CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova

Grin · Nov 9, 2017

GGFan said:
:confused2: Are we talking shoot as in a gun?? If so we have definitely jumped the shark here. There is no way a few words and an assassination are comparable. That should be obvious and the loss of perspective here just shows how far these fan wars have gone.

It's not about comparing assassination and a few words. It's about people who write the same comments no matter what the thread is about.
For me it's like
Thread:Alina won gold at her debut
Comments :eek:

verscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
Thread:CBC commentator insulted Alina
Comments :eek:

verscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
Thread:CBC commentator shot down Alina
Comments :eek:

verscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
Thread:Alina has survived and now training again
Comments :eek:

verscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
And so on.
Hope there are no bots on this forum.

Miss Ice · Nov 9, 2017

largeman said:
I understand what you are saying regarding definition of take-off foot, pre-rotation, etc. Let's not dwell on definitions but focus on the takeoff technique and the jump revolutions actually completed in the air -

3T example #1
3T example #2

Do you think the takeoffs of these two jumps are the same?

THIS needs more attention. :clap:

OS · Nov 9, 2017

Grin said:
It's not about comparing assassination and a few words. It's about people who write the same comments no matter what the thread is about.
For me it's like
Thread:Alina won gold at her debut
Commentsverscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
Thread:CBC commentator insulted Alina
Commentsverscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
Thread:CBC commentator shot down Alina
Commentsverscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
Thread:Alina has survived and now training again
Commentsverscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
And so on.
Hope there are no bots on this forum.

Well it takes two to tango bot number 64:

It is not in the rules.
It is balanced.
It is difficult.
You don't know what you are talking about
Anti Russiaaaaa....
Canadian Commentator sucks.
So unprofessional.
Overscore only ever happen to Kaetlyn
...Blah blah blah...

Funny thing is I have yet come across anyone who can defend her incredible rise in PCS with a junior program that rose from 62 in juniors a few months ago to 68 in seniors against a stronger field, with any credibility other than it is ballet, I like it, and it is difficult. All have nothing to do with PCS criteria or history.

Many performed close to their career bests at that competition, but none of them received better PCS than before which they deserve, except Marin rise from 60 to 64, but that was because she has been lowballed in her previous outing with a dismal 60 PCS for a clean skate and had ALWAYS beaten Alina in the juniors scene in PCS around 62 PCS - with her Junior fs programs just a few months ago. Here a few months later, she put out a new maturer and more challenging program and skated fine. Does that mean had she brought her Junior program when she beaten Alina with the same program and not bother with a new program, she would have beaten Alina? The mind does wonder the mystery of PCS marking... it is like suddenly giving out a 3A reward in TES without them have to deliver one when they had the exactly the same layout as before, while everyone had upgraded theirs and performed with great GOEs.

shine · Nov 9, 2017

Grin said:
It's not about comparing assassination and a few words. It's about people who write the same comments no matter what the thread is about.
For me it's like
Thread:Alina won gold at her debut
Commentsverscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
Thread:CBC commentator insulted Alina
Commentsverscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
Thread:CBC commentator shot down Alina
Commentsverscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
Thread:Alina has survived and now training again
Commentsverscored PCS, backloading, flawed tech!
And so on.
Hope there are no bots on this forum.

Can you clarify first what you meant by "shooting her down"?

prettykeys · Nov 9, 2017

Kind of cringey and embarrassing to hear David Pelletier say "...in the first 2 minutes of this program, not much is happening (as far as jumping)..." There is more to figure skating than just jumping. Come on, you know this, Mr. Pelletier (oh but how I am reminded of the sparse FP you had with Jamie Sale in 2002, jumps/elements, posing, and not much in between compared to the beauty of Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze's programs.)

Alina Zagitova's choreographers also selected a musical piece that really picks up in the second half of the program, so the many jumping passes actually go with the music. Well done; beautiful! :clap:

If this is how someone wants to construct a backloaded program (and it's the IJS's fault for its scoring system), then I have absolutely zero complaints. The one change I might want is for the 2A to happen early on, because it's a smooth, softer jump--would go with the mood.

Compare this to Miki Ando's 2010-2011 ugly (IMO) Morozov program where it was backloaded, 2 jumping passes in the front and 5 jumps in the back with an OBVIOUS resting period demarcating the two. Yuck.

Sam-Skwantch · Nov 9, 2017

OS said:
Funny thing is I have yet come across anyone who can defend her incredible rise in PCS with a junior program that rose from 62 in juniors a few months ago to 68 in seniors against a stronger field, with any credibility other than it is ballet, I like it, and it is difficult. All have nothing to do with PCS criteria or history.

Could it be the ChSeq and added time. Don't juniors have shorter programs and no ChSeq

prettykeys · Nov 9, 2017

liv said:
Oh dear. So funny to read all this over some off the cuff remarks by Kurt. Watching Kurt for years you realize he was making a joke about Alina not doing anything in the first half... he is awed and impressed. It is his kind of humour and as soon as he said it I laughed... but knew people watching it later who haven't listened to him for years would probably be annoyed and offended...Relax people. And over the course of the broadcast he mentioned that many of the female skaters UR... not just Alina, not just "the Russians," but Wakaba, Mai... whoever they were showing on the broadcast...and then he decided that most them were prone to it and was happy they were finally being called....and he didn't say every jump, just some of them...

David Pelletier is another story. He is always very negative about skaters... many skaters...all skaters. I hate it when he joins CBC for commentary... so I"ll agree with criticism about his commentary. And he talks way too much... I really dislike listening to him.

Spot on. Kurt Browning is a mild-mannered, diplomatic commentator. He finds something nice to say about anybody; even when he critiques he is kind. He loves figure skating, and it will come across in the way he talks about it, and skaters. I remember one time a fellow commentator in broadcast (I don't remember, was it Tracy Wilson?) was really laying it on and picking apart Mao Asada, and Kurt interjected, "I'm sorry, but Mao is awesome."

I'm sure many will find things they disagree about with Kurt, but I don't think I have ever heard him say something out of jealousy or mean-spiritedness.

Grin · Nov 9, 2017

OS said:
Well it takes two to tango bot number 64:

It is not in the rules.
It is balanced.
It is difficult.
You don't know what you are talking about
Anti Russiaaaaa....
Canadian Commentator sucks.
So unprofessional.
Overscore only ever happen to Kaetlyn
...Blah blah blah...

Funny thing is I have yet come across anyone who can defend her incredible rise in PCS with a junior program that rose from 62 in juniors a few months ago to 68 in seniors against a stronger field, with any credibility other than it is ballet, I like it, and it is difficult. All have nothing to do with PCS criteria or history.

Many performed close to their career bests at that competition, but none of them received better PCS than before which they deserve, except Marin rise from 60 to 64, but that was because she has been lowballed in her previous outing with a dismal 60 PCS for a clean skate and had ALWAYS beaten Alina in the juniors scene in PCS around 62 PCS - with her Junior fs programs just a few months ago. Here a few months later, she put out a new maturer and more challenging program and skated fine. Does that mean had she brought her Junior program when she beaten Alina with the same program and not bother with a new program, she would have beaten Alina? The mind does wonder the mystery of PCS marking... it is like suddenly giving out a 3A reward in TES without them have to deliver one when they had the exactly the same layout as before, while everyone had upgraded theirs and performed with great GOEs.

This is simple. No way any skater ever (no matter how bad he is) deserve that sort of comments from a professional commentator. This is not about backloading or PCS. It is about inappropriate behavior from a commentator who made toilet jokes and other bs about a skater on air. He was rude. Is it so hard to admit?

Grin · Nov 9, 2017

shine said:
Can you clarify first what you meant by "shooting her down"?

I ment is anything that a Canadian commentator can say about Alina that would be condemned by some people on this forum? I doubt it

gravy · Nov 9, 2017

largeman said:
I understand what you are saying regarding definition of take-off foot, pre-rotation, etc. Let's not dwell on definitions but focus on the takeoff technique and the jump revolutions actually completed in the air -

3T example #1
3T example #2

Do you think the takeoffs of these two jumps are the same?

LOL, I always thought the pre-rotation arguments about Medvedeva were so pedantic and tired but this side-by-side comparison with Yuna is so damning... Evgenia completes an entire rotation on her vaulting leg before leaving the ice. Pre-rotation is normal in jumps but this goes beyond even the standard toe axel flaw.

Sam-Skwantch · Nov 9, 2017

gravy said:
LOL, I always thought the pre-rotation arguments about Medvedeva were so pedantic and tired but this side-by-side comparison with Yuna is so damning... Evgenia completes an entire rotation on her vaulting leg before leaving the ice. Pre-rotation is normal in jumps but this goes beyond even the standard toe axel flaw.

That's a really good angle too on Zhenia's. #obvious

Leonardo · Nov 9, 2017

gravy said:
LOL, I always thought the pre-rotation arguments about Medvedeva were so pedantic and tired but this side-by-side comparison with Yuna is so damning... Evgenia completes an entire rotation on her vaulting leg before leaving the ice. Pre-rotation is normal in jumps but this goes beyond even the standard toe axel flaw.

Yes indeed. I hate over complaining about jumps, but this is a full rotation before leaving the ice. The problem is she receives +2 and +3s for THAT.

Bluediamonds09 · Nov 10, 2017

I have no problem with Alina’s jumps. Or her spins. Or her costume. Nothing wrong with any of those things, imo. My criticism is about her choppy, hunched, rushed skating. That’s all. CBC really should’ve focused on THAT side of her skating and tried their absolute hardest to sound sincere and kind while doing it.

moriel · Nov 10, 2017

We could write a bot that talks like a regular FS fan =D
That would actually take care of most of the discussions, since we wouldnt need to post stuff anymore, just read the botchat.

ks777 · Nov 10, 2017

I thought their comments were spot on. There isn't much going on in the first half. She is skating really slow in the first half, trying to conserve energy for her jumps.. Really boring. Her skating skills aren't as good as the score she gets. Wakaba is so much faster with much better skating skills.

Manitou · Nov 10, 2017

This is simple. No way any skater ever (no matter how bad he is) deserve that sort of comments from a professional commentator. This is not about backloading or PCS. It is about inappropriate behavior from a commentator who made toilet jokes and other bs about a skater on air. He was rude. Is it so hard to admit?

I like Zagitova and I am not a very big fan of Canadian media, but people complaining that we should not overly critique a child because of her age make no sense. Alina is underage, true, but she is competing against seniors on the highest level, so she must conform to the same rules as everybody else on her level. And everybody is exposed to the same critique, including most harsh and possibly undeserved. People watch, people talk and people say different things. That's the reality of anybody exposed to publicity.
If some PC police wants to protect her from critique that may "hurt the child" then keep her in juniors.
I also despise PC and I think that TV commentary should be funny and with some spice. Even crossing some minor borders occasionally. PC is a poison and cancer of today's culture and I support everything that can bring it down.

TheCzar · Nov 10, 2017

Can we just be clear that NOBODY is blaming Alina? Or if they are, then they should stop. Blame the TEAM. We all know its a flagrant exploitation of the IJS system, but it's not illegal. It's just frustrating. The Tutberidze tactic isn't new but it's a lot more glaring now because it's what all of her skaters are doing and what it does is rob these children of a possibly longer career in the sport for a short blimp of a golden career. They have NO interest in investing on a Carolina Kostner because if they don't win medals now, then they won't for another couple of generations.

Whatever Zagitova, or Tsurskaya is doing on the ice is something their coaches and their team are giving them to do. With Medvedeva, it's a bit different because she's older and technically has a sound mind to change her skating if she wanted to- for the better. However, she's seeing that whatever crap she puts out on the ice the judges will eat up regardless, so why should she change it? There's no incentive for change or development in skating anymore because that's not on the agenda both for the judges and the Russians. We can wax nostalgia all we want in the days were it takes Yu Na Kim a pivotal year to be the world's no.1, or Mao Asada to land three triple axels to be taken seriously as athlete and a legend in the sport. Or that Michelle went through a lifetime's worth of programs and self-discovery to make not winning the OGM a mere footnote on an illustrious career. No. If you aren't backloading, or the judges darling, or have a tano with every jump, or pantomiming worse than Mariah Carey at New Year's Eve- then you do not have what it takes to be on the podium.

Eclair · Nov 10, 2017

I'm not even blaming the Alina's Team, I'm blaming the judges for their judging.

yyyskate · Nov 10, 2017

some discussion in US men's thread somehow involved Zagi. I think perhaps it is relevant to the discussion in this thread, so post here

Yuna's 2006 world junior champion SP(Roxanne Tango) is exactly the same SP program Yuna used in her 2006 Skate Canada senior debut (comparable to Zagi's same Don Quixote FS from junior to senior debut situation)

Here is Yuna's (same SP, both clean)
2006 junior world TES 35.54 PCS 25.32
2006 SC TES 37.84 PCS 24.84

here is Zagi's (same FS, both clean)
2017 junior world TES 75.81 PCS 62.21
2017 COC senior debut TES 76.09 pCS 68.35

You may also wanna check other senior debut lady's PCS.

I think Zagi's rise in PCS is an anomaly.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 10, 2017

yyyskate said:
I think Zagi's rise in PCS is an anomaly.

So your argument is that reputation judging is a good thing. A skater's PCS marks should be based solely on what they earned previously and not how other skaters in the same event are scored.

CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova

Grin

Miss Ice

Let the sky fall~

OS

Sedated by Modonium

shine

prettykeys

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

prettykeys

Grin

Grin

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Leonardo

Bluediamonds09

moriel

ks777

Manitou

TheCzar

Eclair

yyyskate

drivingmissdaisy

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