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Thread: Triple Axel launches Nagasu into history

  1. #76
    Bona Fide Member mskater93's Avatar
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    I'm usually a Nagasu microscope checker. That 3A was VERY clean. She stayed high on her blade through the exit which is what made the exit look wobbly-ish/ possibly short to some. The 3T was closer to < on the back of the combo

  2. #77
    Bona Fide Member LRK's Avatar
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    I'm a bit late to the party, but I just want to congratulate Mirai on her achievement, and hope she will be able to replicate it in the individual event. What a wonderful validation for all her efforts and perseverence.

    Note: Unfortunately for me, I missed the moment live, as my TV broadcast chose the moment she took her opening pose to freeze up, and by the time I'd got it back on, it was into her program, and I didn't know at all what I'd missed. "She lands another jump", says the commentators, and I'm all "What 'another jump'?! Has she landed the 3A or not?!" Very frustrating.

  3. #78
    Rinkside
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    I'm recording everything, so I have to actively avoid any news updates on my phone. Her triple axel was spoiled when I checked my phone before going to work and I was pretty bummed because it would have been amazing to watch her land it without knowing beforehand.

    Also, my coworkers know I skate so they've been watching, too! Some of them recognized 'triple axel' and understood that Mirai had done something very special. One asked me if it was too late for me to make it to the Olympics.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by alvina9894 View Post
    Sorry but seriously you're ratifying the rotation of a jump with two STATIC photos? And one before takeoff and the other after landing - which clearly overestimates the jump by at least one frame.

    No offense to Mirai I'm really happy for her to prove herself on the Olympic ice, but you really need at least a gif to ratify jump rotations
    Um if you want to make a gif, go ahead. Putting a composite image of the jump takeoff and landing is much less work and has enough explanatory power.

    The composite image establishes two things:

    1. The direction of travel of the jump, i.e. the line against which the landing rotation is measured.
    2. The amount of rotation of the skate when it touched the ice.

    Now if you think gif's are better, go for it. But how is a gif different than showing a video in slow motion and then going "see! that was rotated!" or "see! that was under-rotated!"? It doesn't really *show* anything necessarily unless you provide the proper context, which a composite image does. It's basically data without information.

    The frame before the one I used, Mirai still hasn't touched down -- or at least, it certainly seems to me like it hasn't touched the ice yet. You can choose either the one where she's already touched down or the one where she's still in the air -- the actual landing is somewhere in the middle. So a higher-FPS video is better, but I haven't found one. So if you'd like to provide one, go ahead.

  5. #80
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    ^ I believe largeman is looking at the blades in those pictures while you use the blue line you drew to indicate the direction of the jump. I think both of you are correct.

  6. #81
    On the Ice Mathman's Avatar
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    As I understand Largeman's point, it is that the line should not be drawn from the point at which her blade leaves the ice, but rather from the direction of her blade when she begins the pre-rotation on the ice. This may seem like cheating, but it is how Axels are done. You could compare Mirai's triple Axel with some triple Axels done by men, such as Evan Lysacek for instance, which were always regarded as OK despite the fact that the first 180 degrees of the required 1215 is actually done before the skater is airborne.

    They are basically doing a triple Salchow with a weird entrance -- except that a Salchow is also done with a lot of pre-rotation. That is what I have gotten out of the many discussions of this issue, anyway. (?)

  7. #82
    Tripping on the Podium champs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    As I understand Largeman's point, it is that the line should not be drawn from the point at which her blade leaves the ice, but rather from the direction of her blade when she begins the pre-rotation on the ice.
    The exact point of contact between the blade and the ice from which to draw that straight line as the takeoff point remains "almost" the same whether you choose the moment the prerotation starts at or the moment the blade leaves the ice at, since during the prerotation the left foot doesn't skid. The bolded part in largeman's earlier post:
    Quote Originally Posted by largeman View Post
    The thing is, you do not draw that line starting from the point where her blade leaves the ice (in your words, the last frame where she was still on the ice)... Rather, you draw the line in the direction she steps into the jump, which is 90 degrees earlier. So the correct line is actually perpendicular to the line you are drawing, and a fully rotated landing would mean her blade is facing our right-hand direction.
    is wrong, as the line drawn by Vanshilar and the line drawn by largeman basically coinside.

  8. #83
    choice beef largeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by champs View Post
    The exact point of contact between the blade and the ice from which to draw that straight line as the takeoff point remains "almost" the same whether you choose the moment the prerotation starts at or the moment the blade leaves the ice at, since during the prerotation the left foot doesn't skid. The bolded part in largeman's earlier post:

    is wrong, as the line drawn by Vanshilar and the line drawn by largeman basically coinside.
    Thanks... I guess there was confusion among us when visualizing and describing the "line"/direction against which we evaluate the landing. Looking at the actual line in Vanshilar's later image, I agree that we are in fact in agreement.

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