IOC's banning of Russia from 2018 Olympics | Page 17 | Golden Skate

IOC's banning of Russia from 2018 Olympics

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moriel

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Mar 18, 2015
I don't think it is possible to skate as a neutral athlete in the team competition, and later to represent Spain. It is not logical. But we will see.

I agree, iwould think that he would need to compete under olympic flag all way through.
 

GGFan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Okay.. I don't know if this has been discussed earlier but what implications does this have for the team event? Right now I'm assuming Russia can compete as a team just not under their own flag and they will be called the Olympic team? In that case I think they should have the right to get Javi. I say this because I want Javi to have a medal and skating for the Olympic team(Russia) would get him one. (The last part about Javi was said tongue in cheek btw)

Actually.. in Rio several countries competed under the neutral flag didn't they? So theoretically if one of those countries had say a fantastic goalie for the women's hockey team could they join the Russian women?

They are not truly neutral athletes. They are Olympics Athletes from Russia (OARs) so the potential athletes are limited to that country. They'll be competing as normal but the Olympic flag will be displayed and the Olympic anthem will play if they win gold.
 

Tolstoj

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Nov 21, 2015
Okay.. I don't know if this has been discussed earlier but what implications does this have for the team event? Right now I'm assuming Russia can compete as a team just not under their own flag and they will be called the Olympic team? In that case I think they should have the right to get Javi. I say this because I want Javi to have a medal and skating for the Olympic team(Russia) would get him one. (The last part about Javi was said tongue in cheek btw)

Actually.. in Rio several countries competed under the neutral flag didn't they? So theoretically if one of those countries had say a fantastic goalie for the women's hockey team could they join the Russian women?

My prediction is that OAR athletes won't be able to compete at the Team Event because it's not an actual country.

It seems Russia is accepting IOC decision and will pay the fines. I think it’s reasonable to allow OAR to carry Russian flag at the closing ceremony as these are clean athletes. It would encourage all the best and clean Russian athletes to come and compete.

I think that's good, Russia should accept they made a big mistake and these are the consequences, it is what it is.

It sucks mostly for the athletes who really fought hard to be at the Olympics, and now it's a mess: we don't know if scores will change for OAR athletes (it SHOULDN'T), we don't know who is going, who stays...
 

drivingmissdaisy

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My prediction is that OAR athletes won't be able to compete at the Team Event because it's not an actual country.

Unless OAR can't participate in any team competition, such as ice hockey, I don't see why the team event in figure skating would be treated any differently.
 

moriel

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Mar 18, 2015
My prediction is that OAR athletes won't be able to compete at the Team Event because it's not an actual country.



I think that's good, Russia should accept they made a big mistake and these are the consequences, it is what it is.

It sucks mostly for the athletes who really fought hard to be at the Olympics, and now it's a mess: we don't know if scores will change for OAR athletes (it SHOULDN'T), we don't know who is going, who stays...

I dont think russia will accept the mistake, since not clear if they actually made it (for instance, notice they didnt admit the gov doping scheme to reinstate RUSADA). But they will do the possible to make amends for the athletes (and ofc the national showoff).
 

Anni234

Ina Bauer
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My prediction is that OAR athletes won't be able to compete at the Team Event because it's not an actual country.

Wasn't it already said that they can compete in the team event as the team of Olympic Athletes of Russia? Has something changed? As far as I know this was already said in the initial statement, but this topic keeps popping up.
 

moriel

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Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Some very interesting questions in that article.
And even if IOC answers those specific questions, it just shows how things can easily escalate from small things which of will not be all discussed with IOC beforehand.
 

Kittosuni

Medalist
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Potential problem/ obstacles the Russian athletes faces:

1. Selection process will be done in mid-late January and nominations then approvals will be done only in February. Remember competition starts Feb 9. So don't be shock if some skaters who got approval won't be able to compete because their papers didn't "meet" the deadline.

2. Russia can send list of names who they want to be approved but still the committee will decide who can go even the athlete is not on the "preferred list" Russia submitted.

3. Valerie Fourneyron. She has been unapologetically campaigning for a blanket ban of Russia since Rio 2016. its not a coincidence why she is part of the 3-man committee. Remember the committee is given 100% power to decide who compete so I believe a slightest doubt will get you off the list. Even though Bobrova was eventually cleared of doping, the fact that she was investigated creates "doubt" to her bid. I have serious question if she will be permitted to compete.

I'm really expecting the committee will make it hard even for the clean athletes to make the OAR team especially since some of them have clear bias and already made their minds that no Russian athletes should be in the Olympics.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
Okay.. I don't know if this has been discussed earlier but what implications does this have for the team event? Right now I'm assuming Russia can compete as a team just not under their own flag and they will be called the Olympic team? In that case I think they should have the right to get Javi. I say this because I want Javi to have a medal and skating for the Olympic team(Russia) would get him one. (The last part about Javi was said tongue in cheek btw)

Actually.. in Rio several countries competed under the neutral flag didn't they? So theoretically if one of those countries had say a fantastic goalie for the women's hockey team could they join the Russian women?

While I think this would be interesting (and I understand you're just being tongue in cheek and hypothetical here), poaching/using him for a better shot at gold would also definitely be considered cheating.

As a flag bearer for Spain, I'm 110% certain Javier wouldn't betray his country like that (seeing as how as soon as he competed as an independent he could no longer compete for Spain in the individual - can't have it both ways).

The point of the Indepedent Olympic athletes is to still allow athletes to compete - not to create stacked teams of strong athletes from underrepresented countries because it conveniently boosts medal chances.

It's also important to note that the Independent Olympic team does not equal Russia ... but comprises a contingent that includes athletes from Russia.
 

pearly

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Sep 1, 2017
It's also important to note that the Independent Olympic team does not equal Russia ... but comprises a contingent that includes athletes from Russia.

But I thought they were going as Olympic Athletes from Russia. I wonder if they would be separate from other athletes with no flag in case there were some like in Rio. I think yes.
 

GGFan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Potential problem/ obstacles the Russian athletes faces:

1. Selection process will be done in mid-late January and nominations then approvals will be done only in February. Remember competition starts Feb 9. So don't be shock if some skaters who got approval won't be able to compete because their papers didn't "meet" the deadline.

2. Russia can send list of names who they want to be approved but still the committee will decide who can go even the athlete is not on the "preferred list" Russia submitted.

3. Valerie Fourneyron. She has been unpologetically campaigning for a blanket ban of Russia since Rio 2016. its not a coincidence why she is part of the 3-man committee. Remember the committee is given 100% power to decide who compete so I believe a slightest doubt will get you off the list. Even though Bobrova was eventually cleared of doping, the fact that she was investigated creates "doubt" to her bid. I have serious question if she will be permitted to compete.

I'm really expecting the committee will make it hard even for the clean athletes to make the OAR team especially since some of them have clear bias and already made their minds that no Russian athletes should be in the Olympics.

They're going to have to be really careful here. CAS has stated its disdain for double jeopardy kinds of punishments when it struck down the "Osaka Rule" years back. Even if an athlete was found guilty (which Brobova wasn't) as long as they completed their sentence they can't be kept out of the Olympics.

It will be very interesting to see how the committee navigates that. I think they're trying to get around it by saying that this is about the IOC having "invitation" power to the Olympics but we'll see . . .
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
But I thought they were going as Olympic Athletes from Russia. I wonder if they would be separate from other athletes with no flag in case there were some like in Rio. I think yes.

If we were to draw a Venn diagram with Independent Olympic athletes on the left circle and Russian athletes on the right circle the overlap would be Olympic Athletes from Russia.

However this also means that Olympic Athletes from Russia are a subsect of the Independent athletes.

And even if it is only Russian athletes on the Independent Olympic team (I'm sure there will be others) it is not equivalent to Russia because if they medal, they are medalling as individuals representing the Olympic team and Russia will not have earned any medal, or have their anthem played in the case of gold medals. In official medal tables there will be no distinction as to what results were that of OAFRs or other Independent athletes.

I think it's suitable that clean Russian athletes still have the opportunity to compete but the Russian anthem will not be played.

Yes, they are distinct from athletes with no country affiliation (e.g. refugees) but they will have to be treated as Olympic team athletes. They are fortunate that the IOC was merciful in permitting them to be referred to as Olympic Athletes from Russia so at least there is some tangible presence of Russia in the Olympics and athletes will be less inclined to protest.

Although part of me wished Kavaguti/Smirnoff competed and made the team so mid-program she could dramatically rip open the chest of her dress to reveal a Russian Flag with a heart on it in protest. :laugh: :drama:
 

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Potential problem/ obstacles the Russian athletes faces:

1. Selection process will be done in mid-late January and nominations then approvals will be done only in February. Remember competition starts Feb 9. So don't be shock if some skaters who got approval won't be able to compete because their papers didn't "meet" the deadline.

2. Russia can send list of names who they want to be approved but still the committee will decide who can go even the athlete is not on the "preferred list" Russia submitted.

3. Valerie Fourneyron. She has been unpologetically campaigning for a blanket ban of Russia since Rio 2016. its not a coincidence why she is part of the 3-man committee. Remember the committee is given 100% power to decide who compete so I believe a slightest doubt will get you off the list. Even though Bobrova was eventually cleared of doping, the fact that she was investigated creates "doubt" to her bid. I have serious question if she will be permitted to compete.

I'm really expecting the committee will make it hard even for the clean athletes to make the OAR team especially since some of them have clear bias and already made their minds that no Russian athletes should be in the Olympics.

Does this mean that Zhenya and Alina have lower chances of going since they are genuine medal contenders?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Does this mean that Zhenya and Alina have lower chances of going since they are genuine medal contenders?

I doubt this. I think Kittosuni is expressing their opinion that they the committee will make it harder.

IMO, I think it's best to start viewing athletes not as medal favourites but as athletes wanting to compete and fulfill their Olympic dream -- the emphasis on medals and winning was what got Russia into this whole mess in the first place.

And if we are being fair to skaters like Sotskova or any other Russian who might qualify as a member of the Independent Olympic team, they should all be submitting their paperwork, or none. Submitting certain skaters makes it blatantly obvious that it's a "done deal" and it doesn't matter how other non-fave Russian athletes do at Nationals because their paperwork wasn't submitted and thus they were left out before even having a chance to earn their spot.
 

YesWay

四年もかけて&#
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Sep 28, 2013
3. Valerie Fourneyron. She has been unpologetically campaigning for a blanket ban of Russia since Rio 2016. its not a coincidence why she is part of the 3-man committee.
"This panel will be guided in its decisions by the following principles:

- No member of the leadership of the Russian Olympic Team at the Olympic Winter Games Sochi 2014 can be included on the invitation list.

- No coach or medical doctor whose athlete has been found to have committed an Anti-Doping Rule Violation can be included on the invitation list. All coaches and medical doctors included on the invitation list must sign a declaration to this effect.

- Any other requirement considered necessary to protect the integrity of the Olympic Games."

(Source)

...and if what you say about Fourneyron is true... and the Chair of that panel is someone who considers banning all Russians to be a requirement, "necessary to protect the integrity of the Olympic Games"...? o_O

I note that another member of the panel will be appointed by WADA - an organisation that at this point, I personally do not consider either impartial or credible :-/
 

Mattieu

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Even though Bobrova was eventually cleared of doping, the fact that she was investigated creates "doubt" to her bid. I have serious question if she will be permitted to compete.

I'm really expecting the committee will make it hard even for the clean athletes to make the OAR team especially since some of them have clear bias and already made their minds that no Russian athletes should be in the Olympics.

Oh my, I hope you are so wrong about Bobrova. She already lost the chance to compete at Worlds through the false doping claim, now to lose the Olympics in her final season would be so tragic, I can't even think this is possible. Stay strong Bobrova, we all love you! :points:
 

volk

Final Flight
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Dec 24, 2007
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