Jason Brown: Post 2018 U.S. Nationals | Golden Skate

Jason Brown: Post 2018 U.S. Nationals

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
OH YES.. I just remembered something I wanted to float by you guys..

Since Javi is retiring :cry: Brian will have room. Does anything think Jason Brown to Brian Orser might be a good idea or is it too late? This is probably it's own thread but I wanted feedback on my idea.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
ancientpeas

Personal opinion only, and I know others will disagree.

It's too late for Jason. He is a beautiful skater, but the technical revolution has passed him by. He's not competitive jumpwise with what was going on 5 years ago... how much harder to catch up... and harder still to meet the standard we'll see in four years?

Jason's biggest fans will point out, correctly, that jumps aren't everything. But eeking out a couple of more points on PCS over the quadrennium is nothing compared to what he could have achieved in a scoring increase with even two reliable quads. We just saw a 13 year old boy get a higher-scoring jumping pass than Jason has achieved in his entire career. Anybody think that boy is going to be putting on the brakes waiting for Jason (or anyone else) to catch up? Sure, Jason would beat him like a drum on PCS today. But four years from now?

The younger US senior men, the ones who'll stick around for another 4 years, will stand in Jason's way. Not to mention a very talented group of rising juniors.

Moving to another coach to push tech would have made sense four years ago. But, the KoRo supporters point out, again correctly, that Jason preferred the warmth and comfort of where he was. Jason chose to remain in an extended family situation, and that was his choice, and good for him if that made him happy. But he was fighting back tears after his USNats free skate, when he had to know that his 2018 Olympic dream was dead for certain.

And I don't think it had to be that way. He should have switched after the 2014 Olympics. There would have been no shortage of coaches clamoring for him. Now, I can't imagine Orser would want to invest the time in him.
 

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
ancientpeas

.

I kept that part because it made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to see my name in bold.:love:

I sort of agree with you. But I love Jason. I think he brings something so special to the ice and want him to get the jumps.

Anyway.. I just started thinking about while watching the SP and I thought I'd ask for feedback.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I kept that part because it made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to see my name in bold.:love:

I sort of agree with you. But I love Jason. I think he brings something so special to the ice and want him to get the jumps.

Anyway.. I just started thinking about while watching the SP and I thought I'd ask for feedback.

You are so sweet and funny.

But, I do wonder about the coaching changes. I wonder how many of the US juniors have Orser's number? For their sake, I hope a lot do.

I think Andrew Torgeshev would do really well with Brian Orser. Andrew has this old-school Soviet drama and flair to his skating that I find very appealing. But he needs refinement and technical consistency and advancement. i think he's 16. So a good age. He's got a 4T, but not reliable. I've heard he's played around with other quads in practice, but I have not seen.

Does Brian accept American students? Obviously he works with non-Canadians, but I'm not sure he has an American in his camp? Or does he?
 

reneerose

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
OH YES.. I just remembered something I wanted to float by you guys..

Since Javi is retiring :cry: Brian will have room. Does anything think Jason Brown to Brian Orser might be a good idea or is it too late? This is probably it's own thread but I wanted feedback on my idea.

Yes please!
 

topaz emerald

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
You are so sweet and funny.

But, I do wonder about the coaching changes. I wonder how many of the US juniors have Orser's number? For their sake, I hope a lot do.

I think Andrew Torgeshev would do really well with Brian Orser. Andrew has this old-school Soviet drama and flair to his skating that I find very appealing. But he needs refinement and technical consistency and advancement. i think he's 16. So a good age. He's got a 4T, but not reliable. I've heard he's played around with other quads in practice, but I have not seen.

Does Brian accept American students? Obviously he works with non-Canadians, but I'm not sure he has an American in his camp? Or does he?

I can't recall Brian working with any American skater. Someone can correct me.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
ancientpeas

Personal opinion only, and I know others will disagree.

It's too late for Jason. He is a beautiful skater, but the technical revolution has passed him by. He's not competitive jumpwise with what was going on 5 years ago... how much harder to catch up... and harder still to meet the standard we'll see in four years?

Jason's biggest fans will point out, correctly, that jumps aren't everything. But eeking out a couple of more points on PCS over the quadrennium is nothing compared to what he could have achieved in a scoring increase with even two reliable quads. We just saw a 13 year old boy get a higher-scoring jumping pass than Jason has achieved in his entire career. Anybody think that boy is going to be putting on the brakes waiting for Jason (or anyone else) to catch up? Sure, Jason would beat him like a drum on PCS today. But four years from now?

The younger US senior men, the ones who'll stick around for another 4 years, will stand in Jason's way. Not to mention a very talented group of rising juniors.

Moving to another coach to push tech would have made sense four years ago. But, the KoRo supporters point out, again correctly, that Jason preferred the warmth and comfort of where he was. Jason chose to remain in an extended family situation, and that was his choice, and good for him if that made him happy. But he was fighting back tears after his USNats free skate, when he had to know that his 2018 Olympic dream was dead for certain.

And I don't think it had to be that way. He should have switched after the 2014 Olympics. There would have been no shortage of coaches clamoring for him. Now, I can't imagine Orser would want to invest the time in him.

I kept that part because it made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to see my name in bold.:love:

I sort of agree with you. But I love Jason. I think he brings something so special to the ice and want him to get the jumps.

Anyway.. I just started thinking about while watching the SP and I thought I'd ask for feedback.

ancientpeas (since you like being being bolded :biggrin:),

May I offer a contrasting opinion because I love providing cognitive dissonance to TontoK's response (and he knows I appreciate some cognitive dissonance from him).

Jason may not be 17 or 18, but as far as age goes, he's not super old at age 23. Under TontoK's logic, it would have been "too late" for Adam to continue after the 2014 season (he was 24 years old). And now Adam, for better or worse is going to the Olympics at age 28.

I think his poor performances at U.S. Nationals should not be an indicator of the most he is capable of. There is practice videos and are numerous practice reports of Jason hitting all the the jumps, including quad toe. I saw for myself -- Jason can pretty much hit everything -- and the jumps look lovely. It made his FS struggles all the more infuriating. I think Jason's biggest mistake is that he was far too ambitious with his programs. While I appreciated that he brought two new programs to the table, in hindsight, he might have been ahead perhaps repeating the SP and doing Hamilton as a free skate. I think he got distracted by all the external stuff instead of doing what he can do. I think what we saw at U.S. Nationals would have happened under any coach. It was a mental breakdown, that started with the hard fall on the quad.

As to whether Orser will take him or not -- Orser's taken a lot of different skaters under his wing. Frank Carroll speaks highly of him and his work ethic. He has a reputation among figure skaterse as a hard worker. I think any coach would love to take someone of Jason's talent.

Don't be fooled by the warm and fuzzy demeanor -- Jason wants to get those quads in his programs and he wants to do them with the programs he knows he can skate. As for the U.S. men's field. we'll see. I'll remind people that it wasn't long ago that people were saying Jason wasn't going to get out of juniors and wouldn't get very far as a senior. Well, his coaches, for better or worse, helped him get to the Olympics, several Worlds teams, GP medals and several nationals championships. This is a major setback, for sure, but I expect Jason to be back. And that comeback may actually start two weeks from now.

I'm a fan, so obviously that influences my view on the whole thing. And maybe some of you may be right that Jason might not go much further. But I think it's worth waiting and seeing, cause if nothing else, he's absolutely gorgeous to watch -- he's someone you should see live, if you have the chance.

YMMV. :)

And p.s.: Adam Rippon was with BOrser from like 2008 until like 2011 or so. He trained with Yuna! Adam actually developed the rippon Lutz at TCC.
 
Last edited:

auser

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
You are so sweet and funny.

But, I do wonder about the coaching changes. I wonder how many of the US juniors have Orser's number? For their sake, I hope a lot do.

I think Andrew Torgeshev would do really well with Brian Orser. Andrew has this old-school Soviet drama and flair to his skating that I find very appealing. But he needs refinement and technical consistency and advancement. i think he's 16. So a good age. He's got a 4T, but not reliable. I've heard he's played around with other quads in practice, but I have not seen.

Does Brian accept American students? Obviously he works with non-Canadians, but I'm not sure he has an American in his camp? Or does he?
I think Adam Rippon worked with Brain Orser for a while :).
 

auser

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
ancientpeas (since you like being being bold or whatever),

May I offer a contrasting opinion because I love providing cognitive dissonance to TontoK's response (and he knows I appreciate some cognitive dissonance from him).

Jason may not be 17 or 18, but as far as age goes, he's not super old at age 23. Under TontoK's logic, it would have been "too late" for Adam to continue after the 2014 season (he was 24 years old). And now Adam, for better or worse is going to the Olympics at age 28.

I think his poor performances at U.S. Nationals should not be an indicator of the most he is capable of. There is practice videos and are numerous practice reports of Jason hitting all the the jumps, including quad toe. I saw for myself -- Jason can pretty much hit everything -- and the jumps look lovely. It made his FS struggles all the more infuriating. I think Jason's biggest mistake is that he was far too ambitious with his programs. While I appreciated that he brought two new programs to the table, in hindsight, he might have been ahead perhaps repeating the SP and doing Hamilton as a free skate. I think he got distracted by all the external stuff instead of doing what he can do.


As to whether Orser will take him or not -- Orser's taken a lot of different skaters under his wing. Frank Carroll speaks highly of him and his work ethic. He has a reputation among figure skaterse as a hard worker. I think any coach would love to take someone of Jason's talent.

Don't be fooled by the warm and fuzzy demeanor -- Jason wants to get those quads in his programs and he wants to do them with the programs he knows he can skate. As for the U.S. men's field. we'll see. I'll remind people that it wasn't long ago that people were saying Jason wasn't going to get out of juniors and wouldn't get very far as a senior. Well, his coaches, for better or worse, helped him get to the Olympics, several Worlds teams, GP medals and several nationals championships. This is a major setback, for sure, but I expect Jason to be back. And that comeback may actually start two weeks from now.

I'm a fan, so obviously that influences my view on the whole thing. And maybe some of you may be right -- but I think it's worth waiting and seeing, cause if nothing else, he's absolutely gorgeous to watch -- he's someone you should see live, if you have the chance.

YMMV. :)
Great post Mrs P :) Edit to add I hope you did not mean "being bold or whatever" as shade to ancientpeas as I would not thumbs up that(I know this might be a play on ancientpeas humorously saying she liked seeing her name bolded, but it is not quite the same). I think she intended a well meaning suggestion regarding augmenting competitive skills for a USA skater whose artistry she admires. As this post has been moved to the US Nationals thread from the Canadian Nationals Mens SP thread(which I think was a good idea), I felt that this context should be added. No shade intended to you Mrs P. I was just concerned you were conflating ancientpeas views with TontoK's :)
 

beki

Medalist
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
I think Andrew Torgeshev would do really well with Brian Orser. Andrew has this old-school Soviet drama and flair to his skating that I find very appealing. But he needs refinement and technical consistency and advancement. i think he's 16. So a good age. He's got a 4T, but not reliable. I've heard he's played around with other quads in practice, but I have not seen.

YES! I’m praying for this. Who knows who the lucky ones will be. Brian has his pick of students. Maybe he’ll want to lighten his load instead of adding more. I wonder, though, if Javi might stay on at TCC as a coach.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
YES! I’m praying for this. Who knows who the lucky ones will be. Brian has his pick of students. Maybe he’ll want to lighten his load instead of adding more. I wonder, though, if Javi might stay on at TCC as a coach.

Andrew Torgashev actually has been working with Christy Krall part-time. I'll be interested to see what will come out of that continued coaching relationship.
 

shyne

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Does Brian accept American students? Obviously he works with non-Canadians, but I'm not sure he has an American in his camp? Or does he?

Adam Rippon - from December 2008 to March 2010, coached him to win gold at 2009 4CC.
Christina Gao - from 2009 to 2012, coached her to win bronze at the 2009 Junior Grand Prix Final.

I remember Brian in one interview with TSL mentioned teaching American meant paper works, tons and tons of paper works with USFS.
You really need to be someone special for him to go through all that paper works.
 

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
You are so sweet and funny.

But, I do wonder about the coaching changes. I wonder how many of the US juniors have Orser's number? For their sake, I hope a lot do.

I think Andrew Torgeshev would do really well with Brian Orser. Andrew has this old-school Soviet drama and flair to his skating that I find very appealing. But he needs refinement and technical consistency and advancement. i think he's 16. So a good age. He's got a 4T, but not reliable. I've heard he's played around with other quads in practice, but I have not seen.

Does Brian accept American students? Obviously he works with non-Canadians, but I'm not sure he has an American in his camp? Or does he?

Aw..thanks. :)

Actually.. I just remembered something. Orser won't take American students because of the accredition issue. Something about having to do a lot of extra stuff so that the USFSA will recognize him as a coach?
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Adam Rippon - from December 2008 to March 2010, coached him to win gold at 2009 4CC.
Christina Gao - from 2009 to 2012, coached her to win bronze at the 2009 Junior Grand Prix Final.

I remember Brian in one interview with TSL mentioned teaching American meant paper works, tons and tons of paper works with USFS.
You really need to be someone special for him to go through all that paper works.

And Brian usually doesn't even have a contract with his students.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Aw..thanks. :)

Actually.. I just remembered something. Orser won't take American students because of the accredition issue. Something about having to do a lot of extra stuff so that the USFSA will recognize him as a coach?

FWIW there are a few Canadian coaches who coach US pairs/dance: Bruno Marcotte, who coaches Castelli and Tran, and the gang at Gabdois who coach Hubbell and Donahue. I'm not privy to the accreditation process, but since there are a few Canadian coaches who have U.S. students, I can't imagine it is THAT difficult.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Aw..thanks. :)

Actually.. I just remembered something. Orser won't take American students because of the accredition issue. Something about having to do a lot of extra stuff so that the USFSA will recognize him as a coach?

Oh dear, USFSA! :palmf: or :rofl: ?

Typical bureacracy. Paper credentials trump actual results and accomplishments. :palmf:

Brian Orser needs to prove he's a figure skating coach? :rofl:

Maybe they tried to pay him less for not being a real coach.
 

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
ancientpeas (since you like being being bolded :biggrin:),

May I offer a contrasting opinion because I love providing cognitive dissonance to TontoK's response (and he knows I appreciate some cognitive dissonance from him).

Jason may not be 17 or 18, but as far as age goes, he's not super old at age 23. Under TontoK's logic, it would have been "too late" for Adam to continue after the 2014 season (he was 24 years old). And now Adam, for better or worse is going to the Olympics at age 28.

I think his poor performances at U.S. Nationals should not be an indicator of the most he is capable of. There is practice videos and are numerous practice reports of Jason hitting all the the jumps, including quad toe. I saw for myself -- Jason can pretty much hit everything -- and the jumps look lovely. It made his FS struggles all the more infuriating. I think Jason's biggest mistake is that he was far too ambitious with his programs. While I appreciated that he brought two new programs to the table, in hindsight, he might have been ahead perhaps repeating the SP and doing Hamilton as a free skate. I think he got distracted by all the external stuff instead of doing what he can do. I think what we saw at U.S. Nationals would have happened under any coach. It was a mental breakdown, that started with the hard fall on the quad.

As to whether Orser will take him or not -- Orser's taken a lot of different skaters under his wing. Frank Carroll speaks highly of him and his work ethic. He has a reputation among figure skaterse as a hard worker. I think any coach would love to take someone of Jason's talent.

Don't be fooled by the warm and fuzzy demeanor -- Jason wants to get those quads in his programs and he wants to do them with the programs he knows he can skate. As for the U.S. men's field. we'll see. I'll remind people that it wasn't long ago that people were saying Jason wasn't going to get out of juniors and wouldn't get very far as a senior. Well, his coaches, for better or worse, helped him get to the Olympics, several Worlds teams, GP medals and several nationals championships. This is a major setback, for sure, but I expect Jason to be back. And that comeback may actually start two weeks from now.

I'm a fan, so obviously that influences my view on the whole thing. And maybe some of you may be right that Jason might not go much further. But I think it's worth waiting and seeing, cause if nothing else, he's absolutely gorgeous to watch -- he's someone you should see live, if you have the chance.

YMMV. :)

And p.s.: Adam Rippon was with BOrser from like 2008 until like 2011 or so. He trained with Yuna! Adam actually developed the rippon Lutz at TCC.
ohhh.. bolded twice in one evening. It's like Christmas.

I think I just want Jason to get his quads so he can compete with the others because I love his skating. Isn't Frank retiring? I thought he was.
I'm really hopeful that Jason gets it together for 4CC and proves it was just a fluke. He definitely does need some work on the jumps though. One quad isn't going to hold up unless they change the PCS ceiling.

I'm glad Adam is going to the Olympics because I'm a fan of his too. And I was incredibly sad for Ross but I never thought the US team would be anyone but Adam, Nathan and Jason so I think I'm kind of still in shock and just want to run around like a headless chicken "fixing" Jason.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
ancientpeas (since you like being being bolded :biggrin:),

Previous post.

Also I would like to add the following to my post regarding Jason by saying that.
1.) I stuck to the Shibs during the dark ages and people though SIX BILLION TEAMS would past them and that they would never beat Chock and Bates ever again.
2.) I called Bradie Tennell as a dark horse after her summer competitions in August.
3.) And I also stood by Ross for my "want" list when it was totally uncool to do so.


As one poster said recently, "Don't bet against Mrs. P." :laugh:
 
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