Why the lack of interest in pairs? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Why the lack of interest in pairs?

lappo

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
When I was very young and getting into figure skating (through ladies) I saw the video of Totmianina; it truly scared me, to the point that still nowadays I don't watch pairs live and only rewatch videos. It may seems stupid, I know. That's why it took me a lot more time to appreciate pairs but there are many that I watch with pleasure (S/H of course, but also M/C, S/K and P/J are among my favourites). Also, in my quest of FS proselytism, I found out that pairs is the most remarkable and effective discipline to show to a non FS fan, because of the extreme and daring moves (my totally anti FS boyfriend was truly impressed with last year French team LP and this year S/H SP, for example).
 

silverfoxes

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
I enjoy watching the top pairs & I admire pairs ladies a lot. I think you have to be fearless to be a pairs girl and they don't usually fit the pretty princess mold that turns me off so much in singles ladies. But I don't follow the lower or junior ranked pairs much because when they aren't as experienced, the falls are really hard to watch. And they tend to split after a short time together so I don't feel like getting invested. Also, the trend of faux romantic, soft, schmaltzy programs is boring - leave it to ice dance! I like innovation, drama, and fun programs. Not that those always work either (T/M...) but I'll take that over the sleep-inducing stuff.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
I love pairs. Imho, they got the most impressive elements =D
Overall though, I think:

1. there are less strong pair teams, so there is less excitement and the results are more predictable (compare with ladies, for instance, where you easily have, at any major competition, 5 or more girls who could take gold)
2. fewer countries have strong pair teams, so there is less people who watch just because their own team competes (for example, i´m not much into dance, but if there are some strong russian teams in a competition, I will still watch it, since i´m already watching men, ladies and pairs anyways), and when they do, we dont get to see the fans (see chinese fans, for example, i bet there are many of them, but they are pretty off radar for us)
3. pairs are more dangerous (falls from lifts and throws are much scarier than falls in singles), which may bother some people
 

GGFan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
I agree with much of what has been said. I still watch of course but I don't care for the fact:

1. Pairs have less mastery over the content because it is so difficult. I want some risk, but I don't want to expect falls or wonky lifts.
2. You cannot get through a single pairs program without seeing ugly positions. The rules now require them. Can you imagine Berezhnaya being forced to hit ugly positions? :eeking:
3. This relates back to 1, but it makes the lower ranked pairs team programs much less watchable. There is way too much awkwardness.

It is for that reason that I appreciate teams that are able to transcend the rules and make beautiful programs.
 

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Pairs stresses me out! It looks so dangerous.

I'd agree with that. Lifts now are so difficult and risky. It's such a slippery slope for young men and women to learn them without both sustaining potential serious injury. I think the fact that fewer skaters are entering the pair discipline also leads to a smaller audience. But let's see how the Olympics go and maybe a sensational showing will spark further interest.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
I love the pairs. I really do. But I think it's the most difficult discipline to excel in. Once you get any lower than the top 6 or so teams in the world, pairs skating starts looking ROUGH. Whereas there are just larger numbers of watchable teams/skaters in other disciplines. The elements of pairs skating can easily be very awkward and ugly - getting the polish and presentation takes years.

That said, I think pairs, last year and this year, have been the most interesting artistically. The top teams really have some sensational programs.
 

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom
Record Breaker
Joined
May 10, 2010
I believe the pairs discipline was hit the hardest by the rule changes, as the IJS rewards complexity and difficulty rather than simplicity and elegance. Death spirals always have awkwardly bent positions for the lady as the man tries to eek out the last slow rotation, lifts have the lady sometimes twist into a bizarre catchfoot position, the side by side spins are so complicated that it's rare to see any pair be in good sync with each other, the footwork sequence crams in every darn turn that pales in comparison to footwork that an ice dance couple can do, and the combination spin tends to look the same between most of the pairs. All this complexity makes it look like acrobatics since there's very little time to skate to the music with facial expression and attention to the phrasing.

That isn't to say that there aren't teams like Sui/Han, James/Cipres, and Savchenko/Massot who can transcend those rules, but it is indeed rather rare. Currently it's all about who can nail the technical side with positive GOEs with high throws, clean sbs jumps, and Level 4s on everything else. Thus, I think that for the everyday person who watch pairs, it's more like two people doing tricks on ice which is impressive but forgettable to a degree as well.
 

Ares

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Country
Poland
For me it's about it being too scary. I like men's skating and that's scary too, and lately a slapfest, but if I hadn't gotten into it previously I probably wouldn't be this invested either.
I just prefer skating to be more about artistry and least about surviving the different jumps. I don't really understand ice dance's rules but I don't need them to enjoy the pure coordination and musicality of the programs.
And also the girls in pairs usually feel so defenseless against the odds and injury that I just can't.
Sometimes I'll watch a winning program because I'll know no one fell or was injured during it, but watching/following it live with all the bad stuff that could happen? I've got enough with man's quads, I don't want to break my heart again each time someone falls.

In the past it was my favourite discipline to follow as Poland used to have great team - Dorota & Mariusz Siudek (her maiden name Zagórska), they won Silver at the World Championships once and European medals too. I remember biting my fingernails while watching their starts as I wanted the best for them so I was stressed while simultaneously still enjoying their beautiful skating. :drama: But I was not scared of possible harmful incident back then as a naive kid but still ...

...
I find it weird that people are discouraged by pairs because they're ''scary''. I only find it scary when something actually scary happens or is about to happen - (most splats don't really count as such) or when I see that their elements are not executed in a confident way like shaky lifts or spins in seperation that are too close to each other. On senior level it's not the case most of the time, they know how to control their possible fall and usually recuperate quickly. Or is it just that the pre-existent fear that something may happen that does not allow to enjoy it for some viewers? :scratch2:

I love Pairs, there's no second discipline that allows to present such a wide variety of skills and unique technical elements, some choreographic options are also present only here. Technical elements like twists, and throw jumps when executed well with good running edge on the landing make people gasp! Also I really like the speed & lines of top teams - very pleasant to watch even when they do crossovers holding each other hands. Simply breathtaking sport. Even lower ranked teams have their charm regardless of them blowing my mind or not. I dislike though ugly positions in lifts that are done just to get high level that are frequent nowadays because of the current set of rules, I think this is the most dangerous element also right now in pairs, with all difficult features that skaters want to achieve like rotation of the partner, one foot standing of the man etc.

I don't feel terrified watching pairs though, more like wowed by their skill.



It definitely requires conviction, courage and athleticism from both, but I have the highest respect for ladies in pairs because they're those who are thrown in throw jumps and lifted over the head of their partner. They're the most badass skaters in the world for me.

There are much more dangerous sports / disciplines that people follow and like so I can't quite fathom like Formula 1 car races, or motorbikes ... here people actually die. Or even artistic gymnastics, I've seen broken legs and really scary incidences in live coverage :hopelessness: Circus tricks are also more scary.

Why people freak out so much over pairs?
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Yes, I am almost sure that the lack of popularity are the countries at the top. And though D/R and T/M are from Canda and Russia (both with a lot of figure skating fans), those pairs are not so charismatic. I wonder how popular are S/H in China? , probably they have a lot of fans in China but not many of them come to this forum, unfortunately.
 

Antilles

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I agree with those who have alluded to pairs programs sometimes looking rough. I've seen many singles skaters and dancers who excel at everything they have to do: jumps, spins, footwork for singles, and footwork, spins and lifts for dance. I have never seen a pair team who excelled at everything. Some excelled overall, but even the best teams had a few elements that were either lacklustre or just run of the mill. I rarely see a pair team and think "what a fabulous pair spin/side-by-side spin/footwork." Usually at least one of those three things is just ok to watch.

Having said that, pairs is my second favourite discipline to watch after dance. I far prefer to watch a team on the ice than a single skater. Having two skaters mean much more interesting and intricate moves, and we get to see a relationship on the ice.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Pairs skating looks abusive. I always feel bad for the girl being thrown around, and even worse when she falls.

I don't like gymnastics either, though.
 

Ylyzybyth

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
I kind of want to get into watching pairs simply because it seems like the pairs fans are fun. The threads seem (as the kids say) "LIT" and just generally a bit more light hearted (I've been doing some creeping)
 

Tastetherainbow

Medalist
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
I believe the pairs discipline was hit the hardest by the rule changes, as the IJS rewards complexity and difficulty rather than simplicity and elegance. Death spirals always have awkwardly bent positions for the lady as the man tries to eek out the last slow rotation, lifts have the lady sometimes twist into a bizarre catchfoot position, the side by side spins are so complicated that it's rare to see any pair be in good sync with each other, the footwork sequence crams in every darn turn that pales in comparison to footwork that an ice dance couple can do, and the combination spin tends to look the same between most of the pairs. All this complexity makes it look like acrobatics since there's very little time to skate to the music with facial expression and attention to the phrasing.

That isn't to say that there aren't teams like Sui/Han, James/Cipres, and Savchenko/Massot who can transcend those rules, but it is indeed rather rare. Currently it's all about who can nail the technical side with positive GOEs with high throws, clean sbs jumps, and Level 4s on everything else. Thus, I think that for the everyday person who watch pairs, it's more like two people doing tricks on ice which is impressive but forgettable to a degree as well.

I think draqq pretty much nailed it. As a person who rarely watches ice dance, I've noticed how "sightly" for a lack of a better word their spins were compared to those in pairs. Seriously, SBS and pair spins are some of the most time consuming and ugly elements that exist nowadays and really detracts from the enjoyment of the program. That, and the lack of marketability that singles have. Sadly, people only ever remember one person, not two, and nothing is probably going to change that.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
It is time thing for me too. I watch pairs last. The last great battle with pairs was 2002. I loved when Shen/ Zhao finally made it. He threw her half way across the rink. They b came amazing too with their artistry. Last truly great pair.

Without any Americans in the mix that can medal I don’t watch much. Th Russians and that includes Aliona still have very good teams. Sui/Han are very good just tiny. Really once you watch Rodnina and partners you are spoiled with the perfect unison pairs used to skate with. Then you have G and G esp as pros and no one comes close. The tricks don’t really grab me. I like Stolbova/Klimov but it is hard as an American to really care about other countries skaters that are very good but offer no real magic. G and G were so amazing. Since them Sale/Pelletier had the whole package and Shen/zhao were an incredibly amazing team who got better every year.

No one since them has much magic for me.
 

Alex D

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
The pairs competitions tend to suffer a bit by too many mistakes. They all push each other so much, triples are no longer enough, so it must be the quad or triple Axel throw and in my opinion it just doesn´t look good if lifts are aborted, spins completely out of balance or the lady tumbling.

There are still some great pairs on ice, I am a huge fan of the Chinese as they do actually have the skill, to pull these stunts off. When you sit there at the ice and see how they work until the end, it´s amazing, especially the lifting. This guy is fabulous!

I also like the Russian teams, they do have such a traditional approach, with strong side by side elements and lovely alignments. Luba and Dylan are nice too, the Canadians always have some special trick in their programs and they work with acting coaches too.

Overall, it´s like with the men for me. A lot of potential, but somehow ...
 

jimini

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
The pairs competitions tend to suffer a bit by too many mistakes. They all push each other so much, triples are no longer enough, so it must be the quad or triple Axel throw and in my opinion it just doesn´t look good if lifts are aborted, spins completely out of balance or the lady tumbling.
This is why I struggle to watch as well. I really want to like pairs, but the volume of falls on throws and botched/balked SBS jumps really turned me off from it.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
This is why I struggle to watch as well. I really want to like pairs, but the volume of falls on throws and botched/balked SBS jumps really turned me off from it.

And yet the number of botched quads for the men and triple/triples for the women doesn't seem to affect your enjoyment of them?

Look, the tech bar got exponentially raised the last few years in Pairs. It is always thus: the tech bar gets raised, the aesthetic quality drops temporarily whilst Pairs adjust to the new technical requirements to stay competitive. Then the quality of the skating goes back up. We're just in the middle of that process right now. I find Pairs super duper exciting.

Now the women on the other hand bore me. Bore bore bore me.

De gustibus non est disputandum.
 

jimini

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
And yet the number of botched quads for the men and triple/triples for the women doesn't seem to affect your enjoyment of them?
Well for me personally, I don't often watch the men (though I do like Nathan Chen) since all the falls are excruciating. For the women though, triple/triples are very consistent. The hit ratio on 3-3s for Ladies is actually quite remarkable compared to how many more skaters attempt them today compared to 10 years ago. The consistency in ladies skating combined with increased difficulty is part of the reason I've grown to enjoy ladies skating again in the last couple years.

So to your point, if Pairs manage to find that consistency now that the tech bar has risen, then I think that would do a lot to help its marketability.
 

WGloria

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
In the US it is a huge problem that the teams seem so inconsistent and the turnover rate is so high. From a marketing and memorability standpoint, I don't find that the pairs know how to "present" themselves. I miss the work on some of the best story tellers in the event. Sui and Han are reminiscent of some of the great story telling pairs (Gordeeva and Grinkov, Shen and Zhao), as are in my opinion, Stolbova and Klimov. In the US, it seems like there is more work to be done not just learning elements but in understanding how to 'present' and entertain. Too many blank faces and unfinished movements. "next level" is not the phrase we would use so much at the present, unfortunately.
 
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