2017_18 ISU Judging Anomalies | Page 17 | Golden Skate

2017_18 ISU Judging Anomalies

Tastetherainbow

Medalist
Joined
Feb 20, 2014

Meh, I see it as normal. The Chinese judge in pairs inflated S/H and held down S/M, and the German judge did the opposite. And every judge for their own in ice dance.

But that doesn't mean that is not a problem. I think as long as figure skating is represented by federations, there will be politicking - both within and outside the federation - and judging bias is just one of the consequences.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
The worst judging result so far has been in the Team Men's SP, with Patrick Chan and Nathen Chen getting held up.

Kolyada placing a spot higher than deserved in the Team LP and 2 spots higher than deserved in the individual event would be next in line.
 

epicdreamer

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
I've seen a couple of posts on social media about the Chinese judge for the Men's event being investigated. Does anyone have any more info? Tbh the Chinese and US judges scores were kind of out of whack in reference to their own skaters and where they put the top rivals, not surprised if its true.
 
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TryMeLater

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
I don't know if it was mentioned in the thread, but ISU Championships, GPs and Olympics has an ISU Officials Assessment Comity which checks the judges conduct as well as the scores given by each judge. If there is a deviation with a certain judge's score than the judges gets an error.
I don't know what is a "letter of criticism".
Feel free to read about it here.
 

Eclair

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
I've seen a couple of posts on social media about the Chinese judge for the Men's event being investigated. Does anyone have any more info? Tbh the Chinese and US judges scores were kind of out of whack in reference to their own skaters and where they put the top rivals, not surprised if its true.

I'd be interested to know if that's true or not, too. Would be really amusing if the Chinese judge was investigated, but the US judge was not. Not to mention with the whole block voting thing going on in ice dance...
 

TryMeLater

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
I'd be interested to know if that's true or not, too. Would be really amusing if the Chinese judge was investigated, but the US judge was not. Not to mention with the whole block voting thing going on in ice dance...

All judges are checked. If they have more then 6 errors then they may be called for an assessment. If they have 12+ errors per season they must be called for an assessment.
 

Metis

Shepherdess of the Teal Deer
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
He's a smart judge. He knows that his scores will get thrown away so he judges up in order to keep the other judges higher marks.

As someone who’s fluent in game theory, this is correct: the optimal choice for judges is to assign either the lowest or highest set of scores they possibly can without being flagged, knowing their marks will be the ones thrown out and thereby preserving a higher average. That this is the optimal move, however, means the system is broken.

I would love to be able to mess around and do a multivariate regression analysis of the men’s PCS marks, as I suspect there’s several things going on at once that lead to situations like Chen’s PCS in the free skate. (And it’s not his fault. It’s the system, not the skaters.) I even think it’s possible to prove PCS is just ordinals with a new coat of paint, but having an autoimmune disorder is a hard check on that. (In fairness, it would be difficult but not impossible to check for various correlations without simply capturing “well performed program scores well,” but yeah.) Regardless, the US judge who marked Chen... I want whatever he was on. Maybe he stole some of Hanyu’s painkillers? I could make a good faith case for the Performance mark, but not in the context of the rest of those numbers... that one is definitely one for the record books.
 

TryMeLater

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
As someone who’s fluent in game theory, this is correct: the optimal choice for judges is to assign either the lowest or highest set of scores they possibly can without being flagged, knowing their marks will be the ones thrown out and thereby preserving a higher average. That this is the optimal move, however, means the system is broken.

I would love to be able to mess around and do a multivariate regression analysis of the men’s PCS marks, as I suspect there’s several things going on at once that lead to situations like Chen’s PCS in the free skate. (And it’s not his fault. It’s the system, not the skaters.) I even think it’s possible to prove PCS is just ordinals with a new coat of paint, but having an autoimmune disorder is a hard check on that. (In fairness, it would be difficult but not impossible to check for various correlations without simply capturing “well performed program scores well,” but yeah.) Regardless, the US judge who marked Chen... I want whatever he was on. Maybe he stole some of Hanyu’s painkillers? I could make a good faith case for the Performance mark, but not in the context of the rest of those numbers... that one is definitely one for the record books.

I don't think that it can be manipulated that easy - A judge doesn't have an access to the other judges mark, which makes it quite difficult to control (unless you look at other judges score). It's quite a hard system to manipulate if you work at it alone (because unlike in 6.0 the high and the low get thrown out and there are too many numbers to keep up). The judge that was sanctioned had the protocol of the SP in the LP and tried to use those marks as a benchmark.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
^^^^Plus we learned that Meagan Duhamel wants to become an analyst/commentator after she retires :)

I’m not sure I really understand what “skatingscores” is getting at here? Lorrie Parker scored Vincent way lower in PCS than Yuzu. Like about 2 pts per component which seems about right? The rest is BV and GOE related and I’m not sure if I noticed any anomalies?

Maybe Lorrie could have separated Nathan and Yuzu’s PCS a bit but GOE is tied into the BV and Nathan getting a bunch of 2’s seems about right to me. I kind of think that “skatingscores” is a bit misleading the way they are looking at this. The BV is out of the judges hands and when someone throws six quads out there the GOE self inflates. 2’s on quads are worth more than 3’s on triples but there isn’t anything the judges can do about that.
 

Eclair

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
As someone who’s fluent in game theory, this is correct: the optimal choice for judges is to assign either the lowest or highest set of scores they possibly can without being flagged, knowing their marks will be the ones thrown out and thereby preserving a higher average. That this is the optimal move, however, means the system is broken.

I would love to be able to mess around and do a multivariate regression analysis of the men’s PCS marks, as I suspect there’s several things going on at once that lead to situations like Chen’s PCS in the free skate. (And it’s not his fault. It’s the system, not the skaters.) I even think it’s possible to prove PCS is just ordinals with a new coat of paint, but having an autoimmune disorder is a hard check on that. (In fairness, it would be difficult but not impossible to check for various correlations without simply capturing “well performed program scores well,” but yeah.) Regardless, the US judge who marked Chen... I want whatever he was on. Maybe he stole some of Hanyu’s painkillers? I could make a good faith case for the Performance mark, but not in the context of the rest of those numbers... that one is definitely one for the record books.

I rather think it shows that the Chinese judge is doing his job the dumbest way possible and has no clue how the judging system works. Just over inflating will lead to investigation and other judges looking at the scoresheet and see the obvious bias. He/She should have scored like the Canadian/ American or Russian judges do - slightly over score on PCS and over score only on about 3/4 of the elements in GOE, so that it's not as glaring, but still elevates the total scores.
I can't even thing about the possibly of Boyang loosing his 4th place finish because not only his fed has no politicking power, but they also sent a dumb judge, who did everything except for talking to another judge to invite an investigation ...
 

TryMeLater

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
^^^^Plus we learned that Meagan Duhamel wants to become an analyst/commentator after she retires :)

I’m not sure I really understand what “skatingscores” is getting at here? Lorrie Parker scored Vincent way lower in PCS than Yuzu. Like about 2 pts per component which seems about right? The rest is BV and GOE related and I’m not sure if I noticed an anomalies?

Maybe Lorrie could have separated Nathan and Yuzu’s PCS a bit but GOE is tied into the BV and Nathan getting a bunch of 2’s seems about right to me. I kind of think that “skatingscores” is a bit misleading the way they are looking at this. The BV is out of the judges hands and when someone throws six quads out there the GOE self inflates. 2’s on quads are worth more than 3’s on triples but there isn’t anything the judges can do about that.

I agree the "skatingscores" is misleading.
I think he should look at the median and average (of the GOE) for each element and then mark the outliers.
 
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