PCS sounds more like a reputation score for me, Just 12-15 CLEAN programs with improvements, podium and stability in every program during ISU events and GP will help any other skater to pump PCS to that level. easy way but not for everyone.
2017_18 ISU Judging Anomalies
- Thread starter Sam-Skwantch
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PCS sounds more like a reputation score for me, Just 12-15 CLEAN programs with improvements, podium and stability in every program during ISU events and GP will help any other skater to pump PCS to that level. easy way but not for everyone.
Yes, when I asked my mother who is very musical what she thought of Zagitova's performance she said her timing looked jerky and off time but that her "mix of moves was amazing".
(She also thought that Gabby had incredible jumps but was not on time with the music for most of the event.)
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- Aug 25, 2017
Judge 5 gave S/M first throw (the really tight one) a +3. I agree with that on their second throw, but the first? Not sure....
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How do you feel about the slew of -2's for T/M's throw? Of course, they almost matched their PCS personal best (in Russia at Euros 2018) in spite of 2 major errors, which was other ridiculousness.
Sui and Han should have also had straight -2's for their 3T+1T+2T -- he singled one of the jumps (so the pair's rotations were thus not the same) and her third jump in the pass was very rickety (it was almost UR, but I didn't slow it down to see for sure). Arguably their SBS 3S should have been -2's across as well -- since she stepped out and put a hand down.
S/B coming 9th is great, but they also would have come 8th had Y/Z not been saved with all their errors, and had the GOE on their final (obviously botched lift) not been as high (like, +2s?!) and had their throw fall (with an eerily awkward split fall that reminded me of Dan in 2006
) been given -3s. It's kinda ridiculous that Vanessa stood up on her 4S and got as many -3s.
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Mirai's jumps were not more than 1/4 short, especially that 3T, which she put so much force into to get it around that it caused the jilt on the landing. Mirai's 3T there was more around than Daleman's and Kostner's! I'll post screencaps later of the takeoffs and landings if wanted. Kaori's 3Flip was obviously underrotated, not sure why you're upset with that call.
I do think the calls on Kostner's jumps were wrong (the combo calls were borderline but that 2A was certainly clean), but she gets inflated on GOE and PCS, and no way should her performance have placed higher than it did. The real talk is if she even deserved to place ahead of Kaori! Daleman's call on the 3Lo was wrong to me, but they could have called the 3T if they wanted to be strict, and she also did not deserve to place above Mirai, so.
I think those scores are too high for Alina, her skating skills are not 9.25 worthy, nor her transitions or choreography (or any component for that matter). Alina hardly even has transitions in the first half of her program, as almost everything in that section is already the choreography sequence or footwork sequence! The way she goes into and out of the flying camel is the only thing that can even be assessed as a transition there! The transitions she does do are not the most difficult or spectacular, and they are all brief, seeing as how she is trying to cram so many jumps into the second half of the program and there isn't any time to do much else.
I feel you're too low on some of Mirai's components as well, she did have some nice emotive areas and generally followed the music and showed good body position. Her program builds more than Alina's and there's more variety of mood, Alina just stays on one level mostly, and is anything Alina does as expressive as Mirai's release of emotion at the end? Of course Alina deserved higher PCS, but her skating isn't better in every way possible, she's extremely inflated. The usage of her limbs is not as refined as some people make it sound, she doesn't always project fully, and look at how she pumps with her back at times.
In the end their total scores were only 4 points apart for me (all on PCS, nearly identical tech score), I'd mark Alina's tech elements as such:
ChSq, +1.5 (it's quite pleasant but nothing that special, the charlotte can be better)
FCSp4, +1.5 (a very nice spin but there are imperfections here - she drops that leg down and takes some time to center the spin after the flying entrance, the last catch foot position is not the absolute best with that bent leg and slightly extra effort it visibly takes her to control it, nor the fastest)
StSq4, +2 (well done throughout but not the fastest or most masterful display of movements)
3Lutz+3Loop, +1.5 (really good, but as commendable as it is to see a difficult 3Loop combo, there have been better executed ones - Adam Rippon's 3Flip+3Loop for example had better rotation and flow on that second jump)
2Axel+3Toe, +1 (her axel isn't very good, but toeloop was the best I've ever seen her do; still could be better but it has improved)
3Flip+2Toe+2Loop, +1 (she's got the arms over the head, but there's a big lack of flow out on the last jump)
LSp4, +1.5 (sideways position not great, haircutter position not great, a good spin overall but there are much better out there)
3Lutz, +1.5 (very solid, not the most textbook you'll see though, I'd value a perfect takeoff and extra height more than arms over the head)
3Sal, +.5 (barely rotated, look at the spindly aspect on the takeoff)
3Flip, +.5 (she had a really noticeable tilt here, I was scared for her after she took off)
2Axel, +1 (a better axel than the one she did in combo, but not great, and she hesitates slightly on the landing)
CCoSp4, +1 (her positions are mostly not great, look at how the leg is bent and the body hunched in that sit position, her intermediate position doesn't have much of a bend and is questionable if that should even count as a difficult variation. The last position is the best but even there look at how effortful it is, her face looks like she is grinding her teeth as she pulls her leg up and holds the position, slightly traveling at the start)
That would put her technical score at 75.16 and I'd have her PCS at about 68, for a total of 143.16 for the performance. This is 15 points lower than what she got.
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I think this deserves a zero for just how little it matched the music, and I'm sure she did a turn after the music ended.
Agree with the last sentence.
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I think what's really glaring about the judging is Mikhail Kolyada's. No one can agree on him! One judge put him in 15th (as opposed to 8th) and another one put him in 16th. Yet another put him in 6th and a couple put him in 7th.
Similar things accorded with Keegan Messing and Vincent Zhou
Similar things accorded with Keegan Messing and Vincent Zhou
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Wow, Messing and Bychenko both got a 6th and a 21st.
Weirdly enough, the Australian judge was harshest on Kerry.
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Wow, Messing and Bychenko both got a 6th and a 21st.
Weirdly enough, the Australian judge was harshest on Kerry.
The Canadian judge wasn't that big on Messing and really didn't like Brezina or Bychenko. Loved Misha Ge, Han Yan and Cha.
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I’m what world world would Keegan Messing be judged to be 21rst. I don’t think the Japanese judge and I watched the same skater. Sure he fell but his spins, other jumps and program were great! I actually think he would have been higher if he skates later.
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https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?69973
All major posts on underrotation have been moved to a new thread. It is too big and complex a subject to fit in the judging anomalies thread. We are very excited to learn more.
All major posts on underrotation have been moved to a new thread. It is too big and complex a subject to fit in the judging anomalies thread. We are very excited to learn more.
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Indeed Doris. I have always wanted to learn more about pre -rotations in particular.
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...Nathan's PCS and everything of Vincent Zhou.
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Wow, Messing and Bychenko both got a 6th and a 21st.
Weirdly enough, the Australian judge was harshest on Kerry.
Australian judges are such hardbutts...I guarantee if you go back to when 6.0 and the nationalities were listed the lowest will be...from the Aussie judge.
Not sure if that's a good or bad thing!
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- Nov 30, 2017
That Chinese judge, Weiguang Chen should never be allowed to judge again. His scores were so extremely ridiculous, I don't even know where to start... 
USA judge pretty awful too.
I hate when judges overscore skaters from their countries and underscore others, it's ridiculous and so obvious. They don't even try to hide it, they don't even care, cause they know nothing will be done about it.
So unfair!
USA judge pretty awful too.
I hate when judges overscore skaters from their countries and underscore others, it's ridiculous and so obvious. They don't even try to hide it, they don't even care, cause they know nothing will be done about it.
So unfair!
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He's a smart judge. He knows that his scores will get thrown away so he judges up in order to keep the other judges higher marks.
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On the whole, the judging has been pretty good so far. The right athletes have earned the right medals, with little controversy (despite some close scores). I think it's unrealistic to expect judges not to favor their countrymen; that's why they diversify panels in the first place.
I have long suspected you are some ultra figure skating insider. I don't think you've ever posted even an iota of shade at any judging results or rules discussions in all 7,000+ posts.
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