PCS/Reputation Judging | Page 9 | Golden Skate

PCS/Reputation Judging

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Still there will be gray areas sometimes inspiring fans or players to dispute the referee calls. Just imagine how much more contentious soccer scoring would be refs or judges could award extra points for elegant plays and deductions for sloppy ones, etc.

I think players get extra points for artistic flops -- or at least the other team gets more severe penalties. :yes:
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
First, to me, the appropriate conclusion to draw from this is not that PCS should be eliminated, but that they should be combined. There is no point in having a performance score and a composition score and a musical interpretation score if that just means that the judges write down the same score three times. You could combine them into one score, while still listing all the criteria and bullet points that the judges are supposed to be paying attention to.

What I have found is that TR is usually half a point lower than SS. I always figured that this was because it is easier for judges actually to count the transitions and evaluate their variety at least, if not quality -- so they are more confident in giving a lower score.

The other thing that I have noticed is that for the top skaters all of the components scores are about the same. But this often becomes less and less true as you work your way down. At the lower levels it is easier to find examples of a skater who gets high marks in SS and considerable lower marks in Presentation, or vice versa. For the very top skaters. I for one am not surprised that the same competitors who have the strongest skating skills, for instance, also get good marks in turning those skills to the service of musical interpretation, etc.

Why i think they should be eliminated?
Because ISU has been meddling with it for years, and it does not get any better. So it seems quite clear that they either cannot figure it out or just want it to work the way it currently does, with all the reputation scoring and shady stuff. Now, i´m paranoid and believe in the second option =(

Also, hehe, throwing "lets remove PCs" actually stirs a bit more of discussion ;)

I disagree about combining PCs, as it would not solve the current problems of how PCs are judges. They would be just as easily used to prop specific skaters and so on and so on.

Imho, it would need a complete makeover, where most categories are more objective, and not just guidelines. That somehow would force judges to correlate it minimally with reality.
For example, take rules for GOE. Judges cannot give a jump with a fall a +3 GOE, but nothing keeps them from giving a 10 in PCs to a flawed performance.

- - - Updated - - -

I am still seriously asking what "it" is.

If the answer is "the distribution that we are studying," my question becomes, "what distribution are we studying"?

The distribution of scores for a certain PC category for a certain skater in a certain event
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The distribution of scores for a certain PC category for a certain skater in a certain event

I think that this would have to be "the distribution of all possible scores that all qualified and well-trained judges in the world might give to this particular skater in this PC category for this particular skate at this particular event." Then the actual 9-judge panel would comprise a sample of size nine drawn from this very large (approximately infinite) population. We would have to guarantee that, for instance, the sample is random in the sense that every possible judge in the imagined population has an equal chance to be chosen for the panel, and a couple of other things.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, for instance, we can clearly see that judges give the same score to all the categories.
If a skated has a great performance and terrible skating skills, the skater will just get same 7-something in both, for example.

Can you give some examples?

See Kolyada's SP at Rostelecom and at CoC. See Kostner's FS at Rostelecom and at NHK.

Are these supposed to be examples of great performances with terrible skating skills??

I think the discussion is going in too many directions at once to keep track of.

Almost as complex as a skating program. ;)

Meanwhile, I went and found a video of Kolyada's SP at Rostelecom from British Eurosport.

There was one actual mistake in that performance that broke the flow of the program for about 2 seconds. And "only" a triple lutz as the solo jump.

When I first watched the performance as it was happening or later that day on IceNetwork, with no commentary, I could forget about the mistake as soon as it was over and concentrate on the rest of the program.

When I watched just now with the British Eurosport commentary, the commentators kept going on and on about what he had done wrong and how low he was going to place. I'm sure anyone who watched that broadcast, or any other broadcast with similar commentary, had a much more negative impression of the performance than those of us who watched without commentary, much less people (including judges) who got to watch in the arena and appreciate all the skaters' speed and energy in ways that don't come across on video.

This is why I can't stand watching skating with commentary that I can understand. I want to concentrate on the skating and form my own opinions, not listen to someone else's.
 

Ender

Match Penalty
Joined
May 17, 2017
Every skater does crossovers and the quality varies significantly; they are absolutely part of judging the components. You've belly flopped with that attempted shade.
Eh... you’re a top skater so people have to expect high quality crossovers from you. Isn’t that normal.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Nah, plenty of high level competitors have shown weak crossovers. There's still a big difference between truly great ones as well and just "good" crossovers. The depth of edge and smoothness and amount of power generated, and posture while doing it.
 
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