CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova | Page 12 | Golden Skate

CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova

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moriel

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None of Zagitova’s jumps are super beautiful or excellent to get +2 across the board, let alone +3. What I am trying to say is, her jump quality is ok but not so good to get all the GOE she is getting. They’re average in quality, with transitions in and out they’re still average, in the second half of the programs make it harder ok but she already got 10% bonus. Why even bonus in the GOE, that’s double the bonus.

GOE are not supposed to be generous on a skater just because they jump more difficult jumps in the second half. GOE are supposed to be about the quality regardless of the placement of the elements.

Well, her jumps check the bulletpoints for high goe...
- Unexpected / creative / difficult entry: this is true for most if not all of her jumps
- Clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element: again, applies to most of her jumps
- Varied position in the air / delay in rotation: whenever she does a tano or rippon
- Great height and/or distance: lets take your word and say this does not apply since her jumps are not excellent
- Superior extension on landing / creative exit: creative exit, she does that
- Superior flow in and out (and in-between in jump combinations / sequences): ok, again, lets take your word and consider this does not happen

So when clean, she easily checks 3-4 bullet points for pretty much all of her jumps which makes it a +2.
 

Ender

Match Penalty
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Well, her jumps check the bulletpoints for high goe...
- Unexpected / creative / difficult entry: this is true for most if not all of her jumps
- Clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element: again, applies to most of her jumps
- Varied position in the air / delay in rotation: whenever she does a tano or rippon
- Great height and/or distance: lets take your word and say this does not apply since her jumps are not excellent
- Superior extension on landing / creative exit: creative exit, she does that
- Superior flow in and out (and in-between in jump combinations / sequences): ok, again, lets take your word and consider this does not happen

So when clean, she easily checks 3-4 bullet points for pretty much all of her jumps which makes it a +2.
I know the math and the bullet but my biggest issue is the quality of those entries and exits are not taken into account.
 

moriel

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I know the math and the bullet but my biggest issue is the quality of those entries and exits are not taken into account.

Ummm very debatable (also, actually curious to see where she was getting +2/+3 across the board, because CoC it wasnt).
Imho, her jumps are judged more fairly than of many of her competitors, if anything.
 

mrrice

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Jul 9, 2014
^^^ It was after watching Maria Butyrskaya's SP at Worlds in 2000 that I went searching for another way to view figure skating. To hear him "Compare" her spiral to Michelle and Sarah was disgusting. He ruined the mood of the entire program by doing so. I guess it was a blessing in disguise because I found CBC and BESP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVt3I4IL18s
 

GGFan

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^^^ It was after watching Maria Butyrskaya's SP at Worlds in 2000 that I went searching for another way to view figure skating. To hear him "Compare" her spiral to Michelle and Sarah was disgusting. He ruined the mood of the entire program by doing so. I guess it was a blessing in disguise because I found CBC and BESP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVt3I4IL18s

Was it really disgusting? And I ask that sincerely. I just watched that entire program and they basically praise her for 98% of the time. Call her a fighter, say how they're rooting for her to do well, etc. Dick made that one comment. Figure skating is a comparative sport, so it's not like it came out of the blue.

I can completely understand identifying with a skater and not wanting to hear negative things said about her, but is there really that low of a bar for something to be disgusting? Commentators are allowed to have strong opinions. He is not passing himself off as a journalist. He just said, quite reasonably if you compare, that they had better spirals. Pretty run of the mill.
 

temadd

Final Flight
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Nov 19, 2015
I don't either.
First off, she is a fifteen year old girl. There is no excuse for criticizing a girl of her age that much for doing well. It's not like she murdered anybody or tried to commit treason or something. She skated well and in a way that would help her. It's what her coaches asked of her and it's what she delivered.
Secondly, I don't care what your opinion is, but to call yourself a professional commentator and then to say "there's nothing happening in the first two minutes might as well go to the bathroom or get popcorn" is degrading and unprofessional. Not only is there intricate choreography and non-jump elements, a skater is performing right now. If you don't like her layout, go talk to the people who made the rules that made that rewarding. Don't sit and say that she's not doing anything. Would you say that as a skater does, say a solo triple, a spin, step sequence, and choreo sequence in the first half? The only difference is one jump. And if you would, you've got a far greater problem.
Third of all, how on earth do these people want things to go? First they complain "there's too many jumps at the beginning of the program". So the ISU gives backloaded jumps a bonus. But now "everyone has similar layouts". Cue Alina Zagitova. And then "her program is too backloaded, it's too different". Make up your mind and stop criticizing a girl for doing something that will benefit her.

So, no, in my opinion, those comments were incredibly rude, unprofessional, and uncalled for. I am disgusted with the CBC commentators right now.

There was barely any criticism and it barely came off as criticism to me. They were extremely complimentary of her abilities and said she did a great job handling the 1st half. There was one comment regarding the balance of the program but they didn't criticize HER at all. In fact they praised her a lot.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
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:clap:

But heck it's Uncle Dick, he gets a pass, but be damned anyone else criticize a system, or use humour as a vehicle in their broadcast.


Dick was allowed to be a bully for so long by the end of his career that's all he was a lot of the time. He belittled Peggy at every turn. I'd have clocked him if I was her. The only one I remember actually not backing down to Dick's demand that everyone agree with him all the time was Kurt Browning, who respectfully disagreed with him and even during one discussion told Dick that he wasn't going to change his opinion.
 

mrrice

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Was it really disgusting? And I ask that sincerely. I just watched that entire program and they basically praise her for 98% of the time. Call her a fighter, say how they're rooting for her to do well, etc. Dick made that one comment. Figure skating is a comparative sport, so it's not like it came out of the blue.

I can completely understand identifying with a skater and not wanting to hear negative things said about her, but is there really that low of a bar for something to be disgusting? Commentators are allowed to have strong opinions. He is not passing himself off as a journalist. He just said, quite reasonably if you compare, that they had better spirals. Pretty run of the mill.

This is a good question and I'm going to answer it from a personal angle. If I'm competing in a solo dance competition, something I did quite often when I was younger. The LAST thing I want to hear is how someone had better turns, or higher kicks, leaps, or expression!! If that's how Mr. Button feels, he can tell them backstage. Things like that happen all the time. It's not something an "Impartial" observer says about the defending world champion especially since she won the SP by quite a bit that day.

It's the same reason I have a hard listening to Tara Lipinski. I don't care what her "Opinion" of a skater happens to be. Her job is to tell us what the skater is doing on the ice and how she thinks the program will score. Not to compare one skater to another.......While they're performing!!!! Once a skater leaves the ice and is waiting for their scores, that's the time to say "Her spirals weren't as good as the other skaters, so she may not score as high." Does that make sense?
 

4everchan

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Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
This is a good question and I'm going to answer it from a personal angle. If I'm competing in a solo dance competition, something I did quite often when I was younger. The LAST thing I want to hear is how someone had better turns, or higher kicks, leaps, or expression!! If that's how Mr. Button feels, he can tell them backstage. Things like that happen all the time. It's not something an "Impartial" observer says about the defending world champion especially since won the SP by quite a bit that day.

It's the same reason I have a hard listening to Tara Lipinski. I don't care what her "Opinion" of a skater happens to be. Her job is to tell us what the skater is doing on the ice and how she thinks the program will score. Not to compare a skater to another.......While they're performing!!!! Once a skater leaves the ice and is waiting for their scores, that's the time to say "Her spirals weren't as good as the other skaters, so she may not score as high." Does that make sense?

well.. they were praising every single details of her skating.. even her dress and packaging etc... and he didn't say her spirals weren't good.. he said they are not as good as some other skaters... which is 100% true. I think, since you were Maria B's bf at the time, you took it too harshly ;) :ghug:
 

Sugarpova

#EmpressAirlines #SinKatsapologist
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Feb 19, 2015
didn't we have the exact same thread yesterday?
this basically:laugh:


its their opinion & obv they're free to express it

we can watch OR not
Basically like TSL
everyone is biased

I prefer watching with Yulia & Adian now:biggrin:
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
this basically:laugh:


its their opinion & obv they're free to express it

we can watch OR not
Basically like TSL
everyone is biased

I prefer watching with Yulia & Adian now:biggrin:

Yep, they are very good.
And one of the very few commentators who dont bla bla bla bla cha cha cha during performances
 

Hevari

Drivers start your engines!
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Jan 20, 2014
What people want is jumps throughout the program, not only in one section. That's why the backloading bonus was put in place to begin with. It was a poorly implemented rule, especially when they put into the SP. I've predicted ever since 2012 that it would become a problem. Getting a bonus on all your jumps in the SP after skating for only 1 minute and 25 seconds, and doing only a couple technical elements in that time, makes no sense.

The thing I've been pushing for is going back to 8 required elements in the SP (multiple step sequences but each one being shorter than the current boring step sequences we have) and only giving a bonus to a jump that is at least the 6th required element of the program, and also never the first jump element. And I would give a mandatory 1 point deduction if the first three technical elements are all jumps.

For the Long Program, the bonus should be moved to the 60% mark of the program rather than the 50% mark, and the first two jump elements of a Long Program should never receive the bonus. If Zagitova or anyone else wants to fully backload all of their jumps under those rules (just as anyone currently can fully frontload), then they can feel free to. But of course they wouldn't. The only reason they do it now is exactly because of the rule in place.

Good idea! Don't know why some users here are mocking...
 

Hevari

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Again generalization, you'd better say that some people want....and especially those who are really scared that the Russians use this and have an advantage because while the GOE is still subjective and even the URs can be subjective, the bonus is not :biggrin:

Why are you mocking? Bladesof passion suggested a good idea for obliging skaters making their programs more balanced and you are mocking and trying to sound like todays rules are perfect and have no bugs that need to be fixed...
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Why are you mocking? Bladesof passion suggested a good idea for obliging skaters making their programs more balanced and you are mocking and trying to sound like todays rules are perfect and have no bugs that need to be fixed...

Well, tbh some people like today's rules, and think it is utterly ridiculous to try changing them because of 1-2 skaters.
When backloading becomes a problem (aka most top ladies with less than 2 jumps in first half), then we talk.
 

Shayuki

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Nov 2, 2013
Why are you mocking? Bladesof passion suggested a good idea for obliging skaters making their programs more balanced and you are mocking and trying to sound like todays rules are perfect and have no bugs that need to be fixed...

"Balanced"... depends on the choreo.

What his suggestion would do is just make every skater use the exact same layout because just about everyone could replicate it. It'd destroy all variety. Now we actually get several different formats - Not everyone backloads every jump, after all. With those changes, there never would be anything done differently, or at least far more rarely.

Fully backloaded programs done properly are my favorite programs. They seriously aren't common enough to be a problem~
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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I’d be curious to know the percentage of falls and errors that take place in the second half. I’m actually starting to enjoy the programs that are backloaded more and more TBH. I’m already nervous about the jumps for skaters but it’s intensified even more when they start putting combos in the back half and my heart pumps as the jumps start to come one after the other later and later. It’s intense and one error could disrupt the whole thing.

Let’s discuss Rika’s FS for a second which by the way I love. Objectively speaking there is a pretty big choreographic imbalance in the beginning due to the set up for the two 3a’s. Lots of gliding and a very slow build up and it’s rather enjoyable TBH but the amount of balance between elements and the time she spends on them is pretty significant. Who is to say that this imbalance is ok and others are not. To me that should be at the judges discretion. I like seeing a variance of choreography and don’t like the idea of the FS having rules that will restrict advantages gained thru athletic prowess or in Rika’s case an artistic opportunity to make the program breathe. We can’t forget that not every skater wants to get their points via pretty gliding though and nor should they have to. Some want to come out and suck the wind out of an arena with blistering intensity. I see no reason why both shouldn’t be rewarded.
 

Mista Ekko

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Joined
Nov 9, 2009
comments were incredibly rude, unprofessional, and uncalled for. I am disgusted with the CBC commentators right now.

I think your'e being a tad sensitive, sure they could've been more excited about her
but they praised her a lot but also criticised the layout,
I agree with them, It's not a balanced program and it should reflect somehow in the score,
But it doesn't atm so can't blame her coaches ;)

but to call yourself a professional commentator and then to say "there's nothing happening in the first two minutes might as well go to the bathroom or get popcorn" is degrading and unprofessional

Well, Everybody watching her it the Olympics are gonna be thinking something like that anyways

There are no jumps in the first half, People get excited over the jumps mostly,
The team can at least own it, It's their strategy.
 
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