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Thread: Team Event: Short Dance Play-By-Play

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekiwi View Post
    You are exposing your actual lack of knowledge of music by calling 'Ed Sheeran's 'Shape of You ' as 'pure' samba rhythm. Which university did you graduate from and what is your major? Yes it has Samba ryhthm to give the 'Ah' count but pure?? Define 'pure'? My son who is a music graduate, Grade 8 pianist, now working on his letters, who also happens to be a huge Ed Sheeran fan in fact attending Ed Sheeran's New Zealand concert for the 2nd time in March (even invite me to join him, tickets still available ), just laughed when I told him your statement. 'Shape of you' is just music with some drum beats added to create the Latin rhythm.
    Actually no. Shape of You is written on a latin/ Caribbean rhythm; and is emphatically sung and the melodically constructed to emphasise that rhythm. I don't think it is a samba rhythm as you understand it; and that aspect of the rhythmic percussion which you understand to be samba might be pasted on, but the fundamental rhythm on which the song is based has its roots in the candomble, which is what tends to define a latin rhythm..

    https://soundsandcolours.com/article...andomble-7067/

    You might find this useful. Especially the Gilberto Gil link, for it is based not the same basic rhythm that Shape of you was written on. As the article points out, it is the rhythm that samba and bossa nova were developed from.

    You might also want to check out the wikipedia entry for Shape of You, and see how popular (esp compared to other Ed Sheehan songs) was on hispanic and latin radio in south and central America and the U.S. It was for example the second most highly played song on Monitor Latino in Argentina for 2017, and at number 1 on the billboard airplay chart for Brazil for 2017. It also charted in the U.S. Latin charts.

    By contrast Sympathy for the devil was written as a song, and then the rhythm pasted by the drummer Charlie Watts. I don't have a problem with Sympathy for the Devil on these grounds. But in terms of how you define what is problematic to you and your understanding of latin rhythms, it is more problematic.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekiwi View Post
    You are the one who said 'I have studied music for many years and I can tell 'Shape of you' is pure Samba rhythm' to give credit to yourself and to appear that you have substantive knowledge which you actually don't. In fact, the 'Latin Origin' argument was made by an anti V/M fan I believe if you have bothered to read the rest of the thread instead of jumping the gun and making false credentials about yourself. I am merely challenging an unsubstantiated statement made by someone else.
    Yes I have studied music for 11 years but, unlike you, I'm not the kind of person who spreads all the details of his life and those of his relatives, especially on a Figure Skating forum. If you like insulting people you don't know by pretending they are liars, it's up to you!
    Better read the ISU short dance communications instead of complaining and pretending to give lessons about P/C SD music.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekiwi View Post
    'Shape of you' is just music with some drum beats added to create the Latin rhythm.
    Creating a latin rhythm by adding drum beats? Really?
    Sounds like you're not even aware Ed Sheeran released different versions and remixes of "Shape of you", among them a "samba remixed version" also known as "Latin remixed version" which is exactly the one used by PC for their short dance...

  4. #34
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    Is female exposure an automatic disqualification?

  5. #35
    Medalist Anyasnake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanadude View Post
    Is female exposure an automatic disqualification?
    50% of the upper body has to be covered - I think that might be 30% for the Latin SD (?)

  6. #36
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    Alain this icekiwi has absolutely no knowledge about anything to do with ice dance and sounds like they have no knowledge of ballroom either if they are unable to recognise an acceptable latino beat. Did they look at the ballroom videos by ballroom dancers on youtube played by Ed Sheeran? Doesn't look like it.
    But they find Santana to be an acceptable rock and roll come chacha and a re-hashed blues purporting to be Rhumba for Hotel California? One must just laugh.
    Quote Originally Posted by alain06fr View Post
    Yes I have studied music for 11 years but, unlike you, I'm not the kind of person who spreads all the details of his life and those of his relatives, especially on a Figure Skating forum. If you like insulting people you don't know by pretending they are liars, it's up to you!
    Better read the ISU short dance communications instead of complaining and pretending to give lessons about P/C SD music.

  7. #37
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    oh my god. for god sakes people, they both are/aren't latin. there get over it. It doesn't even matter anymore because they're both skating to it whether y'all think one is latin and the other not.

  8. #38
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Ice dance has rules that do not particularly have anything to do with ballroom rules and conventions.

    For this year's SD, the reference is ISU Communication 2076

    Junior and Senior: Any number of the following Latin American Rhythms: Cha Cha, Rhumba, Samba, Mambo, Meringue, Salsa, Bachata and any closely related Latin American Rhythms

    Senior: The Pattern Dance Element shall be skated to any of the Latin American Rhythms and must be in the style of the chosen rhythm, with the range of temp: 172 – 180 beats per minute.

    The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Element must be constant. Pattern Dance Type Step Sequence (PSt - as described in the Rule 703, para 4b,iii) must be skated to a different rhythm from the one chosen for the Non Touching Step Sequence. The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Type Step Sequence must be constant
    The music requirements for the rhumba section of the SD are in the pattern dance reference document:
    https://www.ice-dance.com/site/refer...tterns/rhumba/

    Music – Rhumba 4/4
    Tempo – 44 measures of 4 beats per minute; 176 beats per minute
    Pattern Timing – 1 =:15; 2 =:30; 3 =:45; 4 = 1:00
    And for Samba, they are thinking more typically
    https://www.ice-dance.com/site/refer.../silver-samba/
    Music – Samba 2/4
    Tempo – 54 measures of 2 beats per minute
    Note that from an ISU perspective, rhumba and samba do not have the same time signature, nor do they have the same number of beats per minute. If you slow down a samba to rhumba speed, you meet the bpm requirement, but the time signature requirement is dubious.

    If you want to claim a team is doing their required rhumba to a samba, you are making a case for judges to give that team a music deduction, which should result in a complete down level for the rhumba sequence and an overall deduction as well, a devastating penalty, and one seldom given because the majority of the judges must vote to impose it.

    Now "The Shape of You" to which Papadakis and Cizeron do their Rhumba was indeed written in 4/4 time. OTOH The remix version sounds samba to me, too, but I am not a judge, and at least the base rhythm is correct for rhumba, and the whole thing reads Latin to me. It is the second sector of their dance to "Thinking Out Loud" by Ed Sheeran, remastered by Karl Hugo, that does not sound like any recognizable Latin rhythm, despite having bongoes in the background, and their bio does not even tell me what the dancers think it is. Since they are doing their Pattern step to it, I wish it was an easily recognizable Latin rhythm. And it is supposed to sound like 172 – 180 beats per minute. And while the bongo may be in that range, they are skating to the melody, not the beat, (which is a Total timing No No in ice dance, and should affect their timing PCS) and the base Ed Sheeran piece's melody is way slow.

    As to Virtue and Moir, they do their rhumba to a remix version of Hotel California. Hotel California is written in 4/4 too. But to me, the Hotel California version sounds rhumba. So they are ok fine imo for the Rhumba and the Pattern Step Sequence. OTOH The Sympathy for the Devil part just sounds like a mess to me. Their bio claims it is a samba, but I can't see it, maybe the bongo superimposed on it is 2/4, but I cannot stand it. And yes there is a requirement that one of the required rhythms be used for the no touch step, which is what they use it for. The "Cha Cha: Oye Como Va by Tito Puente performed by Santana" is used for a lift and their twizzles, so you are out of the realm of severe penalties (which the judges are not going to impose anyway.) Why they did not just go with Tito Puente version is a mystery to me, but since Tito was happy with Santana I would be more or less ok with it.

    Yes, I would vote for the deductions for both teams, royally cursing Dubreuil and Lauzon who got such fine teams to make such annoying SD's. It is not like the world is not full of tons of Latin American songs to pick from.

    Yes, this is picky picky, but it is annoying to an old time dance fan like me.

    But once URs and flutzes were ok in singles. Some time some team is going to get slammed for a choice like this. Or the ISU will deal with it in the 2018-2019 or 2019-2020 version of the rules. I can only

    Then I won't have to listen to my Latin American born son in law tell me how all the teams totally failed to convey anything of Latin American dance to him after he watches the Team Event in 2022.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 02-13-2018 at 12:51 PM.

  9. #39
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    One correction Doris - VM's Hotel California is not a remix. The Eagles played that version during a concert/live album Hell Freezes Over. If that's considered a remix ok, I just want to get it out there that no one took the original song to a studio and added some beats. The Eagles played it.

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x30pss5

    I do love the fact new pieces of music are used for ice dance, especially Latin.

  10. #40
    The Pyrite Stumble ancientpeas's Avatar
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    I hear latin when I listen to Shape of you.

    And I don't understand the fuss about remixes. How many versions of despacito do you actually want to hear?

  11. #41
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I am fine with The Shape of You as Latin, though others may not be.

    My problems are with Thinking Out Loud and Sympathy for the Devil. I don't think they fit the rules very well, even with bongoes added.

    And a remix done well is fine. But some are really not so hot.

    I also have a personal hatred of the Blah Blah Cha Cha and the Chilly Cha Cha, but I would never say they are not cha Chas. That's just my taste; they are well within the rules.

    And there is lots more modern Latin than Despacito,there are even Latin War horses like Besame mucho, Historia de Amor, Life is a Carnival, a lot of Ricky Martin, Tito Puente, Perez Prado, a lot of Jennifer Lopez, etc


    (And no I do not hope for anyone to use the Macarena...)

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientpeas View Post
    I hear latin when I listen to Shape of you.

    And I don't understand the fuss about remixes. How many versions of despacito do you actually want to hear?
    A lot of people hear Mountains of Things by Tracy Chapman when they listen to Shape of You. Paulinho Da Costa did the percussion on that; and when it comes to Latin rhythms, he WAS the eighties.

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