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Thread: Understanding Virtue and Moir

  1. #76
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by klutzy View Post
    I've never warmed up much to Virtue/Moir either--I'm sure part of that stems from of the post-Sochi stuff where their fans claimed that the fix was in for Davis/White, despite D/W having gone two years without losing a competition. The public grousing by Scott didn't help.

    That said--here's what I see as V/M strengths: really deep edges and smooth skating--truly excellent skating skills; terrific unison--it helps to have been skating forever--it's not an accident that other teams with amazing unison (D/W, the Shibs) have also been skating together forever.

    And Tessa. Scott's good, but Tessa's the strongest female ice dancer out there. Excellent balance and SS, strong, flexible core, good lines, good rhythm, connection to the audience. Kind of the flip of P/C, where Gabrielle is a lovely presence, but Guilliaume has that incredible flexibility and line that you just don't see with other men.

    Sometimes I like to imagine what a Tessa/Guilliaume pairing would be like.
    People really down play how amazing Scott is. P/C really benefited from an easier scoring system. When they have to match lines or perform patterns like the Ravensberger Waltz, it ends up looking bad. There is a reason that they don't get good scores in the SD when they are in the same competitions as V/M.

  2. #77
    Medalist VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
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    I don't think we should downplay the athleticism many teams displayed in-between Torvill/Dean's Bolero and the Canton teams in Vancouver. Many pre-IJS ice dance programs were full of difficult steps, displays of athleticism, pure body movement and actual dance, and pure intricacy and in closer holds than what we see now. I mean however you feel about Oksana Grishuk, I'm still in awe at her athleticism when I watch videos of Grishuk/Platov. I think when ice dance started to become more objective and more about individual elements (after 1998 or 1999) that's when it became something one could compare more with today's style of ice dance. That said, there's still a way ice dancers really paid attention to body movement and intricacy back then that most don't do now with some exceptions obviously. I think Meryl/Charlie and Scott/Tessa can be credited for taking the itemized elements and really pushing it to the fullest while keeping the execution up (I'd argue V/M were more successful at that than D/W though D/W really pushed the rushed athletic side).

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    During what I like to call The Lawrence Welk Era (ie pre-Torvil and Dean's Bolero) this was a legitimate concern. But now, it's just churlishness. If P/C has ushered in the era of Modern Dance being acceptable, the Marlie/Voir era really accelerated the athletic side of ID. Think I'm kidding? Go back and look at the years between Bolero and the quad culminating in the Vancouver Olympics.
    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I don't think we should downplay the athleticism many teams displayed in-between Torvill/Dean's Bolero and the Canton teams in Vancouver.
    Yes.

    Lifts increased in difficult throughout the 1980s, 90s, and 2000s because ice dance rules started out very restrictive in what kinds of lifts were allowed, how high the man's hands could travel above his waist? then shoulders? then head?. They wanted to make sure that ice dancing did not look like pairs.

    Ambitious teams pushed the boundaries of what was allowed at the time and sometimes suffered deductions. The ISU dance tech committee then decided to allow some moves that had previously been illegal. The top teams continued to push boundaries, and lift rules got loosened to allow even more options, then tightened again, and then codified under IJS where the rules for lift levels actively encouraged teams to display athetic lifts that would have been frowned on or actively penalized 20 years earlier.

    So thank all the teams that pushed the boundaries of their times, and thank the less reactionary members of the ISU dance committee who opened up the restrictive lift rules.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I don't think we should downplay the athleticism many teams displayed in-between Torvill/Dean's Bolero and the Canton teams in Vancouver. Many pre-IJS ice dance programs were full of difficult steps, displays of athleticism, pure body movement and actual dance, and pure intricacy and in closer holds than what we see now. I mean however you feel about Oksana Grishuk, I'm still in awe at her athleticism when I watch videos of Grishuk/Platov. I think when ice dance started to become more objective and more about individual elements (after 1998 or 1999) that's when it became something one could compare more with today's style of ice dance. That said, there's still a way ice dancers really paid attention to body movement and intricacy back then that most don't do now with some exceptions obviously. I think Meryl/Charlie and Scott/Tessa can be credited for taking the itemized elements and really pushing it to the fullest while keeping the execution up (I'd argue V/M were more successful at that than D/W though D/W really pushed the rushed athletic side).
    Well that's true and I do agree with what you say... butI was exaggerating to prove a point. And I think the basic point is true: Marlie and Voir (there I go again!) really did lift the standards of athleticism in ice dance during their years competing.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Yes.

    Lifts increased in difficult throughout the 1980s, 90s, and 2000s because ice dance rules started out very restrictive in what kinds of lifts were allowed, how high the man's hands could travel above his waist? then shoulders? then head?. They wanted to make sure that ice dancing did not look like pairs.

    Ambitious teams pushed the boundaries of what was allowed at the time and sometimes suffered deductions. The ISU dance tech committee then decided to allow some moves that had previously been illegal. The top teams continued to push boundaries, and lift rules got loosened to allow even more options, then tightened again, and then codified under IJS where the rules for lift levels actively encouraged teams to display athetic lifts that would have been frowned on or actively penalized 20 years earlier.

    So thank all the teams that pushed the boundaries of their times, and thank the less reactionary members of the ISU dance committee who opened up the restrictive lift rules.
    This too...

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