rather than getting quick results. Over two quads, she has upgraded her SP combo from 3T3T to 3F3T and her 3F2T FS combo to 3F3T in addition to adding a 3Lo. These are in addition to her overall improvements in speed, skating skills and presentation. Her team has emphasized producing a balanced LP with well-excuted skills that blends into the theme of the program rather than conserving energy for two minutes and then doing a jumpathon.

Can't agree with the second part. Alina definitely doesn't conserve energy in the first half, her step sequence is very difficult and energy consuming, and that FC spin is the highlight of the entire program. She doesn't do it with much speed, but that's more of that being the fastest she can do it than it is about conserving energy. As for development, I think Alina's team did that for her as well. If you watch her 2 seasons ago, she couldn't complete all her jumping passes at all, and the season before she could only jump 2A-2Lo. And she had absolutely no presentation skills to speak of, probably because she could not even jump. Her speed across the ice, though, was much better :scratch2: And some seasons ago both were injured, breaking arms an legs and whatnot and when they came back, one was kicked out by her trainer and the other falling on every single jumping pass. They've both developed a LOT in the past two quads, and peaked at the right time for olympics.
 
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