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- May 4, 2017
Interesting video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7AjF4of300
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7AjF4of300
Why the Quint is Impossible
- Thread starter sinnerspinner
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
Fastest quad rotated vs highest quad air time:
Anna Shcherbakova 4T air time: ~0.5666... seconds, 3.25 total revolutions(half pre-rotation, a quarter of leeway), rotation speed ~6.1 per second
Mikhail Kolyada 4Lz air time: ~0.791666... seconds.
Time for an additional rotation required for Anna Shcherbakova: ~0.1639 seconds.
Which would total 0.7305 seconds, which would be much less than Mikhail Kolyada's 4Lutz air time.
So theoretically, is it actually impossible?
Nathan Chen's rotation speed by the way is pretty close, I think it also peaked at above 6 per second.
Anna Shcherbakova 4T air time: ~0.5666... seconds, 3.25 total revolutions(half pre-rotation, a quarter of leeway), rotation speed ~6.1 per second
Mikhail Kolyada 4Lz air time: ~0.791666... seconds.
Time for an additional rotation required for Anna Shcherbakova: ~0.1639 seconds.
Which would total 0.7305 seconds, which would be much less than Mikhail Kolyada's 4Lutz air time.
So theoretically, is it actually impossible?
Nathan Chen's rotation speed by the way is pretty close, I think it also peaked at above 6 per second.
If any of the current men are gonna do it, that is your guy.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2018
Let's just see him do his quads consistently first.....
I never said the odds were high but he has the right pieces.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
True.....He is IMO, the highest jumper in the Men's field. If he could get his speed of rotation up to Nathan's he'd be my pick to land a quint. Since my name is Quintin, I will name the jump after ME........KABOOM....
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- Jan 28, 2013
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Without getting into precise measurements and such...
It sure looks like he has a TON of hang time on his quad attempts. When he landed that 4Z .. Russian GP, I think... it looked like he was airborne for a long, long time.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
At CoC actually it was, the height I believe was about 83-85 cm which is twice as much as ladies get on their 3lz-s so yes theoretically Kolyada is the man but in reality he has to limit a number of attempts per each practice due to a chronic back pain. So there is a price to pay for launching into stratospheric heights and having to come back on one blade, the forces on the body have to be unreal. So I personally hope the progress in FS will stop here we have enough injuries
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2014
I like Kolyada. But of all the skaters, people are going for him? Seriously? He can't even land the Quads consistently enough. If we're going big, I'm going with Boyang. His Quad Lutz makes me believe I can fly. 
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2017
If someone was to land a quint I'd say someone of the very youngsters, who have done quads since they were practically in diapers.
Aka Stephen Gogolev
Aka Stephen Gogolev
This video is absurd. They talked to one expert on the subject, a few figure skaters, and mostly just showed non-athletic people trying to spin or jump. They talked about rotation speed but not much about air time and height.
Fact is, when people say "that's impossible" they are nearly always wrong. Period.
Fact is, when people say "that's impossible" they are nearly always wrong. Period.
The Oct Quad is impossible.
The thing is, they have different bodies. Smaller bodies tend to rotate faster but have less height. Larger bodies tend to rotate slower but have more height. So you can't just look at the rotation rate of the fastest rotater and combine it with the highest jumper.
They didn't talk about jump air time or height (which are directly correlated with each other) much, but Jim Richards did mention that a quint would need close to 500 RPM (about 7 revolutions per second), and the fastest they've ever measured is around 430-440 RPM (a bit more than 6 revolutions per second). So there is some significant progress that needs to be made.
On the other hand, Jim also made the point that oftentimes it's people's air positions that are the problem. And you can see this when you look at jumps in slow motion -- very few skaters actually have the "ideal" backspin position in the air. Yuzuru for example has both elbows going to the side. Yuna has her left elbow going out to the side. And so forth. So there is certainly room for improvement. Whether or not this and other things are enough to make a quint possible is anybody's guess. I would say quads would need to be a lot more commonplace though -- with a larger base of people knowing how to do them and studying them -- to find out if quints are possible.
Or, figure skating could go down this route: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDG7Z46U5Ko
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
Of course, such a skater doesn't exist yet. But similar jump height and high rotation speed would potentially make quintuple jumps possible. For instance, is there a good reason why Nathan Chen's body type couldn't jump as high as Kolyada? Is there a reason why someone couldn't rotate faster than Nathan Chen? We aren't there yet but I don't think it's an impossibility in the future.
Take Gogolev, for example. His rotation speed is very fast and the height is great for his age. Who knows where he'll be in 5 years?
Which would we rather? Guys going all out to jump quad after quad , having a lot of failures end up on the ice , and suffer nasty injuries continually which will bother them in later life , or settle for successfully landed triples which make for a nicely skated programme where everything works and looks good , and hope fully a lot less stress on the body?
Are we the fans also to blame in our nonstop quest for greater and greater thrills ? Are we not going to be content until we see some genetically enhanced , tiny , all sinew-and -no-bone-structure wonderkid turn five times? Is it worth it?
Occasionally , just occasionally , it would be nice to good skating without quads crashing and burning.
Are we the fans also to blame in our nonstop quest for greater and greater thrills ? Are we not going to be content until we see some genetically enhanced , tiny , all sinew-and -no-bone-structure wonderkid turn five times? Is it worth it?
Occasionally , just occasionally , it would be nice to good skating without quads crashing and burning.
- Joined
- May 4, 2017
Btw has any tried the spinner they mention in the video?
I would guess that if anyone did a quint, it would have to be someone who started training for it very young.
Proof or it didn't happen
I would guess that if anyone did a quint, it would have to be someone who started training for it very young.
Proof or it didn't happen
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
There were rumors that someone did manage to land one last summer I think, in China but obviously, unverifiable (before someone thinks this is some forum somewhere gossip, this came from Oda).
I think it is in nature of humans to try and sooner or later, and especially with evolving equipment which I think is too often left out of this talk when it really should not be, someone will land it. The thing is, it's dangerous. Too dangerous. We have yet to resolve the question of how much impact will the quads have on people of the current era, especially on the younger generation and those like Gogolev, never mind anything else. While I think that the responsibility for these things is shared between the ISU and the athlete himself + his team, I think in this case ISU needs to keep its foot down and simply say no. Risks are too high. Some will keep trying because it's human nature but at least then the responsibility is on them.
Dangerous that one as well but we'll probably see it. Hanyu wants to do it, so knock on wood, if he's healthy, I am sure he'll go for it. He didn't fiddle with those in practice for nothing and he's said he wants it. Honestly that thing is probably safer for him than the 4Lz
I think it is in nature of humans to try and sooner or later, and especially with evolving equipment which I think is too often left out of this talk when it really should not be, someone will land it. The thing is, it's dangerous. Too dangerous. We have yet to resolve the question of how much impact will the quads have on people of the current era, especially on the younger generation and those like Gogolev, never mind anything else. While I think that the responsibility for these things is shared between the ISU and the athlete himself + his team, I think in this case ISU needs to keep its foot down and simply say no. Risks are too high. Some will keep trying because it's human nature but at least then the responsibility is on them.
Dangerous that one as well but we'll probably see it. Hanyu wants to do it, so knock on wood, if he's healthy, I am sure he'll go for it. He didn't fiddle with those in practice for nothing and he's said he wants it. Honestly that thing is probably safer for him than the 4Lz
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