Wagner Goes Back to LaLa Land | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Wagner Goes Back to LaLa Land

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
A new program a month before nationals is proof that her past concussions do not inhibit learning new choreography, as some have insinuated.
 

Manuel Pablo Arnao

Figure Skating Fan & Real Estate Agent in LA!
On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
A new program a month before nationals is proof that her past concussions do not inhibit learning new choreography, as some have insinuated.

Some have insinuated? She herself said it and offered it as an excuse. She lied. Plain and simple.
 

MRani

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
A new program a month before nationals is proof that her past concussions do not inhibit learning new choreography, as some have insinuated.

She already learned and trained this program over the entire summer and didn’t switch to MR until around September. So she’s not learning brand new choreo. And Ashley didn’t use her concussions as a reason for going back to MR. She said the character in MR had more depth and she liked the hint of darkness in that program. The LLL character was too light for her at the time. You can criticize her for changing her mind about that if you want, but I think it’s understandable for her to want a lighter character after the emotional roller coaster of SA.
 

MRani

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Some have insinuated? She herself said it and offered it as an excuse. She lied. Plain and simple.

No, she didn’t. She said concussions make it more difficult for her memorize new choreo, not that it makes it impossible. The interview about the concussions was in the ESPN body issue and had nothing to do with her program changes, she was just speaking generally about how injuries affected her career. She never used it as a reason for going back to MR.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I don't think anyone should say she lied about her concussions affecting her memory. As long as LLL has very similar choreography to MR or last season's LP, she should be fine.

Irina Slutskaya debuted her Don Quixote LP at the 2000 GPF. She basically changed the dress, her facial expressions, and the arm movements to create a whole different vibe from her Carmen LP that season. Maybe Ashley can do the same and minimize the amount of new moves she has to learn.
 

temadd

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 19, 2015
Let's be clear, I know it's already been said, but seems to need to be said again:

1. Ashley already knows and has trained La La Land

2. She said nothing about her memory being a reason for switching programs and I have never heard her use it as an excuse for any skating problems. (I have heard or read most or all of her interviews in the past several years)

3. Difficulty with retaining new memories after concussions is a real thing and Ashley has had multiple concussions.
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
She said concussions make it more difficult for her memorize new choreo, not that it makes it impossible.

Just for the record, "inhibit" can mean hinder or restrain (make more difficult) as well as prevent (make impossible). I myself would never use it in the "make impossible" sense and was surprised to see that meaning. Probably the poster who first used is used it in the sense that I would.
 

johnsmith72

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Absolutely the right decision Ashley! This season so far has felt pretty cursed/disappointing for many skaters... some fresh, upbeat music is a good route to go for Ashley
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Well good, bad or indifferent it is Ashley's decision. I hope it works for her but I have to admit it takes a lot of energy when you are tryig to decide between programs on top of practicing the programs. Maybe MR wasn't powerful enough (hint hint Virtue and Moir who many feel are too good for MR and thus they will lose to P/C). But Ashley sells MR. Anyways with the status in the US being such a mess Ashley still should survive and make it to the olympics.
 

MRani

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Just for the record, "inhibit" can mean hinder or restrain (make more difficult) as well as prevent (make impossible). I myself would never use it in the "make impossible" sense and was surprised to see that meaning. Probably the poster who first used is used it in the sense that I would.

I agree with your definition of “inhibit.” However, the original poster was clearly using the fact that Ashley’s changing her program as inarguable evidence that she was dishonest about concussions inhibiting her memory. The context of that statement implies a much stricter definition of “inhibit,” which I am objecting to.
 

AnalyticalMind

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Agreed with the rest of the thread in that this is a good idea to reshape the narrative around her season in the media, as well as in her own mind.

A few other instances of successful late-season program-changing:
* Shizuka Arakawa (2005-06): Turned her Fantaisie Impomptu long program into a short program, and debuted her Turandot program AT THE OLYMPICS (same music but a different cut and very different choreography from her 2004 Worlds winning FS)... not to mention she changed coaches in that time between Nationals and Olympics as well.
* Miki Ando (2010-11): Changed out her SP in the 2 weeks before GPF. It was a bit tentative for GPF but she had it in time for Japanese Nationals (which are several weeks earlier than US Nationals).

I'm not too worried and, given that she seemed in need of a fresh page, I see more upside.
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
I agree with your definition of “inhibit.” However, the original poster was clearly using the fact that Ashley’s changing her program as inarguable evidence that she was dishonest about concussions inhibiting her memory. The context of that statement implies a much stricter definition of “inhibit,” which I am objecting to.

Leafygreens used the word first, and JackWalker was the one who said she was dishonest. I agree with you: Ashley never said it was impossible to learn new choreography (if she had, she'd have been doing the same programs for the last ten years, which she hasn't), but it is difficult. I think leafygreens may have been using it in the sense we would, but JackWalker misinterpreted the word and then used that as proof of dishonesty.

I'm not a big fan of Ashley, but I think she's been quite frank and honest about this.
 

lappo

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Agreed with the rest of the thread in that this is a good idea to reshape the narrative around her season in the media, as well as in her own mind.

A few other instances of successful late-season program-changing:
* Shizuka Arakawa (2005-06): Turned her Fantaisie Impomptu long program into a short program, and debuted her Turandot program AT THE OLYMPICS (same music but a different cut and very different choreography from her 2004 Worlds winning FS)... not to mention she changed coaches in that time between Nationals and Olympics as well.
* Miki Ando (2010-11): Changed out her SP in the 2 weeks before GPF. It was a bit tentative for GPF but she had it in time for Japanese Nationals (which are several weeks earlier than US Nationals).

I'm not too worried and, given that she seemed in need of a fresh page, I see more upside.

Basically, all Ashley needs is N. Morozov! :biggrin: I'm joking of course, there are other precedents and we might add Gracie complete change of program when she switched to Frank Carroll shortly before Nationals (some might add more details for the exact timing). I hope that she the program turns great for her and most of all I hope that the decision of the team will come out from the podium and not in some decision from the back rooms, which are only harmful for the sport and its perception from the audience.
 

MRani

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Leafygreens used the word first, and JackWalker was the one who said she was dishonest. I agree with you: Ashley never said it was impossible to learn new choreography (if she had, she'd have been doing the same programs for the last ten years, which she hasn't), but it is difficult. I think leafygreens may have been using it in the sense we would, but JackWalker misinterpreted the word and then used that as proof of dishonesty.

I'm not a big fan of Ashley, but I think she's been quite frank and honest about this.

That’s fair. I’m glad we agree that Ashley’s been honest about her concussion issues without ever using it as an excuse :)
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
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Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
Ashley is a smart girl knowing well how to get her attention from the media and her fans. However, the cost for changing it in the middle of the season will be not easy especially in the Olympic season, but I guess she thought it will be worth taking the risk. Go Ashley! :hap10:

I think she likes to live dangerously, just a little. I always thought Gracie's Grieg sp was the best vehicle for her, and I thought her performances of it were related to not overthinking. May such a dynamic be true for Ashley!

Go Ashley!
 

NAOTMAA

Medalist
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
I wonder if there was some behind the scenes nudging from some USFSA officials or international judges to dump MR. Perhaps they were told that lighting ain't striking twice and it would be wise to go in another direction. And since La La Land had already been choreographed it was easy to resurrect that rather then quickly put together another LP :think:
 

FSLover17

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Well, she changed free skates back to a previous program in 2014 and I thought that was the right choice so hopefully this one will be too!
 

xeyra

Constant state
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
I'm very curious about the Bourne-choreographed La La Land program for Ashley, so on one hand I'm looking forward to this. But it does seem like such a risk before Nationals since she has no competition experience with this program and hasn't tested it internationally. And as we've sadly seen with Karen, abrupt program changes do not help consistency.

Wishing her all the best with this change, though. Whatever she feels more comfortable with.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
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Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
Here's a relevant quote from Ashley in the Sept. 20 NBC Sports article:

“I love the music. I still do,” she said. “I just think that it was very much like an inspirational kind of a setup. I loved that. I loved the choreography. I can’t speak highly enough of the music. But I just know myself, and I know that after a couple of months of just one emotion, I get bored.” http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/09/20/ashley-wagner-moulin-rouge-la-la-land-free-skate/

Well, Ashley ... now you aren't bored! :laugh::luv17: Seriously, I can relate.

But the important thing is that, at this moment in time, after the cycle of pain, determination, angst, and finally seeing the need to w/d from SA so as not to risk more injury, she now can experience the inspirational, light, happy program as she trains it and performs it. According to the "Making of Ashley Wagner's La La Land" video, that's exactly what attracted her to the music in the first place. For an Olympic year,

"I wanted something that was positive, lighter ... and I wanted to be able to enjoy every second of it."
http://www.rockerskating.com/
 
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