CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova

OS · Nov 8, 2017

Gosh... All these attention should ensure bigger interests to the Canada broadcast world wide... particular from Russia. I hope they get plenty of rubles from their international ads revenue for doing such a good job! Russia can always protest by... take a bathroom break or something... fair is fair.

Keep it up CBC!! :popcorn:

sailormoon · Nov 8, 2017

The CBC generally does good figure skating commentaries and I like the female commentator who was on the World Team Trophy broadcast recently. But male commentators are prone to make intelligent or sarcastic comments and he was critical of the backloading. Alina's free program started off as a junior program in the JGP events in the last season and it's still good enough at the senior level, which is amazing. It may take time for Zagitova to be fully accepted as a senior skater who could win an Olympic medal.

slider11 · Nov 8, 2017

Kurt Browning definitely has a sarastic edge and is a home country fan. But he is knowledgable and, frankly, that bias is seen to some degree with all commentators. Canadian fans at major events are some of the most knowledgable and respectful to all skaters. And I'm not Canadian.

karne · Nov 8, 2017

Again, there is a difference between criticism and being nasty.

Criticism would be something like "I understand why she's doing it, but I feel it makes her program look unbalanced".

Nasty is "You can go to the bathroom because nothing is happening for two minutes."

I have always, always hated the "bathroom break" remarks, no matter who has said them, no matter what their so-called justification is. Every skater that we see at these comps is worthy of our attention. Nobody deserves to be called a bathroom break, no matter how big or how little their country.

The people who make the "bathroom break" remarks are in the same group as the snobs that only come to a competition for the last two groups. It's the same level of utter disrespect.

Eclair · Nov 8, 2017

Viiktoruu said:
It does have the left foot in the ice - it's a toe pick assisted jump, but the foot which has the toe pick in the ice to ensure takeoff is NOT the takeoff foot. It is not the direction of the blade of the LEFT foot that is considered when counting rotations, but the right one. Apply the opposite logic and freeze frame other skaters (and I mean really famous ones - Yuna, Yuzu - technical masters) and tell me their takeoff is not the same? Or are they all underrotated all the time??

The toe loop is a jump with the takeoff and landing on the backward outside edge of the SAME foot. That's literally the definition.

Rotation or pre-rotation are determined from the beginning of take-off. This is the moment the toe pick hits the ice and the takeoff leg (here - the RIGHT one) goes into the air. The picture shows the incorrect moment of takeoff because it shows the takeoff from the view of the foot that's not even the takeoff foot - so you cannot determine a so-called "pre-rotation" (as you falsely call it here) from that picture :dumb:

I don't care what you call take-off foot or not, your point was that the picture didn't show a toe-loop, because the wrong foot is leaving the ice but it certainly shows a toe-loop!

of course if you look at the left foot of Yuna's or Elizaveta's or Plushenko's or Yuzuru's frame-by frame in a toe-loop, there is a HUGE difference than what was shown in this video. I'm not linking you any video, you go and look that up by yourself.

shine · Nov 8, 2017

Seren said:
I feel like I've just walked into the wild, wild west of figure skating...

The CBC comments were not mean spirited. They were legitimate critiques. There are things it's not appropriate to do- it's not appropriate to make negative comments about a skater as a person, or criticize their appearance, weight, etc. But if a skater is going to skate in Senior ladies they have to be prepared for criticism on their performance. Most of what the commentators said about her was positive, but they pointed out some valid concerns.

Personally, I don't particularly care about one backloaded program. What I care about is what it means for skating. Is this all we are going to see 10 years down the line? Is this good or bad for the sport (I would argue it's a bad thing for the sport for a number of reasons but it doesn't really matter what I think). Are we going to ignore certain things and prop up others. I think that is the heart of what the commentators were getting at. They aren't really critiquing Alina- they are criticizing the system that rewards backloaded, uneven programs (love it or hate it).

I believe that's what many siding with the criticism have in mind as we are seeing a worrisome trend in this flawed judging system. You can't help feeling that way when you truly love and care about figure skating, the sport and the art. Yet some would always narrow-mindedly try to twist it into a narrative of N.A. vs Russia, or a stand-alone case of bashing your favourite's main rivals to prop up your own favourite. Maybe to them, that's all there is to figure skating.

NanaPat · Nov 8, 2017

Mathman said:
I am pretty sure the ISU is tickled to death to have anyone broadcasting skating and paying the ISU for the privilege.

They're also probably thrilled that anyone is talking about it, whether positively or negatively.

alskling · Nov 8, 2017

OS said:
Gosh... All these attention should ensure bigger interests to the Canada broadcast world wide... particular from Russia. I hope they get plenty of rubles from their international ads revenue for doing such a good job! Russia can always protest by... take a bathroom break or something... fair is fair.

Keep it up CBC!!

Conspiracy...rubles....Trump....Russian hackers....doping...UFO....Mermaids...Evil Asylum... Did I miss something? :hopelessness:

Icey · Nov 8, 2017

JayW said:
I was watching the CBC video of Alina Zagitova at CoC. The comments seem quite harsh from CBC. I don't think Alina deserves such criticizing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQTOoSD_kQ

I didn't interpret them as being directed at her, but the system .

Grin · Nov 9, 2017

I wonder if a Canadian commentator shoots her down during her performance how many people on this forum will say that it was a protest against the system, Eteri is to blame, backloading should affect PCS and so on

GGFan · Nov 9, 2017

Grin said:
I wonder if a Canadian commentator shoots her down during her performance how many people on this forum will say that it was a protest against the system, Eteri is to blame, backloading should affect PCS and so on

:confused2: Are we talking shoot as in a gun?? If so we have definitely jumped the shark here. There is no way a few words and an assassination are comparable. That should be obvious and the loss of perspective here just shows how far these fan wars have gone.

OS · Nov 9, 2017

alskling said:
Conspiracy...rubles....Trump....Russian hackers....doping...UFO....Mermaids...Evil Asylum... Did I miss something? :hopelessness:

Except these are not exactly false and all are subject to authoritative investigation eventually. Where did you get mermaids? You forgot fairies, druids, antis, toilet breaks, diplomatic kettles, but hey these were all from yesterdays. Don't dwell on the past, look forward to the future. Moving along... :drama:

sinnerspinner · Nov 9, 2017

Blades of Passion said:
Evgenia is usually 1/4 turn short on all of her jump combos (which is just "normal" these days) and last season she was more than 1/4 short on all the 3S+3T combos but never got called. Her 3S+3T is looking better this season but the overall technique issue should play more into the GOE scores and instead she just gets a minimum of +2 GOE on all of her jumps, with many +3's. The other issue is how the calls are being made: many skaters who display better jump technique and are not more than 1/4 short get called for their jumps, while the pre-rotated technique jumps that aren't better rotated, or are actually less rotated, rarely get called.

Alina isn't "following the rules". There are standards for choreography that have have been around for a long time and this is supposed to be part of the judging. Just because there is a rule that any backloaded jump gets a bonus, it doesn't mean it's correct to choreograph a program like that. Many people feel the choreography is being hurt and as such she SHOULD lose points within the PCS when evaluating the programs.

Still, no rule against it. Sge was in the beat, she even put in a 3lz3loop, her jumps matched the crescendo in the music.

There was a lot of choreography in her program. In fact, it was arguably choreographed to death bc she didnt hold her ina bauers, extensions could arguably be better, etc.

Ive never seen or heard of a rule that says jumpers cant completely backload, jumps must be evenly divided in the program, or anything like that. Theres also no rule saying only. evgenia and alina can 100% backload.

Even if it did hurt the artistry, once again alina didnt make the rules. She imo shouldnt be punished artistically for what the cop encourages technically.

Many programs are unbalanced with their front loading. If front and back loading are issues, isu has power to dictate when skaters jump. Is the problem the backloading or bc certain people use it to their advantage, rack up points, and win?

One of the commentators said she was taking advantage of the system. Um, yes, thats the point- to rack up more points than your competitors.

Im a casual figure viewer. I couldnt see this happening in any other sports. "Simone Biles knows how to work the system-and win-so maybe the judges can take a little off the top *wink wink*

I guess i have to do a disclosure. Zagitova is not one of my favs. My favs are from years past. My current favs most likely wont go to the olympics anyway. One of them may quietly retire. *shrug*

Eclair · Nov 9, 2017

again to all people saying there is no rule against backloading, yeah well there is no rule against skating with your socks on your head, or skating with two skates as gloves on your hands.

Just because there is no rule against it, doesn't mean that it isn't a bad idea and won't get you high PCS.

Simone Biles didn't put all her elements in one half of her program and only did dance moves in the other half.

moriel · Nov 9, 2017

Eclair said:
again to all people saying there is no rule against backloading, yeah well there is no rule against skating with your socks on your head, or skating with two skates as gloves on your hands.

Just because there is no rule against it, doesn't mean that it isn't a bad idea and won't get you high PCS.

Simone Biles didn't put all her elements in one half of her program and only did dance moves in the other half.

Well, and why backloading should be bad again?
Many people here think that backloading is not a bad thing by default. Just because you dont like it, that doesnt mean it is bad.

largeman · Nov 9, 2017

Viiktoruu said:
It does have the left foot in the ice - it's a toe pick assisted jump, but the foot which has the toe pick in the ice to ensure takeoff is NOT the takeoff foot. It is not the direction of the blade of the LEFT foot that is considered when counting rotations, but the right one. Apply the opposite logic and freeze frame other skaters (and I mean really famous ones - Yuna, Yuzu - technical masters) and tell me their takeoff is not the same? Or are they all underrotated all the time??

The toe loop is a jump with the takeoff and landing on the backward outside edge of the SAME foot. That's literally the definition.

Rotation or pre-rotation are determined from the beginning of take-off. This is the moment the toe pick hits the ice and the takeoff leg (here - the RIGHT one) goes into the air. The picture shows the incorrect moment of takeoff because it shows the takeoff from the view of the foot that's not even the takeoff foot - so you cannot determine a so-called "pre-rotation" (as you falsely call it here) from that picture :dumb:

I understand what you are saying regarding definition of take-off foot, pre-rotation, etc. Let's not dwell on definitions but focus on the takeoff technique and the jump revolutions actually completed in the air -

3T example #1
3T example #2

Do you think the takeoffs of these two jumps are the same?

Eclair · Nov 9, 2017

moriel said:
Well, and why backloading should be bad again?
Many people here think that backloading is not a bad thing by default. Just because you dont like it, that doesnt mean it is bad.

So why should skating with a sock on your head be bad again? No rule against it, uniqueness and creativity in costuming is welcomed and if it fits the theme of the music, why not?

Well, because it's ALWAYS BEEN considered to be bad. To prevent skaters placing ALL their jumps in the first half is the REASON for the second half bonus. The thought behind it, is that jumps more or less evenly spread throughout the program is considered a balanced program. They didn't want skaters to put all their jumps in one half of the program, thus the rule.

TerpsichoreFS · Nov 9, 2017

largeman said:
I understand what you are saying regarding definition of take-off foot, pre-rotation, etc. Let's not dwell on definitions but focus on the takeoff technique and the jump revolutions actually completed in the air -

3T example #1
3T example #2

Do you think the takeoffs of these two jumps are the same?

Wow... I never realized. Ouch

TheCzar · Nov 9, 2017

Spirals for Miles said:
Although I agree with some of your opinions on inflation, I would like to ask you to stop with the inflation names.
How do you know if "that girl is just fine thank you" [sic]. She has a name, it's Alina Ilnazova Zagitova. The "Tutberidze tactic" is perfectly legal, whether you like it or not. Ms. Tutberidze did not ask for the opinion of GoldenSkate posters. Change doesn't need to come just because fans don't like what's happening. If David Lease goes on NBC, I'll be cancelling my TV subscription out of disgust.

Okay Norma Rae. :rolleye:

icybear · Nov 9, 2017

Oh I cant wait for Trophee de france when Osmond competes with Alina. The salt and digs will be some of CBC finest commentary :rofl:

CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova

OS

Sedated by Modonium

sailormoon

slider11

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Eclair

shine

NanaPat

alskling

Icey

Grin

GGFan

OS

Sedated by Modonium

sinnerspinner

Eclair

moriel

largeman

choice beef

Eclair

TerpsichoreFS

Marin Honda's skating skills

TheCzar

icybear

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