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Thread: Veteran Voronov takes first Grand Prix gold

  1. #31
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dante View Post
    I can't. I can only understand this in the sense of a Russian meme: "While Americans say 'do or die', we Russians say 'die but do', because death is not a valid excuse for us."
    Hm. I will need to mull this over a bit. for your answer!

    In the meantime, I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts as well, about what Sergei meant by that.

  2. #32
    GS Supporter Tavi...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylark View Post
    Hm. I will need to mull this over a bit. for your answer!

    In the meantime, I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts as well, about what Sergei meant by that.
    I think it’s relatively simple:

    In the US we say, it’s not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. Sergei appears to be saying that in Russia, it’s the complete opposite. So whether your win is ugly or pretty, in a tough or depleted field, or by a small or a large margin isn’t as important as whether you come out on top. The corollary would be that taking silver in any field - even a tough one - doesn’t mean as much as winning.

  3. #33
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavi... View Post
    I think it’s relatively simple:

    In the US we say, it’s not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. Sergei appears to be saying that in Russia, it’s the complete opposite. So whether your win is ugly or pretty, in a tough or depleted field, or by a small or a large margin isn’t as important as whether you come out on top. The corollary would be that taking silver in any field - even a tough one - doesn’t mean as much as winning.
    That's kind of what I was afraid of, that he meant that it's only or ever about winning. Of course, he wasn't necessarily speaking as an individual, and even if that's what he meant, it would not change the fact that there are probably many people who don't think that way.

  4. #34
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Really? I think it’s a cool phrase and took it more to mean the work you put in may kill you but you shouldn’t be afraid of that. The last thing I would ever expect from Sergei is it’s only about winning. That just seems so uncharacteristic and doesn’t describe the guy at all. I really think the phrase doesn’t translate well into English as already mentioned. It’s not uncommon.

  5. #35
    a dark lord dante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavi... View Post
    I think it’s relatively simple:

    In the US we say, it’s not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. Sergei appears to be saying that in Russia, it’s the complete opposite. So whether your win is ugly or pretty, in a tough or depleted field, or by a small or a large margin isn’t as important as whether you come out on top. The corollary would be that taking silver in any field - even a tough one - doesn’t mean as much as winning.
    Yes, this understanding is obvious, but as a Russian I assert that it has nothing to do with Russians' pride which was mentioned.

    I couldn't find this interview in Russian, so I think it was an interview in an imperfect English that was 'fixed' by the editor.

  6. #36
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Really? I think it’s a cool phrase and took it more to mean the work you put in may kill you but you shouldn’t be afraid of that. The last thing I would ever expect from Sergei is it’s only about winning. That just seems so uncharacteristic and doesn’t describe the guy at all. I really think the phrase doesn’t translate well into English as already mentioned. It’s not uncommon.
    I completely agree. I read it more as a collective phrase or idiom. Because it seemed at first thought interestingly tangential, I wanted to hear what people said who knew Russian.

  7. #37
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dante View Post
    Yes, this understanding is obvious, but as a Russian I assert that it has nothing to do with Russians' pride which was mentioned.

    I couldn't find this interview in Russian, so I think it was an interview in an imperfect English that was 'fixed' by the editor.
    I've studied languages, and this is one of the reasons I was curious about the sentence. My son and I like to watch movies together, and we have fun occasionally by watching and listening in Spanish (in which he's fluent), having the subtitles on in French (I have a little reading ability still) ... and then pausing the movie to compare how the same bit of dialogue was expressed in English. One of our favorite things about studying languages is to notice and appreciate how differently things are expressed in each language, and how an expression or idiom may or may not reflect back to the culture, habits of thought, imagery or humor, etc.

    I appreciate your willingness to "play" this game with me. My apologies, if I gave any negative impression. Mutual respect is what I seek, and that's how I felt you answered my original inquiry. And thank you for trying to find the interview in Russian, that would have been cool if you as a Russian could shed a different light on the phrases he used.

  8. #38
    Medalist Tutto's Avatar
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    ^ I can't find exact same interview either but in this one by Tatyana Flade is on Rus Fed's website:
    http://www.fsrussia.ru/intervyu/3353...akalyayut.html

    Q: Some skaters had to withdraw for various reasons from this event. How do you assess/value your victory in that regard?
    A: As the saying goes, the winners are not judged [direct translation, the meaning as I understand it, is that if you won in the end it doesn't matter under which circumstances you won e.g in a depleted field]. The first place, it is not doubted. I've beaten some strong skaters who are in the top ten in the world, and generally there are no weak competitors in the GP.

    I think that there could have been some slight annoyance on Sergei's part at that 'attempt' to undermine his win (understandably perhaps) and maybe it would have been better just to say that he was happy to be able to skate two back to back clean programs, but I think it was okay

  9. #39
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutto View Post
    ^ I can't find exact same interview either but in this one by Tatyana Flade is on Rus Fed's website:
    http://www.fsrussia.ru/intervyu/3353...akalyayut.html

    Q: Some skaters had to withdraw for various reasons from this event. How do you assess/value your victory in that regard?
    A:As the saying goes, the winners are not judged [direct translation, the meaning as I understand it, is that if you won in the end it doesn't matter under which circumstances you won e.g in a depleted field]. The first place, it is not doubted. I've beaten some strong skaters who are in the top ten in the world, and generally there are no weak competitors in the GP.

    I think that there could have been some slight annoyance on Sergei's part at that 'attempt' to undermine his win (understandably perhaps) and maybe it would have been better just to say that he was happy to be able to skate two back to back clean programs, but I think it was okay
    Thank you so much for searching and finding this. Reading the question and Sergei's answer puts it all in quite a different light. Of course, that can happen even without the difficulties of translation ... often a skater's words are quoted, and then a completely different meaning is cast onto the quote by the journalist's headline or the words they put around the quote.

    But this sounds much more likely, to me, to be the meaning of Sergei's words. And also it gives the context: the interviewer's question. I don't blame him if he was a bit annoyed; I would have been, too. I join you in thinking it was okay. In fact, completely justified.

  10. #40
    a dark lord dante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutto View Post
    A: As the saying goes, the winners are not judged [direct translation, the meaning as I understand it, is that if you won in the end it doesn't matter under which circumstances you won e.g in a depleted field].
    In 1733, during a Russo-Turkish war Alexander Suvorov used an opportunity to make a risky but successful attempt to assault Tutrakan castle, against the orders he had. He was a genius and never lost a single battle in his whole life, but at that time he was a subordinate of an envious general who didn't like him and who prosecuted him for violation of an order. When the verdict was presented to Catherine the Great, she wrote on it: "Winners are not judged." These words became winged.

    Sergey doesn't look annoyed in this interview, he just stated that this competition is as important for him as any other Grand Prix event.

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