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Thread: 2017_18 ISU Judging Anomalies

  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by russianfan View Post
    russian judge scoring russians higher than osmond, canadian judge scoring Osmond higher than russians... nothing new
    korean judge being the biggest fan of russians, giving 160+ to both, now that's interesting
    That's not what being called out - it's the Russian judge lowballing Osmond in addition to scoring RUS girls higher. The CAN judge is obviously overscoring Osmond but isn't throwing 8.75s at the Russian two two.

    Two things I've noticed generally these past two or three seasons bugging me, which came to a head today:

    1) Pairs twists with crash landings / botched catches aren't penalized, especially not T/M's messy quad twist. +2.0 went up immediately and didn't budge, when that should have been +0 or lower.

    2) The judges in the men's have started ignoring the footwork into solo triple/quad requirement and GOE reduction (unless the rules have been changed and I missed it?). Nathan does almost nothing into his 4F. Yes, I understand more footwork into it may be impossible, but those are the rules and he should still be penalized. The judges can still take into consideration that there is *something* before the jump and that the jump is difficult and only take off -1 instead of more. Kolyada is even worse with his lutz. His 3Lz today was GIGANTIC and had a difficult exit - a sure +3 IF this wasn't the short program. I had him at +1.

    --

    As an aside, I encourage you all to read the rather long post above; it gets at a lot of the game theoretic / incentive to overscore thing I think I discussed earlier in this thread, but much more eloquently. The solution is to recruit more non-powerhouse judges and to drop more of the scores.

  2. #392
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    Nathan Chen's OBVIOUS UR 4F, no call: https://twitter.com/Alisha_Vaughn24/...56272745222145
    Vincent Zhou's OBVIOUS UR 4lz3T, no call:https://twitter.com/Alisha_Vaughn24/...57237103742976
    Boyang Jin's 4T, called https://twitter.com/Alisha_Vaughn24/...52311464202246

    Same competition, they're all Asian, and all Chinese honestly. Biggest difference: The first 2 represent USFA/ America. And Boyang represents China.
    Nationalities MATTER.

  3. #393
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    Pairs free skate components today, listed in skate order.

    A/W 55.83
    Ziegler/Kiefer 58.38
    Hocke/Blommaert 59.14
    Duskova/Bidar 58.84
    Ryom/Kim 60.34
    Scimeca Knierim/Knierim 59.90
    Yu/Zhang 65.67
    Moore Towers/Marinaro 66.11
    Astakhova/Rogonov 66.43
    Marchi/Hotarek 68.07
    Peng/Jin 67.63
    Della Monica/Guarise 68.79
    Zabiako/Enbert 69.43
    James/Cipres 72.80

    Savchenko/Massot 78.96
    Tarasova/Morosov 73.94


    Take the example of Peng/Jin, who by all accounts have been getting way lower PCS than Yu/Zhang. They come in here, skate a subpar program, with more mistakes than Yu/Zhang, and then turn up with 2 points higher PCS? Like what?

    Now take the pairs ranked between 4th and 10th. Their long PCS, listed in order of skate order. You can see the PCS increasing almost linearly, with only a small bump down for P/J presumably due to hometown scoring for M/H. Now you say, later skating pairs are probably better, true, but look now at the short, with a different oder.

    Now look at the short PCS, in SKATE ORDER of these 8 pairs:
    A/R 32.09
    Peng/Jin 33.22
    Mt/M 32.69
    M/H 34.40
    Y/Z 33.51
    DM/G 34.24
    Z/E 35.35
    J/C 36.09

    The PCS are different--but even with the order mixed up, the PCS seems to go with the order, not the skater!
    Other than a single outlier of Savchenko/Massot, everyone else's PCS was basically the PCS of the skater before them increased by a little bit. Skate order is literally the only thing that matter when determining PCS (If you are a home country skater that helps too, and may be the only way of getting yourself of the PCS assigned to you based on your start order.) The only outliers here were home country skaters M/H, and not by much!

    Ridiculous!

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlotte14 View Post
    Nathan Chen's OBVIOUS UR 4F, no call: https://twitter.com/Alisha_Vaughn24/...56272745222145
    Vincent Zhou's OBVIOUS UR 4lz3T, no call:https://twitter.com/Alisha_Vaughn24/...57237103742976
    Boyang Jin's 4T, called https://twitter.com/Alisha_Vaughn24/...52311464202246

    Same competition, they're all Asian, and all Chinese honestly. Biggest difference: The first 2 represent USFA/ America. And Boyang represents China.
    Nationalities MATTER.
    *angles* matter, and we don't know what camera judges used. The gifs, especially for Chen, are misleading. Also, UR does not mean slightly less than fully backward, it means 1/4 turn or more, with benefit of doubt giving to the skater.

    Sigh, the Boyang fans really are driving me mad like no other. Yes, he's talented. No, he's not getting lowballed.

  5. #395
    Bona Fide Member plushyfan's Avatar
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    Yes, it shows we can like the new system or not but the main purpose was not met. The judges can cheat if they want.

  6. #396
    Bona Fide Member chapis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlotte14 View Post
    Nathan Chen's OBVIOUS UR 4F, no call: https://twitter.com/Alisha_Vaughn24/...56272745222145
    Vincent Zhou's OBVIOUS UR 4lz3T, no call:https://twitter.com/Alisha_Vaughn24/...57237103742976
    Boyang Jin's 4T, called https://twitter.com/Alisha_Vaughn24/...52311464202246

    Same competition, they're all Asian, and all Chinese honestly. Biggest difference: The first 2 represent USFA/ America. And Boyang represents China.
    Nationalities MATTER.
    not only Nationalities, the reputation and politicking of coaches helps too, Boyang should go with Brian or another big name.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
    *angles* matter, and we don't know what camera judges used. The gifs, especially for Chen, are misleading. Also, UR does not mean slightly less than fully backward, it means 1/4 turn or more, with benefit of doubt giving to the skater.

    Sigh, the Boyang fans really are driving me mad like no other. Yes, he's talented. No, he's not getting lowballed.
    Some audience at the Milan WC saw that Vincent and Nathan's questionable landings in real time. And nope, no one says Boyang was underscored. They're saying he's robbed because the American skaters do not get called for the same mistakes.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatif View Post
    I don't think it's just the case of the "fake Australian" judge. The whole technical panel for ladies and men might have used a completely different set of ISU technical guidelines from the rest of the ISU as 95% of calls at this event were simply mind boggling.

    I am talking to you Ms Yukiko Okabe, Mr Scott Davis, and Mr Fernand Fedronic. J'accuse......
    This person Frederonic, whom I know very well, should be eliminated by ISU for more judgeing

  9. #399
    Bona Fide Member Osmond4gold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    That's what Euros was for!

    Although there was also the SD where the Russian judge put B/S in 3rd, while the mean average placement was 6.44. http://skatingscores.com/2018/oly/dance/short/tss/

    The Russian judge also put Osmond wayyy behind Zag/Med in both programs:

    http://skatingscores.com/2018/oly/ladies/short/tss/
    http://skatingscores.com/2018/oly/ladies/long/tss/
    Am I rest my case re Osmond lowballed at the OG's. Looks like some judges are getting ...nervous.

  10. #400
    All Hail Empress Eteri Spirals for Miles's Avatar
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    I really don't think she was lowballed: she had more jumps in the first part, but more importantly, she made a mistake

    If you want to further discuss this, let's find the Olympics thread to do it on though

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlotte14 View Post
    Some audience at the Milan WC saw that Vincent and Nathan's questionable landings in real time. And nope, no one says Boyang was underscored. They're saying he's robbed because the American skaters do not get called for the same mistakes.
    Nobody is saying that because Boyang was overscored. He had 5 falls and still scored above 70 PCS, including marks as high as 8.00/8.25.

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