Wagner "furious" on scores | Page 44 | Golden Skate

Wagner "furious" on scores

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I didn't mean any harm or discredit to Ashley. I was just goofing on the bare statement that there is no such thing as deteriorating abilities. Never mind. :cool:
 

NanaPat

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I said that Ashley for USA is what Kaetlyn is for Canada.
However, the way they are treated by their federations is completely different.

I don't think the analogy is correct. Kaetlyn was not done any favors by the judges or federation at 2018 Canadians; her second place finish was absolutely correct and her team selection was absolutely correct. She won her Olympic spot fair and square.

It's true that there was little doubt she would get a spot, but that's because right now the Canadian field drops off rapidly after the two very strong women (Katelyn and Gaby) at the top. A few years ago it was 3 top women (including Alaine). The US field has more skaters who can realistically finish at the top (including some who arguably skated better than Ashley at nationals and were scored worse).

And if you think Katelyn gets assignments based on body of work only, look at 2016. Kaetlyn was making a come-back from a horrendous injury, finished third at nationals, and wasn't sent to worlds.
 

Lipea

Final Flight
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I don't think the analogy is correct. Kaetlyn was not done any favors by the judges or federation at 2018 Canadians; her second place finish was absolutely correct and her team selection was absolutely correct. She won her Olympic spot fair and square.

It's true that there was little doubt she would get a spot, but that's because right now the Canadian field drops off rapidly after the two very strong women (Katelyn and Gaby) at the top. A few years ago it was 3 top women (including Alaine). The US field has more skaters who can realistically finish at the top (including some who arguably skated better than Ashley at nationals and were scored worse).

And if you think Katelyn gets assignments based on body of work only, look at 2016. Kaetlyn was making a come-back from a horrendous injury, finished third at nationals, and wasn't sent to worlds.
I didn't say by any way that Osmond does not deserve OG spot. Indeed, she is one of main contenders for a medal, and it would be insane if they didn't send her even if she bombed at nationals. And again, I did not say that Wagner had to be put to the Oly team ahead of the bronze medal. I said she was clearly robbed the bronze medal, and her fairly deserved ticket to OG.
 

Lipea

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And yes, the analogy is correct - they both did not show their best at the Nationals but did enough to get their OG spot (silver for Osmond and bronze for Wagner)
Gabi was technically stronger than Kaetlyn; Bradie was technically stronger than Ashley.
However, both Kaetlyn and Ashley would be the top picks from their countries in the eyes of international judging that makes their chance for medal more possible than other girls of their federations.
 

NanaPat

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I didn't say by any way that Osmond does not deserve OG spot. Indeed, she is one of main contenders for a medal, and it would be insane if they didn't send her even if she bombed at nationals. And again, I did not say that Wagner had to be put to the Oly team ahead of the bronze medal. I said she was clearly robbed the bronze medal, and her fairly deserved ticket to OG.

Then why bring Kaetlyn into it at all? You first seemed to claim that she isn't as good as Ashley, then said she was treated better than Ashley. I don't think either one is true.

The only similarity between the two skaters is that they both won world silver: Ashley in 2016 on home ice and Kaetlyn in 2017 in Helsinki. Otherwise they are totally different skaters. They have totally different strengths, personalities and career trajectories. They are at different stages of their career. And they skate for different countries with very different competitive fields.
 

Icey

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Nov 28, 2012
Haha, if you hint that Ashley simply is not fit physically, I don't think it is the case. Even at this nationals she had less UR-s than I ever seen from her. She delibirately tried to eliminate them, because one can see how much weight she lost. If she would fix her StSequence and the last spin, and get slightly more in shape to make clean programs I don't see how it would be not at the level of her Boston performances.

That's a lot of if's. Raf has discussed her loss of motivation, which is a big factor in achievement, even to the point of his saying they should part ways if she wasn't going to rededicate herself to "winning".
 

chuckm

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I didn't say by any way that Osmond does not deserve OG spot. Indeed, she is one of main contenders for a medal, and it would be insane if they didn't send her even if she bombed at nationals. And again, I did not say that Wagner had to be put to the Oly team ahead of the bronze medal. I said she was clearly robbed the bronze medal, and her fairly deserved ticket to OG.

Ashley did not skate well at Nationals this year---she was underprepared and it showed; she was robbed of nothing. She got the marks she deserved, as did Karen, Mirai and Bradie. I was there, in the front row, and saw all of them skate.
 

NanaPat

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And yes, the analogy is correct - they both did not show their best at the Nationals but did enough to get their OG spot (silver for Osmond and bronze for Wagner)
Gabi was technically stronger than Kaetlyn; Bradie was technically stronger than Ashley.
However, both Kaetlyn and Ashley would be the top picks from their countries in the eyes of international judging that makes their chance for medal more possible than other girls of their federations.

Well, Osmond did win silver, and Wagner did not win bronze, so the outcomes were different and the analogy breaks down. If Ashley had won bronze and been replaced by the fourth-place finisher, you'd have a complaint. Oh, wait, I seem to remember something like that happening ....
 

millie

Medalist
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Nov 1, 2004
And yes, the analogy is correct - they both did not show their best at the Nationals but did enough to get their OG spot (silver for Osmond and bronze for Wagner)
Gabi was technically stronger than Kaetlyn; Bradie was technically stronger than Ashley.
However, both Kaetlyn and Ashley would be the top picks from their countries in the eyes of international judging that makes their chance for medal more possible than other girls of their federations.







"If ifs and ands were pots and pans, what would we do for thinkers". First of all, Kaetlyn is a world silver medalists, secondly, she won silver at Nationals. Most of all, she was out for a full season with a broken leg and had to learn everything all over again....Kaetlyn earned her spot legitimately ..Ashley thought that she was going to get another free pass to the Olympics and now she is "Furious". No comparison....IMO, Ashley has cut of her nose to spite her face or she bit the hand that feeds her. Sure there is no problem stating your opinion, but sometimes it comes back to bite you...Her fans should get over it and let the games begin...just saying. On that night, may the best skater win and good luck to them all.
 

noskates

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Jun 11, 2012
Isn't it about time we let it go? Everything that could be said about Ashley has been said. She's been vilified quite handily. I'm not sure what everyone is talking about with her being under-trained, not motivated, yada! yada! Never knew there were so many experts and psychologists posting on an ice skating message board. Truly amazing. She didn't get the bronze, she isn't going to the Olympics, she withdrew from 4CCs for unknown and only SPECULATED reasons, and she's having a really crappy 2018 so far. I wish her well. Her Olympic dream didn't come to fruition and regardless of how hard she tried or didn't try this season, her life has been on hold for many, many years for figure skating and she has contributed to the sport. Just wish she was getting a little more respect from a lot of people. She had every right to be furious......just maybe shouldn't have been so outspoken. Ashley, hope you find some peace and stay off your computer and your phone and your tablet and don't read the newspapers or the rags.
 

Manitou

Medalist
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Jan 17, 2014
"If ifs and ands were pots and pans, what would we do for thinkers". First of all, Kaetlyn is a world silver medalists, secondly, she won silver at Nationals. Most of all, she was out for a full season with a broken leg and had to learn everything all over again....Kaetlyn earned her spot legitimacy...Ashley thought that she was going to get another free pass to the Olympics and now she is "Furious". No comparison....IMO, Ashley has cut of her nose to spite her face or she bit the hand that feeds her. Sure there is no problem stating your opinion, but sometimes it comes back to bite you...Her fans should get over it and let the games begin...just saying. On that night, may the best skater win and good luck to them all.

Another thing is she draws too much negative attention on social media by expressing too strong opinion about things. Of course you have a right to express your opinion about social issues, I do it all the time, but if your have a large group of listeners then you need to be prepared for consequences. People are going to bite you back. Lindsey Vonn, whose accomplishment to sports are in a completely different dimension comparing to Ashley's, said recently too much about politics and now she is being grilled alive. Her social reputation is done for life. Lindsey's rival, Anna Fenninger, who was universally loved everywhere on social media, started campaigning on FB about Islamic refugees and then her reputation went abruptly downhill. (downhill - that's her skills lol)

Many here say that athletes have rights to say their opinions just like everybody else. Of course they do. But if you earn your social position with very specific accomplishments, like athletic, scientific, artistic, etc, and then you are abusing this position in other areas not related to your domain, like politics or social issues, then be prepared for a backslash. Especially in very divisive issues.
Best advice - if you earned your position in athletics then stay in athletics. Don't cross your boundaries. Then you will be universally loved. Guaranteed.
 

gsk8

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Jun 21, 2003
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United-States
Yes, this thread has indeed gone on long enough. Time to move on.
 
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