2017 GP Internationaux de France Mens SP | Page 31 | Golden Skate

2017 GP Internationaux de France Mens SP

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
There seems to be no rhyme or reason whatsoever to your opinions. You trash everyone who doesn't fit your extremely narrow definition of artistry but yet you like Samarin, one of the emptiest and least artistic skaters in the men's discipline? What?

My definition of artistry isn't narrow, hence why I DO like different programs, entirely independent of the person performing it, and why I "trash" very overscored programs regardless of who the program comes from.

But, LOL, where did I call Samarin a great or even good artist in that post?!? I said he was undermarked technically and he improved his presentation since his last Grand Prix event. With how quickly he is showing improvement, he seems like someone who could become a big force on the competitive scene. I highly disagree he is one of the "emptiest and least artistic skaters", based upon the performance he just gave. He was showing a great amount of energy and more attention to usage of his limbs than what some of the other competitors are doing.

I just reviewed his 4Lutz and it appears exactly 1/4 short. Not the best technique on the jump, but the panel not giving benefit of the doubt here seems like they are marking him down just for being a newbie.
 

rabbit1234

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
My definition of artistry isn't narrow, hence why I DO like different programs, entirely independent of the person performing it, and why I "trash" very overscored programs regardless of who the program comes from.

But, LOL, where did I call Samarin a great or even good artist in that post?!? I said he was undermarked technically and he improved his presentation since his last Grand Prix event. With how quickly he is showing improvement, he seems like someone who could become a big force on the competitive scene. I highly disagree he is one of the "emptiest and least artistic skaters", based upon the performance he just gave. He was showing a great amount of energy and more attention to usage of his limbs than what some of the other competitors are doing.

I just reviewed his 4Lutz and it appears exactly 1/4 short. Not the best technique on the jump, but the panel not giving benefit of the doubt here seems like they are marking him down just for being a newbie.

Is that moonlight sonata as ok as art?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I'm not ready to be a member of the Church of Lord Samarin. But I do like the guy. He does seem really hungry and eager to improve. And his jumps are very nice.
 

puremagic

-
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
I'm not ready to be a member of the Church of Lord Samarin. But I do like the guy. He does seem really hungry and eager to improve. And his jumps are very nice.

It will come with time. When you decide to join, don't forget to PM me. I'll send you by mail one of my logo t-shirts with his photo! :agree:
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
It will come with time. When you decide to join, don't forget to PM me. I'll send you by mail one of my logo t-shirts with his photo! :agree:

You have T-shirts?! I'm sometimes easily persuaded for free swag. :D That's cool though -- he's lucky to have such a devoted fan like you!
 

Viiktoruu

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
I just reviewed his 4Lutz and it appears exactly 1/4 short. Not the best technique on the jump, but the panel not giving benefit of the doubt here seems like they are marking him down just for being a newbie.

I'm astounded by this opinion. I believe you are one of the members here who decided to disregard the definitions of jumps and believe only rotations in the air should be counted and that rotations done by the toe-pick prior to the takeoff of the toe-pick foot are pre-rotations. Am I right? That's the way Evgenia or Satoko or Shoma are accused of such.

So by that make-believe criteria, didn't Samarin pre-rotate this jump, or as your famous thread stated, wasn't he also underrotated - he did only 3 and 1/3 rotations in the air. :confused:
 

Alifyre

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
I like that his team choses interesting music for him, but I'm not sure about what he's thinking at all. Could be World Domination or.....Kittens.....

Holy wow, I didn't realize Samarin was so tall! I knew he looked long-limbed, but he looks like he has several centimeters on Javi....

Just googled it, he's 178cm?? Ok, I can forgive him a little bit for looking gawky on the ice, he's got a lot of limb to control. Would like to see some refinement in his movements, but I know it's hard to look graceful when you're gangly. But then again, Plushy was was 180cm so there may be hope for him yet.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Am I right?

The issue has been explained in detail many times. You seem to be taking parts of what has been said and then twisting other parts. Let me know when you're ready to listen instead of making more false assumptions.

didn't Samarin pre-rotate this jump, or as your famous thread stated, wasn't he also underrotated - he did only 3 and 1/3 rotations in the air. :confused:

3 and 1/3 rotations in the air would be a successful quad jump (depending on exactly how those rotations happened). People turn up to 1/2 on the entrance and are given 1/4 leeway on the landing - a quad is only actually 3 and 1/4 turns in the air, as far as the minimum allowable amount.

Samarin turns to forward on his toepick, which is not ideal for a Lutz but it is allowable. Then he landed 1/4 turn short, his landing appeared to be exactly sideways to me from the point he left the ice. So that would be a creditable Quad, even if it's not a great one.
 

Viiktoruu

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
The issue has been explained in detail many times. You seem to be taking parts of what has been said and then twisting other parts. Let me know when you're ready to listen instead of making more false assumptions.

3 and 1/3 rotations in the air would be a successful quad jump (depending on exactly how those rotations happened). People turn up to 1/2 on the entrance and are given 1/4 leeway on the landing - a quad is only actually 3 and 1/4 turns in the air, as far as the minimum allowable amount.

Samarin turns to forward on his toepick, which is not ideal for a Lutz but it is allowable. Then he landed 1/4 turn short, his landing appeared to be exactly sideways to me from the point he left the ice. So that would be a creditable Quad, even if it's not a great one.

Am I not ready to listen? If I wasn't I wouldn't have asked you a question. :confused:
A 3 and 1/3 rotations in the air jump wouldn't be considered rotated by only counting the rotations done in the air minus 1/4 for the landing. I didn't know you agree some rotations should be tolerated on takeoff, and believe me, there are even some pre-rotation theorists that don't even allow that, some even make slow motion videos on Salchows and loops freeze-framing the first moment both blades left the ice and start counting rotations from that moment :palmf:
That said, I apologize for assuming you were one of those people. It is impossible to remember what every member wrote, and you are the most vocal about Evgenia's jumps being somehow underrotated... I won't go into that, this thread is not meant for such a discussion anyways :eek:hwell:
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
A 3 and 1/3 rotations in the air jump wouldn't be considered rotated by only counting the rotations done in the air minus 1/4 for the landing.

Yes it would be, assuming we're talking about a jump that leaves the ice 1/2 turn into the start of the jump (virtually everyone does on this on the Loop, Salchow, Toeloop / it's also "okay" for the other types of jumps). An acceptable quad jump is just 3 and 1/4 rotations in the air.

slow motion videos on Salchows and loops freeze-framing the first moment both blades left the ice and start counting rotations from that moment :palmf:

That's what people SHOULD be doing. If a Salchow or Loop (or any type of jump) has more than 1/2 turn pre-rotation, it is a flaw. The rotation needs to be counted from the point the jump leaves the ice. If a skater doesn't land at least 90 degrees past whatever point they eventually left the ice, then the jump is underrotated.

If a skater pre-rotates less than 1/2 turn it should also be taken into consideration, to some extent. This part we can ignore for the moment though, people just get more confused when thinking about this if they aren't understanding the first part of the concept.
 

beki

Medalist
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
I wouldn’t mind watching Samarin do jumps only, but all his other elements are unsightly.
 
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