Why the lack of interest in pairs?

I understand you .... I like watching pairs ... and I prefer pairs to dance any time ... Pairs is difficult ... I like when the girl is thrown ...

I love La La Land and watching Astakhova and Rogonov's LLL SP, it makes feel as if that music best suited to a pairs program than any other discipline.

I have a few favorite pairs who I think are very exciting to watch (Sui/Han, Savchenko/Massot) and I have a lot of respect for what it takes to skate pairs.

That said, it's my least favorite discipline because to me, it's the one where most of the programs start to look the same. If you took away the music of most pairs, I feel like they do the same programs. Whereas, I feel like the restrictions in ice dance have forced more creative lifts and positions. I don't hate pairs, but I'll pick and choose what to watch, rather than watching the whole competition.

I think the issue with pairs is that, because of the nature of the elements that they do, the performances tend to look significantly worse when there are mistakes.

I guess it’s a different answer if you ask anybody on this forum, where, by definition, everybody is a die hard fan of FS, than if you asked a wider public. Like why is the arena more empty during pairs than during dance?

If I can answer on behalf of the public I would guess it has to do with visual attractiveness. In dances the man and the woman are perfectly matched visually. They are both extremely good looking, close in age and size, both equally matured, much better looking than an average pairs team, the woman is very feminine, they form a very appealing harmony and mutual connection. Add beautiful costumes, artistic grace and flow, of course music, and then you get the attraction.

I don’t like the visual mismatch in pairs. It’s usually a big man and an underdeveloped woman. They are not even close in personal beauty and grace as the dance teams. Tarasova/ Morozov are the exception from this rule and they are the main reason I still keep my interest in pairs. Other than them I simply can’t connect with any other pair. I respect the incredible quality of S/H, but their visual appeal for me is not even close to any dance team I know.

Another factor is very close competitiveness of the dance right now. Any top 10 dance team delivers a breathtaking artistic experience. Any of them. And being extraordinary and breathtaking is not even enough to qualify for top eight. I don’t remember such incredible level in dances ever.

But I tell you this: bring Natalia Mishkutenok back, clone her ten times, and pairs will compete with dances as equals.

jimini said:

Well for me personally, I don't often watch the men (though I do like Nathan Chen) since all the falls are excruciating. For the women though, triple/triples are very consistent. The hit ratio on 3-3s for Ladies is actually quite remarkable compared to how many more skaters attempt them today compared to 10 years ago. The consistency in ladies skating combined with increased difficulty is part of the reason I've grown to enjoy ladies skating again in the last couple years.

So to your point, if Pairs manage to find that consistency now that the tech bar has risen, then I think that would do a lot to help its marketability.

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One of the reasons that the women tend to bore me is that technically,they may be more consistent, but women were doing triple/triple combos upteen years ago. Nothing really all THAT new there. And they're the one discipline which really hasn't had the bar raised to the same degree.

Marketability is also a tricky thing (my sister works in advertising, so I hear a lot about this!). If you're talking about the US, Pairs has always been a poor relation. You really have to go back to the days of Tai and Randy and maybe the Caruthers to find teams that really had any true marketability...in the US market. "The Truck Driver and The Waitress" made for a fine Olympics puff piece, but just how marketable were they really?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

WeakAnkles said:

One of the reasons that the women tend to bore me is that technically,they may be more consistent, but women were doing triple/triple combos upteen years ago. Nothing really all THAT new there. And they're the one discipline which really hasn't had the bar raised to the same degree.

Marketability is also a tricky thing (my sister works in advertising, so I hear a lot about this!). If you're talking about the US, Pairs has always been a poor relation. You really have to go back to the days of Tai and Randy and maybe the Caruthers to find teams that really had any true marketability...in the US market. "The Truck Driver and The Waitress" made for a fine Olympics puff piece, but just how marketable were they really?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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I think that the Ladies do have upped their game in the technical department. Look at the protocols of events, scroll down and you will find a lot of skaters who are doing triple - triple now, or combinations with double Axel. This was not the case many years ago, where mostly the top girls did the very difficult elements. A triple - triple is not a free win anymore, you need more and this is where the program compositions come into play.

Look at skaters from Asia, they had that "touch" of being a bit "too quiet" for years. It was a bit of the same all the time but they have opened up now. I always loved Yuna Kims Gala performances and these type of performances, are now no longer restricted to a show, but also happen at competitions as seen with Wakaba. The girls are much more into performing for the crowd now, they are skating to current music, to stuff that much more people can relate to and this is just great.
Gone are the days, where there was a bit of a gap between elements, all skaters try to truly connect their technical difficulties with each other and step sequences have seen a lot of work too. They are more powerful and energetic, more expressive and overall, the choreographies are much more detailed as well.

I would say, we need to look at the whole thing here and not just the lack of a "quad". I am actually happy we don´t have these "suicide squads" at the ladies, where several athletes just destroy their programs by too many mistakes and all of that, for a few points more if it works.

That being said, we should at no point downgrade triples as a normal thing to day. They are still very hard elements, this is nothing that just comes to you as an athlete and since programs are more complex now, it is much harder to land a triple today, than it was in the past.


All of that doesn´t change the fact though, that the media tends to focus more on the Ladies, because of that "beauty" thing. I suppose that a magazine just sells better with a girl / women, look at YT and check what videos have the most views. It´s quite often one with a female on front. After all those centuries, beauty and women still go hand in hand and I am afraid, that this is exploited as well, if it comes to popularity in sport.

Probably the same reason why singles tennis is more popular than doubles tennis.

I can't keep track of all the names. I'm also still a newbie, so I don't understand all the skating elements yet just in singles. Pairs is that much more complicated.

I am now following the Aussie pair Harley Windsor and Katya Alexandrovska , because he's our first Indigenous Olympic skater, and it's nice that she became an aussie citizen to skate the Olympics with him. It's a good story, and they're just out of juniors so I can follow their senior careers from the beginning.

But the rest of the field...too many people, too many relationships to keep track of. I also find it difficult to follow more than one person on the ice, and what they're actually doing.

It's strange for me to see that pairs don't get much attention because it was the discipline that first drew me to ice skating (thank you, Volosozhar/Trankov!) - I find it really exciting, hopefully the love for it will grow!

notunprepared said:

I can't keep track of all the names. I'm also still a newbie, so I don't understand all the skating elements yet just in singles. Pairs is that much more complicated.

I am now following the Aussie pair Harley Windsor and Katya Alexandrovska , because he's our first Indigenous Olympic skater, and it's nice that she became an aussie citizen to skate the Olympics with him. It's a good story, and they're just out of juniors so I can follow their senior careers from the beginning.

But the rest of the field...too many people, too many relationships to keep track of. I also find it difficult to follow more than one person on the ice, and what they're actually doing.

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You need a figure skating buddy, when I work at the ice, my colleague always looks at the male and me the female, works like a charm. We afterwards tell each other what happened

Probably the same reason why singles tennis is more popular than doubles tennis.

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What reason would that be?

Are you talking of individual skill, because I would disagree with that. I feel that pairs skaters are just as good athletes as single ones, despite the reputation they have (2nd class). Also in tennis there are amazing doubles players, who had a pretty decent career at singles too. That so few play both is more the problem of the tight schedules and effort that it takes. At the Slams where most top players focus on singes, you would need to play almost every day for two weeks - that is just unhealthy.

But also the price money plays a role, the incentive is lower and advancing in singles to just round two at the Aussie Open 2018, equals the price money for the quarters in doubles at the women's game and you don´t need to share it!

mrrice said:

Well, from my standpoint, it has become difficult to get attached to a US pair because they never seem to last more than a couple of seasons. I finally gave up hope when Caitlin and John broke up after winning Nationals in 2011. Most of you know that that was the last time I went to Nationals.....I was so excited for the future......Then, they broke up. After that, I stopped putting my heart into pairs. It's the volatility that keeps me from becoming invested in pairs and unfortunately, I don't see things improving in the US.

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That's exactly when I lost interest in the U.S.. I was so excited for that pairing then John broke it off. I was mad...yeah I admit and also done. However I have only 3 pairs that I watch.

yoloaxel said:

It's strange for me to see that pairs don't get much attention because it was the discipline that first drew me to ice skating (thank you, Volosozhar/Trankov!) - I find it really exciting, hopefully the love for it will grow!

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Ditto. But I was from an earlier era... still, pairs was my favorite discipline. I found it inspiring that Irina Rodnina could win all of those titles over the course of a decade. I loved the beauty of the Protopopov's. Tai and Randy were a great story. Sadly, it was like I lost a book right at the final chapter and couldn't finish it.

Then it was G/G and M/D...

Then B/S and S/P in the lead-up to Salt Lake City... and the drama that ensued.

Objectively, I think that CoP lifted the competition in every discipline other than pairs. With pairs, the "new system" seemed to suck the life out of performances.

I rarely watch nowadays. I caught most of the pairs in the SP at Skate America, mainly out of curiosity. I didn't bother with watching any of the LP.

If a trusted forum-friend on GS recommends something really special, then I'll catch a video. Otherwise, my time is better spent doing something else.

chapis said:

Yes, I am almost sure that the lack of popularity are the countries at the top. And though D/R and T/M are from Canda and Russia (both with a lot of figure skating fans), those pairs are not so charismatic. I wonder how popular are S/H in China? , probably they have a lot of fans in China but not many of them come to this forum, unfortunately.

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I beg to differ. As I've already posted, I don't watch pairs very much any longer... but S/H are the exception to that rule. I really, really like this pair. I thought Bridge Over Troubled Water was exceptional. The best pair program in a decade.

lavender said:

That's exactly when I lost interest in the U.S.. I was so excited for that pairing then John broke it off. I was mad...yeah I admit and also done. However I have only 3 pairs that I watch.

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This will, I'm sure, be an unpopular opinion, but I wish Jason Brown would quit singles and skate pairs.

His lines and skating skills are wonderful, and I think he'd make a splash if he could find a good partner with similar talents.

He could quit with the quad jumps and bulk up for lifts and throws. I think he could be very good.

WeakAnkles said:

One of the reasons that the women tend to bore me is that technically,they may be more consistent, but women were doing triple/triple combos upteen years ago. Nothing really all THAT new there. And they're the one discipline which really hasn't had the bar raised to the same degree.

Marketability is also a tricky thing (my sister works in advertising, so I hear a lot about this!). If you're talking about the US, Pairs has always been a poor relation. You really have to go back to the days of Tai and Randy and maybe the Caruthers to find teams that really had any true marketability...in the US market. "The Truck Driver and The Waitress" made for a fine Olympics puff piece, but just how marketable were they really?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Click to expand...

See, that just shows you can't please everyone. Or in this case, maybe you can't please anyone. Ladies bores me because it's all about the 3-3s and the artistry in all but a few cases is gone. Actually, post-6.0 it all bores me. I'm just back 'cause it's an Olympic year!