2017 GPF Men's SP

Mrs. P · Dec 7, 2017

Leelee425 said:
But I agree on the Jason comments, I’d love to see him do an energetic short without a Broadway or movie or other specific character reference. I don’t know that I would have chosen Hamilton for him in an Olympic year, he clearly loves it which always helps sell the performance but I’m thinking he would have been better going with something more traditional and having Hamilton as an exhibition instead.

For the record, my favorite Jason short program is actually from his junior days and I think this might fit the bill you're asking for. Guys, remember when the JGP channel was just a guy with a handcam? How far it's come along! 2011-2012 JGPF

I understand the logic of Hamilton being more of a exhibition program, but given his scores here, audiences and judges do seem to like it.

kevinVchicago · Dec 7, 2017

el henry said:
No, because Jason doesn't mime.

Next question. [emoji3]

Haha, yes he does! He does a whole miming section at the beginning of his SP with pencil, paper and I don't know what else lol [emoji23]

qwertyskates · Dec 7, 2017

Mrs. P said:
For the record, my favorite Jason short program is actually from his junior days and I think this might fit the bill you're asking for. Guys, remember when the JGP channel was just a guy with a handcam? How far it's come along! 2011-2012 JGPF

I understand the logic of Hamilton being more of a exhibition program, but given his scores here, audiences and judges do seem to like it.

Yeah, I saw that one, nice, but still too many hand gestures near the face. :laugh:

I would love for Jason to do something equally fierce without SMILING to shut those German commentators up.:yes2:

Try running that junior program of Jason, turning off the music, and watch it with the score of Chariots of Fire... :love:

try it, Jason looks Olympian!

MaiKatze · Dec 7, 2017

If anyone watched the german ONE stream this morning and is curious about what that guy talked about all the time - I translated the commentary of Shoma's (yeah, who would've guessed) short program here.

If you prefer Eurosport commentary, I also translated that from german, for, surprise, surprise: Shoma Uno's short.

kevinVchicago · Dec 7, 2017

qwertyskates said:
You're right, he adds a lot of gestures which become details in the execution of the intricate choreography. This is actually more difficult to do while moving at such speed across the ice.

My problem is with the skates that come to a virtual stop with the hands and face doing the "work" to create feeeeliiings.... :sarcasm: a little is fine, but not for a break or to kill time.

If I remember correctly the SP begins with him miming in (near) stillness.

For the person who asked, what he's doing is the definition in fact of miming. (I'm an actor, guys, I know a thing or two about it.) [emoji23]

Leelee425 · Dec 7, 2017

Mrs. P said:
I understand the logic of Hamilton being more of a exhibition program, but given his scores here, audiences and judges do seem to like it.

Your right, and why fix what is not broke. When I first heard this was his music selection I didn’t think it would have wide enough appeal, but apparently I was wrong.

Btw did anyone skate clean in their short? I’ve only got Nathan to go and so far nobody has gone clean.

kevinVchicago · Dec 7, 2017

Mrs. P said:
Jason does a lot of gestures in the program. But is that miming?

Yes, it is.

Mrs. P · Dec 7, 2017

kevinVchicago said:
If I remember correctly the SP begins with him miming in (near) stillness.

For the person who asked, what he's doing is the definition in fact of miming. (I'm an actor, guys, I know a thing or two about it.) [emoji23]

It was me that asked. Ok. Jason is miming.

In any case, I wasn't one of the posters that complained about Evgenia, et al, miming. I understand why people do complain cause they think they do it to excess, but I don't personally feel that strongly about it.

He got the third highest PCS (barely), so I guess the miming or whatever you want to call it was OK.

qwertyskates · Dec 7, 2017

kevinVchicago said:
If I remember correctly the SP begins with him miming in (near) stillness.

For the person who asked, what he's doing is the definition in fact of miming. (I'm an actor, guys, I know a thing or two about it.) [emoji23]

I noticed the hand miming bit in the beginning, he didn't do it as much in the rest of the program, but still alot of pointing, shrugging, etc. he did it to bring the program alive.

That's my criticism, it's not a good piece of music if the skater has to carry it, pump it up, flesh it out, etc., rather than the music helping to lift the skater to higher PCS, like Shoma's 4 Seasons.

Mrs. P · Dec 7, 2017

qwertyskates said:
I noticed the hand miming bit in the beginning, he didn't do it as much in the rest of the program, but still alot of pointing, shrugging, etc. he did it to bring the program alive.

That's my criticism, it's not a good piece of music if the skater has to carry it, pump it up, flesh it out, etc., rather than the music helping to lift the skater to higher PCS, like Shoma's 4 Seasons.

I don't know if I agree with that. I certainly understand if it's a personal preference to not use gestures and movements in the choreography. But I don't think it means it's not a good song to skate to or that Jason's performance in the SP should be marked down because of it. I think a lot of the additions are based on the actual movements of the musical, so it's not like Rohene just threw in there for fun.

FWIW, I have shown Jason's program to a few of my Hamilton fanatic friends and they really liked it and think he did a good job interpreting the music.

Thankfully there's two programs -- I think Jason said that in an interview once -- he doesn't expect people to like both programs but like them to be different to reach a wider array of people. He even said something like "If they hate both my programs, I try to do something different, so maybe next season!"

qwertyskates · Dec 7, 2017

Mrs. P said:
I don't know if I agree with that. I certainly understand if it's a personal preference to not use gestures and movements in the choreography. But I don't think it means it's not a good song to skate to or that Jason's performance in the SP should be marked down because of it. I think a lot of the additions are based on the actual movements of the musical, so it's not like Rohene just threw in there for fun.

FWIW, I have shown Jason's program to a few of my Hamilton fanatic friends and they really liked it and think he did a good job interpreting the music.

Thankfully there's two programs -- I think Jason said that in an interview once -- he doesn't expect people to like both programs but like them to be different to reach a wider array of people. He even said something like "If they hate both my programs, I try to do something different, so maybe next season!"

Nowhere at all did I mention anything about marking down. Hamilton is fun, but it lacks heft next to say, 4 Seasons or Elegy or Chopin. It is about having the right warhorse that actually helps to carry the skater and buoy his PCS because audiences can't help but feel the lifting waves of intensity of the masterpiece and if skated well, will associate the swelling emotions as perfect unison with the skating hopefully leading to standing ovations :drama:

. It works only for high PCS skaters, I think. This is why Turandot and POTO are used to death...the challenge is to find a piece as exquisite that no one has skated to for the next season...

Mrs. P · Dec 7, 2017

qwertyskates said:
Nowhere at all did I mention anything about marking down. Hamilton is fun, but it lacks heft next to say, 4 Seasons or Elegy or Chopin. It is about having the right warhorse that actually helps to carry the skater and buoy his PCS because audiences can't help but feel the lifting waves of intensity of the masterpiece and if skated well, will associate the swelling emotions as perfect unison with the skating. It works only for high PCS skaters, I think. This is why Turandot and POTO are used to death...the challenge is to find a piece as exquisite that no one has skated to for the next season...

I'm just a bit confused here. Is your your criticism mainly of the music selection because you feel it downplays Jason's PCS qualities? Or that Jason lacks depth in this particular program when he's capable of showing more?

I think that's what you're getting at, but maybe I'm wrong.

I get the criticism and certainly don't expect everyone to love the program. As I said, I actually prefer the FS far more than the SP personally, but I think there's room to show a more effervescent form of skating. What you're saying would be more of an issue if he was doing two Hamilton/Broadway programs this season, but he's not.

ETA: I'm also a bit sleep deprived cause I only got 3 hours of sleep last night to watch GPF, so I appreciate your patience for whatever denseness I'm showing at the moment. :laugh:

We have to do this all over again tomorrow. I'm tempted to just go to bed after dinner.

ETA2: I remember your earlier point that you wish that his SPs were just as good as his recent FS programs, so my two programs point doesn't have any relevance anyway. :Laugh:

Shandy · Dec 7, 2017

qwertyskates said:
I recently met an expert music technician on filmscores who had worked with one of the technicians of Vangelis so it suddenly struck me no one has ever skated to this even in an Olympic year, or ever. It is such a special piece, Vangelis did it for his Olympian father. Everyone is always looking for an Ace music to mark a special year. I'd rather a beautiful skater skate to this though, to do it justice.

Unfortunately I can't ever think of CoF without now thinking of QWOP... :slink:

Mrs. P said:
For the record, my favorite Jason short program is actually from his junior days and I think this might fit the bill you're asking for. Guys, remember when the JGP channel was just a guy with a handcam? How far it's come along! 2011-2012 JGPF

I understand the logic of Hamilton being more of a exhibition program, but given his scores here, audiences and judges do seem to like it.

Ah, Lim Eun-soo's LP is to that music this year! :luv17:

blue_idealist · Dec 7, 2017

qwertyskates said:
I recently met an expert music technician on filmscores who had worked with one of the technicians of Vangelis so it suddenly struck me no one has ever skated to this even in an Olympic year, or ever. It is such a special piece, Vangelis did it for his Olympian father. Everyone is always looking for an Ace music to mark a special year. I'd rather a beautiful skater skate to this though, to do it justice.

I remember a skater or pairs team with a cut of Vangelis at the start of their program, although not the whole song. I think it was Kavaguti/Smirnov, although I could be wrong. Can anyone help me out here with this info?

qwertyskates · Dec 7, 2017

Mrs. P said:
I'm just a bit confused here. Is your your criticism mainly of the music selection because you feel it downplays Jason's PCS qualities? Or that Jason lacks depth in this particular program when he's capable of showing more?

I think that's what you're getting at, but maybe I'm wrong.

It's both actually...Jason isn't taken as seriously because he does "cheerful" alot, and unfortunately it is associated with being "lightweight". The German commentators posted by MaiKatz sort of illustrates what I'm saying, not that it reflects what I think of Jason's skating. To me he has the potential to be a really exquisite skater. His SP is anything but.... :slink:

I think his stature will rise if he starts tackling unique but heart racing warhorses (i.e. not Turandot, POTO, Les Miserables, etc.) and he of all skaters can do it.

Mrs. P · Dec 7, 2017

qwertyskates said:
It's both actually...Jason isn't taken as seriously because he does "cheerful" alot, and unfortunately it is associated with "lightweight". I think his stature will rise if he starts tackling unique warhorses (i.e. not Turandot, POTO, Les Miserables, etc.)

By judges? fans? both? I guess his PCS can be higher relative to the top top men, but they're really high in spite of 1.) his technical content and 2.) those cheerful programs.

Also, isn't unique warhorse a bit of an oxymoron?

In all seriousness, I would not mind seeing serious Jason either. Maybe a senior version of something like this (though yes, there is a lot of arm movements, LOL)

qwertyskates · Dec 7, 2017

blue_idealist said:
I remember a skater or pairs team with a cut of Vangelis at the start of their program, although not the whole song. I think it was Kavaguti/Smirnov, although I could be wrong. Can anyone help me out here with this info?

It's one of those pieces with several tracks going on at the same time, and yet they come together beautifully - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Seimei has this same quality - you can pick up so many nuances but at the same time, the bass is there to "ground" it like a heartbeat. The reverse is also true, the music also highlights nuances of movements as if it accompanies the skater. I think such types of music are perfect for figure skating because they flow and can be interpreted at so many levels. They are the "can't do wrong" pieces. :laugh:

samkrut@mail.ru · Dec 7, 2017

kevinVchicago said:
Is there ever controversy over Jason Brown's miming? (Just noticed it tonight and I was curious because I know miming is a constant flashpoint on the forum.)

Only when done by Medvedeva and to lesser extent by Tsurskaya

el henry · Dec 7, 2017

So even though I have a million other things to do, I’d rather do research for posting on skating boards: :biggrin:

Mime: turns out there’s two definitions, and therein lies the posts:yes: One is “the technique of suggesting action, character or emotion without words.” There is no derogatory or bad association with this term. Well, yes, Jason suggests character and emotion without words beautifully: through his skating, through his gestures, through his expressions. Does he do that kind of miming: you bet.

The other definition, which I used more probably because of my classical associations, is mime as in farce or “mimicry” (same Greek root, mimos). There is a negative association to this word, as in “over the top”. Not at all what Jason does, and hence my reaction that he does not mime.

In any event, since I have watched Zhenya skate maybe three times in my life, beats me what people say or what they mean when they talk about her. I do know that she loves Jason and calls him (not ironically, but as a compliment) “Sunny boy”, and that’s good enough for me:agree:

shine · Dec 7, 2017

el henry said:
Ach, the junior men; I love them, but those spins.:roll9:

And hey, if the spins were *that* easy, everyone would be doing them. Nathan has improved by leaps and bounds, (see I can give props) but *that* SP the best of all the men this year? The height of musical artistry and expression? No, I certainly can't go there.:noshake: Not even the best among the men with "Hey I can do a bunch of quads" PCS boost.

I need to see good spins, people!

Nathan’s spins have actually regressed considerably since his junior days.

2017 GPF Men's SP

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

kevinVchicago

qwertyskates

MaiKatze

kevinVchicago

Leelee425

kevinVchicago

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

qwertyskates

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

qwertyskates

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Shandy

blue_idealist

qwertyskates

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

qwertyskates

[email protected]

Medalist

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

shine

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